Hi

My 8 month old cavalier kings charles spaniel was playing with a empty carton, he was eating bits of it, so i gently asked him for it, by saying mine mine, he started growling really deeply so i stoped the growling by saying no in a firm voice, he stoped,

then i tried to take it and he started growling again real deep, as i took it he went balistic, barked growled and bit my hand so hard that its near bleeding.. He has never bit me ever or even tried to bite anyone, he is friendly with everyone loves to play with everyone,and has been castrated.....

He has growled before when we take what does not belong to him, or move him from sofa to his bed but we manage to stop the growling, but this time the growling didnt stop and he turned on me his owner and bit me so hard....... this is very upsetting please help..... :(

we have been training and we still go...

I cant believe how his face turned so nasty and totally changed he went mad on me totally mad.......  like those videos you see on you tube or tv programmes of mad dogs...

Please can someone help is this normal cavalier behaviour? or spaniel behaviour?

I dont want this to go further need to stop it now as he may bite a outsider :(

No it certainly isn't normal Cavalier behaviour, in fact quite the opposite :-(
I would take him along to the vet first of all just to make sure there is no medical reason for his behaviour and then get along to some training classes with him.

I wish you luck.

Hiya,
Let me start by saying I'm no expert, but I did have the same with my bitch, so I can tell you what worked for me.
OK firstly, have you ever given your dog chicken wings? you see how they just CRUNCH through the bone? Well, our dogs COULD do that to our hands, but they choose not to. I know what a SHOCK you got, but if there's no blood, it wasn't a real bite...
Anyway, this possessive, guarding, territorial behaviour is all about who's in charge, and it's got to be YOU!
So don't panic, but start doing really firm training for Drop, Leave, Back, Away, Down, and practise it by giving the dog something it's not overly interested in - not food, perhaps a toy he's losing interest in, and offer a small tasty treat in return, once the dog is well away from the toy and in a good Sit paying attention to you.
The only way to train this is by boring repetition, daily, but you've got to keep it interesting for the dog, so use a firm positive tone of voice.
"i gently asked him for it, by saying mine mine"
Don't ASK him to do anything - YOU are in charge, and you TELL him what to do.
Keep posting about your progress, hth
Oh yes, and don't let the dog upstairs, on the sofa or on the bed, and put him in his bed/crate at your mealtimes.
And finally, don't say "mine" until you've got it!

This is the behaviour of a dog who is guarding what he thinks is his and at 8 months he is probably entering the Kevin stage, teenagers of all species are challenging.  

EMERGENCY MEASURES
First of all you need to STOP stopping him growl - the growl is his warning to you.  Remove that and he will have no choice but to bite without warning.

Secondly, try swapping whatever he has for something really tasty, then he'll have no reason to challenge you. 

Personally, I wouldn't allow him on the sofa in the first place, for some dogs using the sofa can be troublesome as you have found out ;)

It sounds as if he hasn't learned to INHIBIT his bite :(  he will only learn this if you and your family teach him.
You can find information on this here
http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

Please get him checked by the vet, he may have a health problem,  if he is clear, get a referral for a registered behaviourist who can help you get through what may simply be a challenging teenage phase.

EMERGENCY MEASURES
First of all you need to STOP stopping him growl - the growl is his warning to you.  Remove that and he will have no choice but to bite without warning

Hiya

DO you mean by the above we should let him growl then?
please can you explain i dont understand this bit

oh god

so what do you suggest are you a cavalier owner? if so what exactly should their temperment be like as after reading so much on the web i am really confused now...

should i ring the breeder ask him for advice?

when we got Gizzy we asked the breeder of any issues the parents have etc etc we even saw both parents as they are the breeders family dogs..... he said all was fine the dogs looked happy aswell.....

you know after it happend Gizzy would not stop following me about the whole day........ I know it doesnt excuse what he did but do you think he has forgotten? Do you think he realised it was bad? as he got a good telling off....... and i rejected him all day after that........ he just carried on following me then finally fell asleep near me....

A dog's growl is a warning that he's unhappy about something. If the growl doesn't work, then he'll bite (as you've found out :-(). If you simply stop him growling then he has no option but to go straight to the bite, missing out the warning stage.

So you need to work out why he's growling and remove the need. Then he won't growl or bite.

Dill is right -by telling a dog off for growling you are taking away all the chances of waning you they are not happy. The only option then left is to bite. Always listen to a growl and take notice of it, and read the article suggested. The best option is always to teach a dog to swap -give him something nicer in exchange for what is being chewed. By just taking the item away, you could make tings worse (the dog learns he HAS to guard his toys and food as they are often taken away forcefully), by swapping for something nicer you will get a dog that happily will give up anything as they know it will be worth it. Keep a supply of cut up hot dogs or sausages (or sliced ham, turkey anything human grade) in the fridge for such occasions. You can also easily practice this any time. Give the dog a boring toy or a treat that isn't very interesting, such as a hard chew stick, and offer a MUCH better treat, hand it over and when he drops the first, take it away and praise.

Don't ASK him to do anything - YOU are in charge, and you TELL him what to do.
Keep posting about your progress, hth
Oh yes, and don't let the dog upstairs, on the sofa or on the bed, and put him in his bed/crate at your mealtimes.
And finally, don't say "mine" until you've got it!

This is old school, thoughts from the 1940's, we now know it doesn't work like this. We are not the pack leader, we are humans and dogs are dogs and we are never in the same pack -there is no need to be forceful, or stopping the dog from sleeping on the bed and similar. We can control what the dog does and still be NICE about it. :) Read here what my trainer says, she's just one of many:
http://www.teamworktraining.co.uk/approach.asp

Ditto gumi no expert. Whistler went fo me once when I tried to move his dog bowl, he was about 4 -5 months old. I said v. loudly "No" and picked the damn thing up, put it down again, same again he growled, no again and lifted it up again, after a while he sat quiet when I put it down and has been ok since.
Jake is OH's dog (so dont go on at me!!) he growled and curled his lip (BC) OH walloped him one said no way and Jake was so shocked he never did it again.
Neither dog is allowed on the sofa or chair unless invited up on our laps, if left alone in the room when we come back in they are always on the floor.
My OH's breeder said to growl at the dog to show him who is boss, and when Jake gets really loud OH growls and dog cannot meet his eye and shuts up.
I think you need to see which way works for you. I have children around (Great nieces 4 &2) so i must have a safe dog.
Ditto comments its the Kevin stage, reinforce you are the dog I am the owner and you will do as you are told.
Jake growled to show us not to get near his food, OH pushed his weight around, I preferred to take what Whistler was possesive of and kept on taking it and putting it back to prove I could do it and nothing he warned me about was going to stop me until he shut up being naughty.

ok so let me get this into order

1. we let him growl?  or we dont let him growl???  so when we let him growl he is having his way? how does swapping for something else teach him obediance No means no etc (The vet said growling is bad it shows anger and he should Never be angry or growl at us his family. Im so confused)

2. training with treats and toys drop take give leave swap etc( this i understand and i will sit with family today and discuss the importance of this)

3. does anyone think he has a issue with possesiveness over toys and food if he is always growling do you think he thinks we take everything of him he likes?

4. he has so many toys and the run of the whole house the more freedom we give him the less naughty he is, but then i think we are just scared he will protest as below....

5. we stoped him from coming into kitchen when we eat and he pooped in the lounge on monday to piss us of........   he fights us back with pooing in the lounge and peeing in there when he is not allowed in kitchen ...... we stoped him as he has started to beg and bark when we eat even though he has had his dinner and treats........

6. last week he growled at the vet this has happened twice in last few weeks now..........   normally he loves the vets

7. he has developed bad breath since last week, we have got his breath tablets, and have been brushing him regulary...... its kinda stopped but suddenly re appears....

8. do you think he is unwell hence the bad behavour recently???

Yes but...dogs are social creatures and they do have hierarchies and some are more driven, ambitious characters than others. So, it makes sense to me, at least, that more driven characters might need clearer and firmer boundaries, especially in their early years, than less driven types who won't given an inch,try to take a mile. Teamwork is great but someone still needs to lead and to set the ground rules.

Anyway, I digress, I think that this chap is behaving in an unusual way for his breed, unless of course he happens to be a very driven male, and so a vet should be first port of call swiftly followed by a visit from a behaviourist.

ok so let me get this into order

1. we let him growl?  or we dont let him growl???  so when we let him growl he is having his way? how does swapping for something else teach him obediance No means no etc (The vet said growling is bad it shows anger and he should Never be angry or growl at us his family. Im so confused)

2. training with treats and toys drop take give leave swap etc( this i understand and i will sit with family today and discuss the importance of this)

3. does anyone think he has a issue with possesiveness over toys and food if he is always growling do you think he thinks we take everything of him he likes?

4. he has so many toys and the run of the whole house the more freedom we give him the less naughty he is, but then i think we are just scared he will protest as below....

5. we stoped him from coming into kitchen when we eat and he pooped in the lounge on monday to piss us of........   he fights us back with pooing in the lounge and peeing in there when he is not allowed in kitchen ...... we stoped him as he has started to beg and bark when we eat even though he has had his dinner and treats........

6. last week he growled at the vet this has happened twice in last few weeks now..........   normally he loves the vets

7. he has developed bad breath since last week, we have got his breath tablets, and have been brushing him regulary...... its kinda stopped but suddenly re appears....

8. do you think he is unwell hence the bad behavour recently???

Ive had Cavaliers for ten years, and Ive never had a cavalier thats done that.  However, it sounds more like possession issues than a breed issue, after all any dog can growl and say 'nope Im not giving that up' no matter what breed.

I have never ever tried to take anything off a dog, without having something to swap it for.  Be it sock, a piece of lego, a bowl, or one of their toys, if Ive needed whatever they have (or its dangerous) then Ive got a tasty treat, or in desperation cheese or something from the fridge and swapped it.  My rule is Ive got to find something thats higher up than whatever they have.  Cavaliers are generally food orientated so even a tiny tiny piece of cheese is better than most things. I also never bother my dog when he has a chew or food, its his, and I dont want him to think hes got to protect it.  I offer the treat and say 'leave' and when they drop the object, I give the treat and then pick up the object. So eventually you have the 'leave' command, (but he always gets the treat for leaving the object).

Have you tried to take things off your Cavvie before?  If your dog really prizes the object/s and you keep taking them off your dog then your dog is going to escalate trying to keep it, then it progresses onto when they are eating out of their own bowl etc.  Your dog wont see the reason why you want the object, they just think that you are going to remove it everytime you see them with something. 

Same reason why I dont understand when people want to take their dogs bowl away when they are eating and think its a good thing that their dog tolerates it.  I wouldnt like my food plate taken away all the time, Id start to protect things too.

I think I wrote my bit wrong I wanted to move Whistlers bowl he was in the way, then he growled, then I had to do something.
Re Jake the breeder advised to take his bowl away or make him wait for his food until "released by word" to eat. I thought it made a btter behaved dog, if a child got near their food bowls when they were younger I am not totally sure that they would not have snapped at them. Now as young adults I know the dogs are totally trust worthy, its the kids that aren't especially the 2 year old. And no we feed the dogs in privacy the children do not go in the kitchen when the dogs are being fed, but thats to give the dogs space and its the way their mum feeds their dog at home. The children do not live with us but they do visit if mum needs a rest. (New baby 10:15 last night!!)

Alfieshmalfie,

I agree with you that any dog can growl and refuse to give things up but I think generally that we would be more surprised to hear of a Cavalier following up with a bite, than some other breeds. However, I completely accept that you can get strong, driven personalities in any breed and if there is nothing medical amiss it sounds as though this might be the case.

I also agree that if you persistantly take things away from any pup with an ounce of vim, without offering an exchange, at some point they may well go into guard mode, from their point of view it makes sense. I think it is always best to teach youngsters to give up items by offering an exchange.  

I used to hold my dogs chews for him when he was very little, so that he chewed and got cuddles at the same time. Now he brings his chews to me.

In the case of the OP (if it was my Cav) I would loop the lead around the head and lead the dog out of the room briskly for some 'time out', remove the object and when the dog returns say " too bad".
I find cavaliers the most loving kind little dogs who would really do anything to please you and make you love them, this dog's behaviour is rather skewed and I am sure the little one just needs to know these actions are really making you annoyed with him.
All my cavaliers sleep on the sofas, bed or anywhere they like ...as long as I say it's ok.
I must admit if any of mine dared to growl at me I would be enraged and show it!!

I do have a food guarding cavalier youngster (approx 6 months) and she will growl at the others but only tried it with me once. The speed with which the object was removed and she was bundled out of the room, with me growling much louder than her, really had an effect. Mine know that if they growl at me... the end of the world is nigh ........ I never strike my dogs nor do I use physical chastisement on any animal but when I'm annoyed you should hear me roar!
This will undoubtably be an unpopular opinion, but then they are my dogs and in all parts of their life they are 'waited on hand foot and finger' they are showered with love and appear to be happy, contented, outgoing little individuals. 
'Old hat' thinking it may be but in all my life (donkeys years), in a house full of dogs big and small, this has been 100% successful.

I don't often advise others to do this because many people are too scared of being bitten by their own dog (when they hear this deep growling sound) but it has the opposite effect on me....... I have a knee jerk reaction of shock, disbelief and severe anoyance and I just express my feelings.

Dogs dont want to bite the people they love.

we have taken straw slippers off him as he always has to eat our slippers and has broken them to shredds... even after a firm leave it or No

sometimes when we play games we do take his toy r make him find it as he knows what find means.. but we do this as a game called Find

we never have taken his food off him infact we say yours when he eats it as once a trainer told us he is scared we will take his food, as when we give him a treat he runs a mile next door and eats it away from us..... this still happens

he knows the leave command aswell and take as we have taught him this with his treats and toys

i just dont understand how he bit me and went so mad its so not like him to do that his face totally changed like he didnt recognise me :( i was quite scared actually and i still am..

and i dont understand why he needs to protest with us so much , and why the behaviour change

he is so loved and cuddled and let on our beds and treated as one of us we pamper him and love him to bits.. we just stop him from coming in kitchen when we eat as he begs and barks even though he has eaten....

i dont understand why he has done this and it seems he dont trust us with his toys or food

do you think he can be capable of this again ?

Would he come away from one of his guarded objects, if you sat down on the ground, and called him over for a cuddle?

no he wont leave his toys he will keep chewing and chewing and if u go near him he growls unless u say good boy to reasure him

I agree with tooolz,removing the dog from the room to somewhere else for some time out may be a good help...Victoria Stillwell does this and gets results so why not try it.
Also when your dog does behave and doesnt growl at you rgarding its food  reward its good behavior with praise as I found this helps me too.
I find this method has worked for me with my dogs and I AM IN NO WAY AN EXPERT BY ANY MEANS ,however as some may know it didnt work with a rescue dog my friends and I had.This dog had severe behaviour and deep psycologiacl problems due to how it had been treated in the past.No matter what we tried(and believe me we tried everything) we couldnt cure it and unfortunately the dog bit someone so bad we had to have it pts.
I am also IN NO WAY saying this will happen to you and your dog I was just giving my example of it not working.... our poor dogs problems were so deep seated before we got him I think it wouldve been kinder to the dog to have had him pts when he was handed over to rescue...wouldve saved a lot of heartbreak.

If your dog still continues with the behaviour no matter what you try I would take him to a vet for a good check up just to make sure theres nothing  wrong physically or mentally that could be causing the problem

I hope you have a happy resoultion to  your problem ill be thinking of you and hope you can tell us soon the problem is sorted

When Whistler growled at me I felt cold. I think they just need reminding who buys the food.
I hope it was a one off, if not get him vet checked as suggested. Both of ours are well loved but we should always remember they are animals with instincts that come to the surface when challanged or percieved to be challanged. A quick growl by you and a "no way Jose" should do the trick. Im human and you are doggie so accept it, im bigger and you will do as you are told.

We had more trouble with Jake than Whistler mainly because he was wild and Whistler was house bred but we got there quite quickly taking his breeders advice.

If we treat them as favored kids they act as if we are soft touches to be ignored. Thats instinct, you are being challanged and needs to react calmly but firmly. One way or another.
Best of luck.

Oh dear, by saying 'good boy' you are praising him for growling.

He is acting like the spoilt dog he is, just like an adolescant teenager. He is calling the shots.

Please call in a behaviourist who can observe all this in situ. You are not his pack leader, but you should be his leader, to be respected. He respects nothing but getting his own way, as he was such a cute puppy no doubt you treated him like a baby, now he is kicking his heels and turning nasty. No growling is good, biting is so way off the mark.

The swapping 'thing' everyone is talking about is to train him that LEAVE is a good thing. But I think you have so many issues to work through, but don't be daunted. I do beleive you have made a rod for your own back, but it can be unmade. You all need to wark to strict guidelines. He will be a much happier dog with all that angst taken out of his life.

Please call your Vet, it could be covered by your insurers.  

> no he wont leave his toys he will keep chewing and chewing and if u go near him he growls unless u say good boy to reasure him

I would then agree that your puppy has 'issues', is reaching a difficult adolescent age and is not representitive of his breed.
A cuddle from me is the highest prize and even though torn, my dogs will always chose me.
I wouldn't struggle on alone with this pup's problems, get professional help before your relationship with this little chap has gone too far.

There is a lot of advice to take on board isn't there!  Separate from the dog issue there may be some other things you and your family can do to restore some order - some others have already raised the issue of the dog being on the sofa or bed I think and that giving a puppy free run of the house too soon may be part of the problem.

I used to work with families who were preparing to adopt children and one of the things we used to do is ask them to agree their house rules before the child arrives.  For them it was such things as no shoes on furniture, limit TV time, decide bed times etc. 
It's the same with a dog, having a new puppy is so exciting (and challenging) that it's far easier if you have agreed the rules before they come, otherwise it's so easy to fall for that soft puppy eye look and let the dog take over!  However it's not too late to restore some order and you may be surprised how effective it can be - particularly as your pup appears to be having a testosterone surge!!

It sounds like you are a bit fraught at the moment and this is quite understandable, 6 months in you'd hope to be over the mess in the house wouldn't you?  Please don't think the dog is doing it just to annoy you though - they don't operate like that.  However it's difficult to give the best advice without knowing your circumstances.

***we stoped him from coming into kitchen when we eat and he pooped in the lounge on monday to piss us of........   he fights us back with pooing in the lounge and peeing in there when he is not allowed in kitchen***

When was his last walk?  If you need a quiet time to allow you to eat in peace - schedule a play time beforehand to tire him out a bit.  If he is still having accidents, perhaps when he gets excited or fretful - make sure you are still taking him outside after his mealtimes but also before yours too.  If you need to stop him from coming into the kitchen is there another room with a washable floor?  Alternatively can you use a crate in the kitchen?  Perhaps this would be a good time for a chew toy, if you have possession issues anyway it helps to keep toys to a minimum for a while.  Letting him have one only in his crate might reassure him that no one can take it away whilst also giving you some peace.  Have a basket of toys that you can rotate but only give them when the pup is in a 'safe place' and at a time to suit you.

Like I say, so much of the advice depends on your personal circumstances such as routines and timetables, room layout etc that it will be difficult for any one person to give you a definitive answer to solve every issue.  Careful use of crates and baby gates might help you to establish physical boundaries but it may also be worth taking the time to reestablish your virtual boundaries with 'dog v house' rules.  Make a plan, fix a timetable and try a strategic approach to puppy management!!    It's not as daft as it may sound and it may give you a chance to work out if you have any more serious issues.  Best of luck

Gumi, you sound understandably worried and confused by all this.  One thing is clear: your puppies behaviour is unusual for a Cavalier, this can mean two things: there is something wrong with him, or, he's a bit of a tough guy, you have inadvertently let him get ideas above his station and things have now got too far out of hand for you to deal with on your own. Either way get expert help. Don't linger.

It is clear from your posts that you are scared and not sure what to do and this hesitancy is bound to be picked up by the pup, and that can only make everything worse. You need a bit of hand holding and clear step by step direction. You can only get that from a good behaviourist in situ, who can tell you exactly what to do.

Don't feel bad. Not all dogs are easy and the ones that are very tough-minded can be challenging even for experienced people. It's even harder for you because you clearly chose a breed that has a reputation for being compliant and non-confrontational and so signs of aggression are bound to catch you out. 

Please see your vet asap and ask for a full medical check and then referral to behaviourist.

Stop panicking and making an issue out of it with your dog. One of my cavaliers once went through a little phase of this between about 7 months and a year and also growled if you tried to dry her with a towel.
If she had something she shouldn't I called her for a treat, she came out of the room, I shut the door and while she had her treat for coming to me I quietly went and removed the said object etc, the towel drying i just left a while, both things she eventually forgot or grew out of.
Its not usual behaviour for a cavalier and once you rule out any medical problem, I would stop making the issue any bigger with her and forcing her into a position where she needs to learn to make sure she always guards her stuff.

1. we let him growl?  or we dont let him growl???  so when we let him growl he is having his way? how does swapping for something else teach him obediance No means no etc (The vet said growling is bad it shows anger and he should Never be angry or growl at us his family. Im so confused)

Ok, it is completely unrealistic to expect your dog never to get angry or frustrated, do you know any person that is capable of that?  Dogs can't communicate with us the same way we do so they use body language and vocalisations, if they feel threatened they, growl, lip curl, stare, go still, lunge, snap etc etc.  People are saying not to contront him when he is doing this because he is clearly telling you he is uncomfortable when he growls at you, that is not the time to be dealing with the problem and if you do confront him there is a chance that he will feel that you are ignoring his warning and therefor take it to the next level, ie snap or bite.  When it gets to that point (growling at you) you deal with it by managing the situation.  Throw something for him to go and get or swap with something of higher value.  Now you know that you neede to work on him feeling comfortable with people around high value items and his leave command.

2. training with treats and toys drop take give leave swap etc( this i understand and i will sit with family today and discuss the importance of this)

Yes, use treats to teach him a give and a leave.  Start with low value items and gradually build up.  Clear away all stuff that he is likely to get his chops around that he is not allowed, ie, no leaving shoes, socks around where he can get them.

3. does anyone think he has a issue with possesiveness over toys and food if he is always growling do you think he thinks we take everything of him he likes?

Yes it does sound like he has issues with resource guarding/possesiveness.  He needs to learn that you being around these items doesn't mean the end of fun.  If you teach a dog that it is worth while them giving you something because they often get something better in return then they tend not to worry about giving things up.

4. he has so many toys and the run of the whole house the more freedom we give him the less naughty he is, but then i think we are just scared he will protest as below....

5. we stoped him from coming into kitchen when we eat and he pooped in the lounge on monday to piss us of........   he fights us back with pooing in the lounge and peeing in there when he is not allowed in kitchen ...... we stoped him as he has started to beg and bark when we eat even though he has had his dinner and treats........

He is not peeing or pooing to annoy you, he is either stressed by being excluded or he isn't properly toilet trained, he is only a youngster afterall.  Make sure you let him out before dinner time and reward him for going in the garden.  Maybe teach him to go to his bed on cue when you are having your dinner with a stuffed kong to occupy him or give him his dinner while you are having yours.  Have you ever given him food from the table or food off your plate as you need to be consistent and stick with what you want, it isn't fair to give him treats/scraps from your plate one time and then expect him not to beg.

6. last week he growled at the vet this has happened twice in last few weeks now..........   normally he loves the vets

If he has been to the vets a couple of time recently is there something wrong, has he recntly been unwell or has he recently been castrated, as it is quite comman for dogs to build up a negative association with the vets and feel worried or threatened and then growl or react because of this.  Take him to the vets and sit in the reception and give him treats, ask the receptionist and vets nurses to give him treats so he can start to build up a positive association.

7. he has developed bad breath since last week, we have got his breath tablets, and have been brushing him regulary...... its kinda stopped but suddenly re appears....

8. do you think he is unwell hence the bad behavour recently???

As with above, if there is some reason why he has been to the vets recently that may give an indication to him not being his normal self and certainly if a dog is unwell or having procedures for anything it can affect their behavior, it would certainly be worth getting him checked out.

Please don't think of this as a battle that you can't let him away with this behavior and you must put him in his place.  You know he has issues around possessions and while it is unacceptable behavior it does not make him a bad dog he is just afraid you are going to take away something he values this needs work and is changeable.  Setting him up for success by managing the environment around him so that he doesn't get the chance to practise unwanted behavior is very important. 

Teaching him a strong leave and a give are great ways for you to stay in control around resources without the need to be confrontational.

Teach him that people near him when he has something of value doesn't mean something bad, again teaching swapsies is a good way of doing this.  When he has a treat or something of value get something yummy call him to you and give him a reward so that he can learn that you being near when he has something valuable is actually a good thing not something he needs to be worried about.

I would also advcie that you enlist the help of a reputable reward based trainer for doing this, so that you have someone who can read his body language and make sure things are being taken at the right pace.  Good luck.

Gosh Gumi, sounds like you've had a bit of a fright :(

When I was in dog grooming many years ago a couple of my clients had issues with their dogs like this but I found their dogs to be perfect little angels.  The owners were very loving but perhaps not too experienced with dogs.  Sometimes I think we spoil our dogs because we love them so much and then the little devils just take advantage! 

Please remember that your dog didn't bite because he doesn't love you but because you didn't listen to his warning and that was his only way to tell you. I think you would find it helpful to find a trainer that could train YOU in how to get your dogs respect so he will listen to your guidance. As others have said he is going through his teenage years and pushing boundarys is the best way to learn what he can get away with.

>we stoped him from coming into kitchen when we eat and he pooped in the lounge on monday to piss us of........   he fights us back with pooing in the lounge and peeing in there when he is not allowed in kitchen ...... we stoped him as he has started to beg and bark when we eat even though he has had his dinner and treats........

Gumi,

Dogs don't do things to "piss us off"  they just don't think like that.  It's more likely that having been pampered, babied and generally spoiled all his life, it is confusing to him and possibly a little worrying that you've suddenly changed the rules.  He may also simply have needed the toilet which combined with a new situation caused him to make a mess.

It does sound as if you are finding this pup more challenging than you can cope with and would benefit from a behaviourist coming in to work out what is happening and how you can remedy the situation.  Some pups are just more challenging than most.  I had one myself, even as an adult she is ambitious and given an inch would take a mile, but being bossy with her just doesn't work.  We have to be more subtle and keep her in check in ways that don't stress her out.   We use the Nothing in Life is Free system with her and it works very well.

My dog growls when she is playing fetch, I am training her to drop her toy, but she lies there with it in her mouth growling but at the same time she is playing with me, in a way of come on lets see if you can get the toy from me.  Does this mean that I should stop her from growling at me in that situation?

I think growling during play is a little different. My girls growl during play but it is just that and I can tell the difference. They will all give up anything on command and there by lies the problem. You MUST teach you pup to give up anything on command. Many dogs growl in play and mean nothing by it but can you tell the difference between play "Talk" and true agression?
Go back to basics and teach your pup good manners. Toys MUST be relinquished if asked, a bit of rough play and growling is acceptable if you have total control of the moment when play stops and the item is given up. As those posters before have said training training training is the key to the problem. Never let play end with your dog in control of the toy. At the end of  playtime the toy is yours..not his! keep your play toys seperate so he only has some toys that are his all the time and the ones that you play with him with are under your control. He will learn that no matter how nice his "Trophy" is he must give it up when asked and rewarded for doing so.
I can remove anything from my dogs (Those I have now and those who have gone before) They learn as tiny pups that I will swop toys, socks, food, remote controles! etc.. for a nice high value treat and a cuddle so we do'nt have a problem. I think you just need to get the basics right now before it is too late and a real confrontation happens, better to shut the stable door now before your horse bolts!!
Aileen

Some very good advice has been given by Dill and others on this post.

I am always rather upset when people punish their dogs for growling at them, to expect their dogs never to growl. A growling dog is simply expressing that it is unhappy with something. Why shouldn't they be allowed to let us know if they are unhappy?

I have Golden Retrievers, a breed reknowned for their excellent temprement. They have growled at me once or twice between the three of them. If they growl, I stop and think about why they have felt the need (in the case of the middle one, she was scared of the hose, most likely as her previous owners had simply pinned her down and hosed her off) and how I can change the situation so that they are comfortable or do things my way without me getting confrontational. I seriously doubt any of the growls would have escalated to a bite, but why risk it? The day any dog bit me, I have failed it.

Regardless of breed, dogs are dogs. They are not humans and don't understand our human concepts. If a dog has somethign in it's mouth, as far as the dog is concerned, that is the dog's property. Until you have taught the dog to safely relinquish it, (and swapping is the best method to do this IMHO) why would the dog give up it's prized possesion?!

Because of the confusion and fright, I'd do what I often do and recommend a good reputable behaviourist or trainer, because I think the owner needs hands on help.
Gumi, folk are right in many things they have explained, eg the growling (obviously we don't want dogs to growl, but when they do, be thankful because they are communicating and not biting - so we need to work out why they growl and what we, as owners, can do about that :) ).

Also, it seems your little dog bit but showed inhibition - that's actually good that he did not draw blood or make a big wound!
Some dogs would bite hard and that's more of a problem.

I'd suggest www.apdt.co.uk (some are experience in behaviour) or try www.apbc.org.uk for help :)
If you are insured, you may find this is covered - fingers crossed!

Good luck

x

This isn't a rescue dog with known history of previous torment, this is a puppy!!! It is absolutely not acceptable for this puppy to growl and it certainly is practising how to bite.

PLEASE get in a behaviourist and a good one for a happy ending.  

Personally I'd prefer a dog or PUP that growled and then bit to one that just bit, which is the only option left to a pup or dog that isn't allowed to growl :(

Stopping the growling will NOT remove the dog/pup's need to do it/feeling of threat or discomfort, just the warning.  The way to stop the growling is not to force the pup into a situation where it feels the need to warn/growl in the first place.  This doesn't mean letting the pup have his own way, rather, anticipating how the pup will feel/react and defusing the situation by for example swapping a high value treat for something he has.  Calling him for a treat to get him off the sofa or not allowing him on the sofa if he's the sort who will feel he owns it.  This is something my own dogs do with each other! :)

I've known dogs of friends and family who were stopped from growling when pups.  They didn't stop feeling uncomfortable tho as their body language proved.  And all of them, sooner or later, bit without warning!  :( :(

This isn't a rescue dog with known history of previous torment, this is a puppy!!! It is absolutely not acceptable for this puppy to growl and it certainly is practising how to bite.

Why is it not acceptable for a dog to communicate how it is feeling?  Just as you are doing right now, just because dogs communicate differently than us does not mean that it is not acceptable - I expect this pup gave plenty of body language communication saying it was uncomfortable before it growled and that, as it is so often is, was missed.  Nobody is disputing that we don't want a dog to be guarding from us but that is what needs work, not taking away his ability to communicate with us.

My Dobe used to be very guardy and I know had I tried to 'exert' my authority and ignored how she felt I would have ended up with a dog that trusted me less and could have been pushed into biting.  Now she is very comfortable with people around her high value items and even tries to share (yuk) her bones with me!  This happened because I listened to her and worked on what she was uncomfortable with and changed her perception (and our bond is stronger because of it).  A dog that is resource guarding is still being aggressive based on fear, fear of taking something valueable away from it, that isn't about dominance or pushing luck, deal wqith the underlying reason and the growling stops!

Yesterday I went to see a dog that I Know well and had concerns over something being amiss with him for a while, nothing obvious he just didn't seem his usual self.  The owners, who are fairly in tune with their dog and not inexperieinced owners didn't think anything seemed different.  Any way yesterday when I went to see him he growled at me when I approached him on the sofa.  Luckily for him I didn't think he was getting above himself and needed putting in his place.  I put it together with what I saw as a recent change in behavior, contacted the owners and they had an appointment with him at the vets last night.  He has tenderness in his back end and is on anti inflamatories.  Had this story been told from the owners point of view it would have come across that he was guarding the sofa, and had the same advice been given as is being given here, that it is unacceptable for him to be growling and he is trying to push his luck his important communication tool would have been ignored and he would have been left untreated until maybe he became very lame or maybe he would have been pushed into biting because he had been punished for trying to communicate how he was feeling.

Please accept that dogs communicate differently to us and have every right to communicate, advise work on the underlying reasons that cause the dog to react in this way not that it is anacceptable for a dog to communicate with us - that just isn't fair on the dog!

I've always offered and held treats in my hand, such as chewie bones while the dogs chew on it and have never had one bite me or demand it back. Just make sure it's long enough from the mouth. Annoyingly though, my Dobe brings me her wet chewies to hold for her so she can get better purchase.

> I am always rather upset when people punish their dogs for growling at them, to expect their dogs never to growl

In respect of the OP........ this was an 8 month cavalier puppy who growled then bit about as hard as he could.

My dogs are all allowed to growl.....just not at me, children and friendly adults.
That's the deal............   and what a good deal they get for their part of the bargain.
Then if one ever does growl, I will know with certainty, that something extremely serious is wrong and not just that one fancies doing something I dont want them to.

He didn't bite as hard as he could, he didn't even break the skin.

As has been said, growling is one way of a dog communicating. That is all. Not a sign of aggression. If mine growl I listen. Not that they do, and they also do as I ask. however, I do expect them to behave like dogs, and accept that.

> growling is one way of a dog communicating

I am obviously very well aware of that fact. I do live with quite a few Cavaliers and would need to stretch my imagination quite a way to appreciate just how hard my own little 8 month girl would need to bite, to be more serious than this event. Yes my dogs do communicate this way in play or posesivness..... with each other but even they regulate by having a matriarch setting the standard.

> growling is one way of a dog communicating

Just as children swearing and abusing their parents?........... Not acceptable within my family dynamics and boundaries.
My human and dog family live in a mutually respectful home, where all the intelligent species are fully aware what it takes for a happy and peaceful environment. Boundaries and the benefits ...........we all gain from living by them.

> growling is one way of a dog communicating

>Just as children swearing and abusing their parents?

No, more like a child saying "No, I don't want to!" when told it's bedtime.

> No, more like a child saying "No, I don't want to!" when told it's bedtime

Only this child then did the equivelent of punching Mummy on the nose!
I've never had that happen.

Personally I'm all for dogs that growl - if it's in the right circumstances, of course.  Dogs that growl because they don't want to do something (but aren't stressed by it - such as the stroppy kid that doesn't want to go to bed ;-) ) I'm not keen on and would take steps to retrain it.

But dogs like this cavvy - who IMO has growled/nipped (and it was a nip, if it was a true bite he would have done more damage, even being a cav) because he was frightened of losing something he valued (the basis of resource guarding) - I don't mind growling.

From personal experience, situations like this need a dog to give a warning - so the owner is fully aware of when a line has been crossed, and how far they have pushed before that line is reached so that the problem can be dealt with effectively.  I say from personal experience because of my oldest dog - when she came home she was a bad resource guarder, but had (I believe) been punished for warning - and was textbook in her response, in that she did not give any warnings to me.  I had a lot of very close calls with her.  It was only over time, building trust and working on training and our relationship, that she now growls if I am pushing her - and she very, very rarely does that.

Hi

Gizzy went to the vets recently to have a check up on why he kept continously biting his back legs obsessively, also we had to purchase his flee and wormer doses hence the recent vet visits.

He also has his training at the vets so he is there most thursday evenings.

After taking on board everyones advice he is going to be checked out by the vet today again to see whethere or not this behaviour is health related
Also we have been finding behaviorists from reputable places which we are booking in to come train US and asses his behaviour.

After learning this swap step we have managed to swap the remote control last night with a toy and some mango. He has never ever been for the remote control before in the 5 months we have had him so we are trying to find better toys he can not chew and grind his way through and get bored off.... we did swap without him growling and barking back so thats a step in the right direction....

THANKS for all your help everyone xxx

Hi i agee with what you are saying

but can nips be that painful?

I think you should be our behaviourist as you are a cav owner you know the ins and outs!!!!!!!!

how do we stop this growling? A firm no is not working although the swap worked over the remote gizzy still growls like just now he growled at my sister for coming near him when he had his toy in his mouth :(

this is our first dog and we choose a cavalier for the calm nature they have......

do cavs have a tendency to be aggressive as they are spaniels?

>Only this child then did the equivelent of punching Mummy on the nose!

I've seen plenty of children struggle and hit out when forced to do something they don't want to! Doesn't mean it's desirable, but it's perfectly normal.

> Personally I'm all for dogs that growl

With respect Nikita, It would appear that you have Dobermans! Selectively bred, for over a century, for their prowess to guard and Growl .....and in that lies your experience.
Whereas we are talking about lap-dogs 'comforter spaniels'.

Just in case I was living in my own little parallel universe here..... I've just spoken to a Cavalier breeder of more than 40 years standing,
Honorary Life member of the Cavalier Club and the breeder of 10 or so champions and asked whether she thought that this was just normal Cavalier behaviour..................... well I shan't tell you in explicit detail........ but suffice to say she said no.
If you ask an equivalent Dobe breeder I would not at all be suprised if they agreed with you  BUT the OP was concerning a Cavalier.

.do cavs have a tendency to be aggressive as they are spaniels?
Spaniels generally aren't aggressive. But all dogs will push boundaries. He's a teenage boy - and we all know what they can be like!