Hi, i'm new to the site and i am really worried that i may have been conned and was looking for a little help / advice from people.

I collected my newfoundland puppy from my breeder on the 27th June 2008. She was seven weeks old and in really good condition. I had visited her a number of times on the run up to collection with my family and we were very sure that the beeder was good, all documents etc were shown to us about the mother and father etc. Mother was fantastic dog to be around. The house was as clean as you can hope it to be with a litter of growing newfies running around.
When we collected her the breeder didnt have any contracts for us to sign, as she didnt like them and ensured there would be no endorsements on the pup and that she would always be available if we needed help. I explained to her that i run an organic soap making company and that we specialise in making organic doggy shampoos, sprays etc and that my little newfie, would hopefully one day become a show dog. She was fine with this and said she thought the pup would make a fine example. When i asked for her papers, the breeder said that they hadnt arrived from the KC yet as there was a backlog of registrations to deal with. I contacted the breeder last week to ask if they had been forwarded yet and then she told me they were still waiting. She also told me that her son had passed away very suddenly and she just hadnt been on top of things.
We still havent heard anything from them about the registration, i've tried emailing the breeder and also texting her. I am going to try phoning her too to find out where the papers are later today but i just wanted to know if anyone else was having long delays in receiving the papers for their dogs or have i been conned into buying an unregistered pup?

Sometimes registration can take a few weeks to come through - why not contact the Kennel Club (you can phone on 0870 606 6750) and ask if they've received a registration form from the breeder?

I have contacted the KC and they have requested some information about the dams number, so that they can hopefully trace the forms. I have asked the breeder and i am still waiting on this information.

hi Classicoddities,

I dont have any advise about kc regs i just wanted to say hi as i myself have 3 newfs and its nice to chat with other owners now and again.

I now register puppies on-line and papers are with you within the week! I can't think they have that much of a backlog that it is taking weeks. I hope you get some positive news from the KC soon.

I sent transfer of ownership papers off for transfer on June 18th not had anything back as yet, just figured KC will be very busy at this time of year hence the wait. Hope its the same in your case.
Angela

The backlog story sounds like a wee, little fib to me, why is there a back log for this particular litter when everyone else that I know of including myself have received theirs within 3-7 days.

I personally would never take a pup without the papers ready on collection, IMO there is no real excuse not to have the papers done within 4 weeks of a litter being born. It takes a few minutes to fill out the forms or do on line.

However, I really hate myself sometimes for being so untrusting, if her son truly has died, imagine the state she must be in. I would not be able to function either.

But it could just be a story, used for stalling tactics?????

You are going to have a choice to make, if there are no papers and just excuse after excuse, and then no contact, the breeder is counting on you bonding too closely with the pup to ever give her back. You've only had your pup since the 27th June, if you have been conned it is not too late to take the pup back, can you do that?  That is what you need to ask yourself.

If you can't then you may have to face upto the fact that she will be unregistered, or giving the breeder the benefit of the doubt, maybe the breeder just did not send off for the papers earlier or has had problems she is not disclosing to you.

It certainly is not usual to wait this long for papers.......  but I think you need to also think about whether you will keep this pup without the papers, if you are ever going to decide on that you need to do it now.

I would give her a little bit longer - if the story isn't true then the papers aren't going to be there fullstop  so I wouldn't have thought waiting a bit longer would make much difference to the situation you find yourself in (if you intend to keep the puppy whether she is registered or not). If the story is true and the poor woman has lost her son then I can guarantee you that she won't be functioning well at all and your correspondence is probably very low down on her list of priorities at the moment.

Do you know any of the other puppy owners whom you could contact and see if they have been told the same story?

Thank you for all of your advice.
She still seems to be selling off the last of the litter as her adverts are still up on the site where i found them. I will try again to contact her and see what stage we are at. I'd never forgive myself if it isnt a story about her son and i put her under lots of pressure for something delayed outwith her control

You could be a little bit naughty, and ask a friend to enquire about her advertised pups, and ask if they are KC registered, come with papers and free insurance, ask about parents health checks etc, all very normal questions when enquiring about a pup. That way you can see if the story she gives you is the same. :-)

If you tell the KC you don't have the dam's number, just the name, they should still check for you.

Hopefully she's not lying and has this genuine reason for being a bit behind - what a terrible lie that would be! - but if the advert that is still showing refers to KC registration, can I suggest you print a hard copy of it just in case you need to follow up legally.

M.

Just a little tip for everyone that breeds: When I send off registration forms (I haven't done any online yet so don't know if you can print a copy off?) I scan it and keep a copy, and if for some reason the regs have not come through at the time of sale, I can then give a printed out copy to the buyers as proof that registration application HAS been sent off.

I registered mine online today, and yes there is something to print off to prove you did it. My friend registered by post last Monday, and by Thursday she heard from the KC so they must be getting through them quicker than is being let on?

If I haven't got the papers back then I sign a contract saying that they'll be sent when rec'd.  These days it definitely doesn't take weeks, they are back within 2 at the most!

> Just a little tip for everyone that breeds: When I send off registration forms (I haven't done any online yet so don't know if you can print a copy off?) I scan it and keep a copy, and if for some reason the regs have not come through at the time of sale, I can then give a printed out copy to the buyers as proof that registration application HAS been sent off.

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That is a really good tip, which I shall remember :)

i sent off my change of ownership on the sat morning and it was with me by the thusday last week, and on the wed ( the day before) his enhanced five generation pedigree arrived. this may be a different department , but to me it was Very fast!

I phoned the Kennel club yesterday afternoon to request a copy of my bitches Stud Book Number as she had shredded it.
The envelope is on my hall table this lunchtime.  Less than 24hrs... that's good !!!

The last litter reg I did shocked me by the speed of it's return - so the seller has other reasons than the one she's giving.........
"When i asked for her papers, the breeder said that they hadnt arrived from the KC yet as there was a backlog of registrations to deal with"

Let's hope that she's not lying about the other excuse... that would be truly awful.

If you get no joy from the reasonable measures suggested, then a solicitor's letter will probably do the trick.

I rang the kennel club today re my reg and they said they have no record of it, asked me to check out when cheque was cashed (was done 26 June) they are looking into it for me and said they will ring me back. Shows not always excuses but maybe genuine reasons/mistakes.
Angela

she has told us that the regs will be here no later than next week. I'm going to give her until friday and then take the matter further. I have copies of all of the adverts that she has placed, so luckily will be able to go to court under the trade descriptions act should all else fail.

You are doing all that you can, next Friday is looooong enough, I hope that you do get your papers and do not need to drag her through the courts, although she does not have a leg to stand on and to be honest, if more people did this and did not just shrug their shoulders and let things go others would not get away with faulse advertising.

Good luck, I have my fingers crossed that they arrive.

Hi

I think we may have bought from same breeder! Please PM me.  We still havent received our documents yet either and we got same story!  We phoned kennel club today and give them details and they said they have no record of any puppies registered at all and the breeder said she did it on line weeks ago.  I have just notice on the pedegriee form she give us the name is tipexed out and covered with her name, im so worried now. 

I have just notice on the pedegriee form she give us the name is tipexed out and covered with her name, im so worried now. 

That is very worrying, Thompson1 I hope that you have bought from the same breeder as it would be impossible to trace other puppy owners from this litter, so united you can stand in this.

If it is a responsible site/paper/breed club being used to advertise these pups, please both of you get in touch with the site to let them know, it is very important that you do this.

Unfortunately, all the information I can find relating to Thomson1's pup (posted on another thread) points very much to 'pet' breeding so whether you will get you KC registration certificates is anyone's guess at this stage :-( 

I agree with Carrington, if you don't get your paperwork, you must report this breeder to the sites she is using to advertise on and to trading standards.

well i have contacted trading standards. They were actually really helpful and gave me alot of information and clarified some of what i already knew with running my own business.
1. It will cost £38.00 to take the woman to court over a breach of 'the sale of goods act' and also a profit by deception.
2. The police can be contacted as she is activelly making money by fraudluant means.
3. In a court of civil rights, it is not a case of proving if this person is guilty or not. It is a matter of providing enough evidence to back a claim of deception / fraud (which makes it a lot easier for the person claiming)
4. If all goes well at court it costs £15.74 for an advert in that area's particular newspaper to publish the findings and results of the case.
5. If you do not give the pup back to the breeder you are entitled to a compensation payment from the breeder. They told me to find out the average price of an unregistered dog before hand and then claim back the difference compared to what was actually paid.

hope this helps a little with people who may have been ripped off.

have pm'd you thomson1, always nice to chat with another newfi owner :)

That should be very useful for other puppy buyers, classicoddities.  Thank you for taking the time to post it.  I do hope you get a result, whether that's the KC registration you are hoping for or a succesful claim against this woman. 

Hi, I just got your essage we got our dogs from same town just waiting for a pm to find out if it is same breeder.  My hearts going really fast and im in panic mode.  Hopefully in a way its the same breeder and we can do it jointly.

Well if it is and it proves to be a scam then .....I wish you luck.
Anyone who uses as an excuse, that her own son has just died, and it turns out to be a lie....... must be some sort of hard nut.

well, it does appear to be the same person that both myself, and Thomson1 have purchased from. Until this matter is completely cleared. Can i please ask that anyone looking for newfoundland puppies in the Thornton area of Fife, Scotland please do not buy any until we find out if this is a scam or a genuine reason. I shall keep you posted on how things are progressing

So sorry to hear about everything you're both going through but on the other hand how lucky that both of you belong to here and can stand united on this.

It is a bit of a nightmare. You think that you've done everything right, checking paperwork, dogs, house etc only to find that you might have been conned.
But even if all else fails at least i know that i've found someone else that is going through exactly the same thing as me.

This is why it is recommended that you find a breeder through the breed clubs. You may have to wait a bit longer but it is worth it for the peace of mind.

I posted the breed clubs puppy lists contacts for Thomson1 just a few days ago but apparently it was a waste of my time. Oh well, maybe someone else will see it and use the information and can avoid the type of situation you are now in.

can I just say, I have been on this list for a while and visited the breeder several times! The other post was for my friend who was on a list of another breeder!

I wonder why you didn't recommend your breeder to your friend then, if you were so sure she was above board and genuine.  It would appear that she was still advertising available puppies at the time...

Also, you asked for information today regarding dogs in your pups pedigree (sire and dam?).  Why do this research AFTER the fact?  If you had checked this out sooner you might have discovered sooner that this breeder appears, on the surface of it, to be a BYB.  No one reputable mates a 17 month old bitch...for many giant breeds that would be their first season :-(

hi, im trying to get help.  I did recommend the breeder however she had no bitches left.  I did some reseach and infact one of the breeders who advitise on this site helped me with some of the research into the lines.  Im not here to bitch or point the finger, we would just appreciate any help.  Thanks

ShaynLola. I did my very best to find a good beeder. I had in fact been to see several 'breeders' where i personally thought that the pups were not being looked after properly or the paperwork did not add up. This breeder had the pups in her living room. They were healthy. All the paperwork coinsided with the dogs that i met and was also informed that this was bitches second litter at the age of 4 years. I personally visited my pup at least once a week to bond with it and on every occassion everything seemed to be above board. A backlog of KC registrations did seem plausible and was confirmed by email from the KC itself.
I am not the only person to have been conned in this way, and i doubt i'll be the last, but there is a limit to how much knowledge a novice buying their first KC dog has.

If all the paperwork was seemingly in order, can I ask if the health test results for sire and dam were included in that.  Because at the minute, the only saving grace here would be if the sire and dam were at least satisfactorily health tested.  Thanks.

I'm sure you realise now that the fact that this is only her second litter aged 4 doesn't mean a lot when you know that the first litter was born when she was only 19 months old :-( 

the first of me finding out that the first litter was at the age of 19 months was when you annonced it on the message boards. For future reference, where exactly can you find this information if the breeder / owner of the dog doesnt tell you?

She did show me all of the health tests for the dogs and everything was fine. The main worry - which started this topic was the fact it was taking so long for the papers to come through.

The worry that their not coming starts to eat away at you, which is why i voiced my concerns here. Luckily for me I have actually met another person who doesnt live to far away that has bought a pup to, and hopefully we'll be able to stay in touch and let each other know how our dogs are getting on.

If the poor woman has lost her son, then i'll be the first to buy her the biggest bunch of (non poisionous) flowers i can find and send it to her with a card, apologising if i caused her any more pain, when i receive the papers.

I was able to find the information simply by googling the names posted by Thomson1 and checking the Newfoundland database which is freely accessible to anyone via the internet.

If the breeder has gone to the trouble of hip & elbow scoring, heart testing and (hopefully) cystinuria testing, then I can't think why she would try to deceive you over KC registration so perhaps you will yet get your papers.

Don't forget to give the tax man a ring as well!!

I had the same dilema as you ... but the breeders of my pup even rang the KC and gave my name and they were willing to give me the info i needed ... try that approach with the breeder ...( there was a back log , but me being suspicious was not having it ... but my pup's breeder went all out to let the KC reasure me ... even to the point of them knowing my name when i rang the KC  )

dear classicoddities & Thompson1,

To find out a bit more info on the parents of these puppies, why dont you contact Christine Brooke Of Royalbrooke who is a CD Member and ask her if
Peppycoin Bruno's Warrior has had his health tests done as she is his owner unless she has sold him to somebody else. Also if you know anybody who regualy has the breed record supplements
all hip score results are in there but it would need to be somebody who has them all.

Kodie

have you had any joy getting your papers yet? I hope you have and can enjoy your puppy without the worry now!

I too was wondeing about this. :)

Hi there

No we havent as yet.  I have left several emails for the breeder and also several voice mails on both her home phone and mobile and no returned.  I telephoned the KC today again and still nothing.  Trading Standards are involved now so fingers crossed we can get something done.  I have to be careful what we say as I think she is in partnership with someone on the boards.  fingers crossed Trading standards can help.  I personaly have a meeting with a solicitor next week to take legal action.

Good for you.
about time something was done about these breeders that promise everything and deliver nothing.

Peanuts

Uh-oh.  I have everything crossed that it all works out for you.

I spoke to the breeder who she is in connection with and was told, bloody hell I dont know what your all getting stressed about you will get your bl**dy papers when the lady gets round to doing them! the lady lost her sone 5 weeks ago and has more on her plate then sorting blo**dy KC papers out.  I dont understand what your all getting so hepped up about anyway there will probabley all just be ruined pets and not even shown so not sure why you would want the papers anyway!!

If her son died 5 weeks ago you can only sympathise with the pressures she must be under but can't her associate step in a deal with the paperwork for her?

Isabel my thoughts exactly, plus why tell one buyer she had posted the documents off and then tell another that she did them a couple of weeks ago online?  and surely if there is the whole litter complaining then you would think either one would take ten mins out to get the documents off to save the hassel of all the phone calls!