Hi i am researching small breed dogs trying to find something suitable for my 12yr old son to show it must be very friendly with other dogs and easy to handle as my dogs are all large breeds he can not walk or train properly he would also like to try agility in the future not necessarily compete but just for fun, he will be doing general training every week as well as ring craft and he will be walking his own dog with me daily.

could you help with suggestions?

so far i have been interested in pugs which sound great but it is a lot of money on the end of his lead and if he every walked without me i would be worried for his safety we live in a village so walks can be fairly remote.

the border terrier sounds quiet good but don't know if it would be trusted off lead over the fields?

we are going to a show on Sunday and will be talking to as many people as possible but would like some suggestions as where to start.

Are you looking for very small dogs?

IMO and IME of having a younger brother following me in the showing, my parents did think about getting him a smaller dog as he was always a small lad and the setters were quite strong.  In the end someone mentiond a good point, would he still want a small dog in afew years and his abit bigger?  Well the nswer to that was "no" so he has always, sinc ethe age of 6, shown setters and done very well (now having won his handling class two years on the trot at crufts!) His now 18, over 6 ft and if my parents had got him a small dog I would liek to think it would still be with us and he doesn't have an interest in small dogs at all!

Hhow about thinking about something easy to train, bidable and would be abit more "robust" with your own dogs but is good in agility such as a border collie?  Aussie shepherd? Toller?  or even something like a boxer? if you like the more bull breed types?

If you want to go really small how about a Papillon? They are good at agility, good to train, smart, fun and sociable. Two downsides might be robustness and the fur, you can get short-haired ones.. But they are fab little dogs.

My next thought is a Shetland sheepdog: bright, trainable etc..If the breeding is sound they should not be nervous. Again long coat but may prove more robust.

Also think Border Terrier is a nice idea, just think terriers can be, though not always, more of a training challenge. 

Last thought is small poodle. highly intelligent, trainable and robust and if clipped same length all over look very smart, racy animals (sorry poodle people I'm not a fan of the more ornate trims, but each to their own).

Border terrier i think would do him great, hardy little sods and they can do agility. Allthough do take in mind the above post would he want a little terrier type in a fews years? What about a heeler, lancashire ones used to be very popular at my old ringcraft. Beagle, Trying to think of something smallish that can do agility and withstand bashings from the bullies. but i think a border terrier i love there little faces, only small dog i think id ever get.

Hi, I would personaly get him a Border Collie, i know you said a small breed but Collies are medium so not to big. My parents got me a Border Collie dog when i was 11, he was fantastic, so clever and easy to train, very loyal, great off lead, and very active so he could keep up with me all day long his favourite game being football which made me very popular with the boys who thought he was cool lol, and if socialised properly they are great with other dogs, and totally fantastic at agility, beautiful dogs, perfect for a 12 year old boy IMO.

Good luck :)                                            

so far i have been interested in pugs which sound great but it is a lot of money on the end of his lead and if he every walked without me i would be worried for his safety we live in a village so walks can be fairly remote.

What about a small rescue dog?  You mentioned about money, and pure bred dogs are a lot more money than a rescue, although you can do more with them (ie conformation).  With a pure bred dog, with all relivant health clearances, shown parents, from a reputable breeder, are going to cost more money anyways.  And I find too, the smaller the dog, the more money they cost.  (at least here anyways)

Good luck in finding a suitable breed.  Maybe ask your son what breeds he is interested in?  Then make a list, and see what you both can come to a conclusion too.  You wouldnt want to get him a dog, that he doesnt care for the breed. 

You could have a look at this:

http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_adoption_information/choosing_the_right_dog.html

HTH

What about a Sheltie? A well bred one should be confident and intelligent. Have been thinking about smaller dogs re my little brother (13 yrs) and him wanting a dog. But it depends on what sort of training, and how much coat care etc you\ he wants. Is it just for conformation, or is it for agility\ ob too?

I don't actually know a huge amount about shelties - I would have thought that being a herding breed they would be more inclined to stick close? Can't remember if there are any Sheltie people on here?

To be honest I am not sure small dogs are suitable for children to work with at all, however good a child may be the are very energetic and accidents will happen. IMO a medium to small large would be a much better choice particularly as a 12 or 14 year old boy would probably not wish to be seen with a pug. A border Terrier may be ok but still a bit small should it be tripped over.

Just a word of caution. Look for a breed that's in the same group as your own, otherwise you could find yourself having to go to champ shows on 2 different days.

Thanks for all you replies so far

i will try to go through each dog objectively this is not my opinion on the look of the dog but trying to look at them from a young boys perception.  will he still like the dog when is mates could be taking the p**.

poodle - a bit of a girlie dog ?

papillion - very girlie?

Toller - couldn't find any info and don't know what they look like so cant comment.

Lancashire Heeler - cant find much info so not sure on that one ?

Sheltie - only shelties i have met which is not to many have been a bit snappy? more infor appreciated.

Beagle - have read a lot about these very cute lovely nature but not to good off lead when on a sent?

Aussie - i love them need more info have read about them but would like to hear from owners regarding sutibility with young kids (4/5 yr old brothers)

Border collie - had them years ago was my first dog when i left home can be very good need lots of exercisers and stimulation or are destructive so he would have to work hard with it and be very committed (not a bad thing) ?

Boxer - love them but how strong would it be on a lead ? (12 yr old not very big ATM)

there is no offense intended to any owners for my negatives but want to make the right choice will be with us for a very long time.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

saxon   very good point hadn't thought of that. looking like a Boxer then?

Aussies are pastoral so if you like them most shows are on the same day, just one champ thats isn't!

Aussies are good with children if brought from the right breeder.  The breeder of one of our aussies has young children herself who the pups are socilised with! 

The toller sorry is Nova Scotia Duck tolling ret, but of course is a gundog so possibly not the right choice. :)

Apart from the fact that they are gundogs, so would be shown on a different day to your own breed, what about a Golden Retriever (not that I'm biased at all)? A well bred Goldie will be friendly with all and sundry, eager to please and many, including my own, enjoy and do well at agility. I don't think a young boy would be embarrassed to be seen with one. A bitch would be slightly smaller than a male although neither are really huge.

I have 2 Aussies, along with my 5 Ridgebacks.  Aussies are robust enough and quick enough to be able to deal with playing with the RRs.  They are similar to Collies in that they need something to do, so agility (when old enough) would be great.  And there are lots of classes for them now.  Both of my Aussies are great with children, tho' I don't have any of my own.  They need good socialising and training, and learn very quickly.  And, of course, the range of colours is just beautiful.  I have a red tri and a red merle (with blue eyes) - just stunning, and very showy.

But be careful where you buy - as with any breed.  Do your homework, visit the shows and talk to people.

A poodle sounds ideal. My boys not a girlie dog at all quite often I get teenage lads chatting to me about him, and admiring him. Poodles can be trimmed however you like short all over or  long with a beard , clipped or unclipped. Need regular attention to coat though. Very trainable and great fun, quite excitable but thats good for agility. Oh, just  to add though in show trim they're quite a bit of work. Sorry not right group though.

Hi Benson,
yes guess Poodles and Papillon could be seen as girlie.

I had a sheltie as a kid, I got him when I was 10. Most fantastic dog a real friend. He learned to play football with us and used to push it round the garden at top speed with his nose. He went everywhere we did, on walks etc.. I trained him to walk on the lead myself- I seem to recall this was a rather hit and miss affair where I just pulled him and said "come on" and he picked it up very quickly. He never had any formal training, he learned on the job. On car journeys rather than staying in the boot area he used to climb over and perch, like a parrot, on the back of the back seat so that his nose was level with us kids. It was an incredible balancing feat but he just so obviously wanted to be part of the gang.

I hear what you say about the snappiness and obviously a good breeder would be key, however, when sound, they are great dogs for kids. I did meet a sheltie owner once in East Sussex out on the forest, and her dogs were very sound, confident and had good bone. Not too small either. I seem to recall she said they were from the Isle of Sheppey. 

Last idea: min Schnauzer- robust, easy to train. Looks like a terrier but not as wilful or punchy.

Look at the Cesky Terrier - my neighbour has them, very easy going with other dogs, several do very well in junior handling. They also do agility and obedience (much more trainable than my Patterdales!) Small, but still 'proper terriers' - they look really scruffy when they are running across the field, but can soon be made smart for the show ring.

Pedlee  goldens do seem a bit calmer than a collie so could be good, but how strong could they be if something takes their interest, would he be able to hold it or do they not tend to bother pulling. ( i know training is the key) my bullies mostly walk very well on lead but when they say they are going that way they just take you its your weight against their will, weight, and power.

and my son does like the look of them.

totally agree with ice queen- he's twelve now but within the dogs lifetime he'll be an adult. dunno how your sons built but if he ends up a 6 foot rugby player can you see him with a toy breed?

many many kids (younger than your son) show bigger breeds (saw at least 4 kids at crufts with rotties, beautifully handled i would add)

alternatively maybe go for something like a bulldog, a frenchie or a boston?

Goldens can be very strong & also quite wilful(I've a friend who has bred them since the 1950s)

Why not go to a few shows & let your son draw up a short list &  see what he comes up with. I bought my first dog when I was 8 & she was a German Shepherd & I'm only 5 foot 2 now 50 years later ! One  of the top GSD handlers in the UK started when he was under 12 & is still handling & breeding GSDs today

What ever breed you chose please go down the dog training route & join the YKC lots of different thing for him to do with the YKC. There are some very good young handlers in Obedience & Agility with a variety of breeds(& non breeds) from 6 to 24 !

Just to add, my son shot up from 5ft and skinny at 12yrs to 5ft 10" and much stronger at 14yrs thanks to puberty.

So whatever you think he would be ok with size wise now - your son will be growing MASSIVELY in the next couple of years.

What about a cavalier? Super friendly, great family dog, Ive know some that have done agility and obedience, and not too big.  My eldest (the 14yr old) adores our Alfie.

lol well his 17 yr old brother is 6.7 i dont think he will make that big but probably 6.1 as i am 5.10 hubby 6ft so wont be small.

i am at a show tomorrow so will be talking to every one there and any shows i can get to this year i will probably not be getting anything this side of xmas want to do as much research as poss he can practice with my pup for now you never know he may be able to cope with them next year? a year is a long time and a lot of growing at this age?

i think i will start him off with training my rottie as she knows how to behave and will teach him alot. (ob not show)

I'd be another Border Terrier and a breed that I think a 12 year old boy wouldn't mind having on the other end of the lead, he might feel a bit conscious with a Papillon or such on the other end :)

Thats sounds like a good idea!  It will also be of help for him to learn so he can teach a new puppy easier.  Also waiting a year with him still training your rottie you might find he will loose interest in the showing and go off with other things.  I have seen so many lads start training and then give up even though the parents continue because they loose interest in it and want to do other things.  They also very rarely come back into it whereas girls will come in and out of it and then back in.  (But thats just from my observations)

Your son sounds like my brother, small and weedy but with tall parents so likely to grow tall!  My bother was always a little shirmpling in the family untill he reached 15/16 then overnight he became 6"2!!!!! He has only ever shown boxers, setters and aussies as his main dogs (although has handled small dogs now and again at the odd shows!)

Now I can't call him shrimpling :(  I have to look upto the little "big" bro!

A poodle girlie.Not at all.The first of my puppies leaves for his new home on Monday as a 50th birthday pressie for his wife but he was the one who picked it because"he wants to walk it as well"and my last litter a puppy was carried out of my door by a big burley rugby player for his tiny little wife.
So easy to train and loads of fun but the down side is the regular grooming and once hooked 1 poodle is never enough.

yes but they are buying for their wifes not their sons

i think they are sweet but dont think my son see them that way and my hubby would def not walk it.

Cocker spaniels make excellent agility dogs and are good for Junior handling/showing too.  They are not a bit girlie, great fun, active and easily trained.  I know a few people with boxers and they are incredibly powerful dogs, may just be because most of the ones I know are male, but I know I couldn't handle one. (but then I am only 5'..... LOL)

At the show I am associated with we have a young lad show a Bloodhound, not easy but in the six months between our last two shows the lad has learned so much and at the last show won best junior handler and it was well deserved. My own breed seem idea for handling and working with children but, they are not in the correct group and they can be difficult off lead unless well trained.

What about a Beagle?

Or some of the smaller Bull Breeds, like a Pug, French Bulldog or Boston Terrier?

Just to add -don't forget that if a smaller dog is to mix with your large ones, it must be suitable for THAT as well. My Papillons all get on well with my Malinois, but I would NEVER allow them all alone together or playing together as all it takes is one paw put wrong and a small dog could be seriously injured or even killed -just in normal play. Hence I have little and large separated unless supervised.

LOL my dad doesn't want another dog if it isn't a poodle because he loves their intelligent characters and stunning looks.  I quite like rotties, are they for boys only? :-) Good luck whatever breed your son decides on, all the breeds suggested are great. Bet he'll do really well. edit, oh thats a great idea starting him with your rott.

lol def not my rottie is a mummys baby wont go with any one else with five sons she is my girlie girl.

MollMoo

my worry with these breeds are that he will want at some point to walk with out me and these are a lot of money if some young thugs decide they could make a quick buk by taking it from him

Beagle is one i will be looking for tomorrow  also the spaniels.

and will definatly be getting cuddles from the goldens

>my worry with these breeds are that he will want at some point to walk with out me and these are a lot of money if some young thugs decide they could make a quick buk by taking it from him

Thi is highly unlikely!  You will have to be able to let them out on their own without you sometimes (we are talking though once puppy is trainned and if your not looking for a pup for another year, then a year on that your son will be 14/15.  It couold also happen with any pedigree dog!

Re: French bulldogs

I may get shot for saying this :) but frenchies are deffo not the most active little creatures. They will play happily all day in the garden if there is shade, alone or preferably with you! but are not ones capable of trekking, long walks, high activity etc. They 'stroll' beautifully though!! They do suffer from the heat terribly. I can't walk my puppyboy in the heat of the day at all, only early mornings and the cool of the evenings. Often a quick trip in the car has him panting like anything,. We tend not to take him out at all in the heat unless we take ice packs and a wet towel!

I have seen pics of frenchies doing agility so it can be done :-D but probably better with a better bred and lighter coloured one than my little chappie.

I would  say they are ideal for older and less active/able people ( much like OH and myself lol)

I think you are right to worry about thugs and these types of dogs depending on your area. There have been potential and actual thefts around here :(

Have to say OH is nearly 6' and is very proud walking Louis.....:-D

Japanese Shiba Inu are lovely small to medium dogs, easy coat care as well.  Not sure if they would be good for agility as some asian breeds can be a little stubborn but they can also be aloof with strangers so wouldn't want to walk away with some random thug.  In general a very smart looking little dog.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/163[url=][/url]

> I think you are right to worry about thugs and these types of dogs depending on your area. There have been potential and actual thefts around here :-(
>

gotta disagree with you if he's walking a frenchie...

1) they are not that well known so unless its a targeting thief (in which case you've got trouble anyway) he'll prob have no bother

and

2) the many frenchies i've known have had the hearts of lions and are surprisingly strong and athletic (i love the superman jump they do!) and would not let themselves be taken from their (no doubt) protesting owner without a fight.

3) they might be less popular for a theft as many (foolish) people are not keen on their appearance

they are sweet, very funny, very loyal, have big dog personalities in handy sized frames, easy to care for and are a breed i am determined to have one day.

benson, i'd also say that the frenchies i knew all lived very happily in a household with both bullmastiffs and rotties.

> my worry with these breeds are that he will want at some point to walk with out me and these are a lot of money if some young thugs decide they could make a quick buk by taking it from him

I think you are quite right to worry about that - I had 2 young girls at my door the other night at 10.30pm.  they were no older than 13 and told me they were dog walkers wanting to take my dog out as they were insistent I had a staffy (which I do).  There has been quite a lot of publicity in the national press about dog fighting in Dundee recently and it freaked me out a bit that people were coming to the door asking for my dog.  the 2 girls are not from good families and there is a lot of substance misuse going on so I have been especially wary when walking her since that and not letting her come to the door with me when it rings.

Anyway to keep to the point of the thread, how about a staffy - cute, compact, will adore your son for life and not embarrassing to have on the lead.  If your son is going to be showing the dog he can be an ambassador for the breed.  a young person in a hoody with a well behaved obedient staffy - 2 stereotypes shattered in one sitting. lol

Another word of caution. Unless you are an experienced groomer, avoid anything that needs too much stripping and trimmimg.

i have a toy poodle and my brother (26) loves taken him for walks( my brother walks everywhere) so would come and get him for company, in the begining he used to say he is a bit of a girlie dog, then one day he came back and said you know something this dog is a girl magnet! of course now he has his girlfriend and a little baby but he still comes and takes the dog with him if they are going for a walk.

thing is thats a grown man not a self consious teenager

i dont mean to offend you but i am curious do they have to have the big puffy hair do for showing? cos that realy isn't macho

The Pom poms etc are to cover vital organs and joints to keep them warm when working in water.

The extra poofiness is because thats whats happend to make them flashy in the show ring!

so for him to do well in the show ring the dog would need to be pom pomed and poofie then?

They dont have to have all the hair for showing, there's no rule against it but they do get placed better in show trim.  However there has been one or two dogs made up (to a champion) in pet trim.

Yes!  Which he isn't going to want in the street or an agility corse! :)

Hense why your collie type dogs might be better as they arn't poofy and just need a little trimming to keep tidy! :)

i think poodle is out.

what about the ess or welsh ss ? he likes the look of them they seem good with kids?

i love the collie and would suit him as easy to train and excellent agility but could be a bit mad on my old rottie.  

it would be nice to get something with energy to work and play with him but calm enough to fit in with my other dogs.

ESS and WSS are a good idea.  Good with children but can be quite hyper.  We do have two young children working a WSS at the moment, she is so good with them, but naughty at the same time!  They are doing well and are younger then your son.  Woudl fit in with the bigger breeds, but as pointed out if you compete at champshows they will always be on a different day!

What about something a wee bit different - a Finnish lapphund. (I would suggest Swedish Lapphund but there is no one breeding currently and they are still in Import register so harder to get classes). Very versatile, looks good - not girly - although coated they don't need huge amounts of fussy grooming, just regular brushing, and good with kids. They are in Pastoral group so usually on same day as working at shows. A medium sized dog too so if he grows tall he wont feel daft - my OH is 6ft 2 and used to show our Swedish Lapphund which is slightly smaller.