My Shih Tzu puppy is 6 months old and spent the first 4 months of his life in a kennel.
On my dog trainer's advice I crate -trained him as he had no idea that OUTside was for peeing etc and INside wasn't! He would literally get it the wrong way round!
He has done really well - mainly because I take him out alot and wait for him to do his business but recently he's been sliding back.
Yesterday I caught him just in time before he peed in my bedroom - shouted NOOOO! and took him into the garden where eventually he peed.
Then today I walked him as usual first thing in the morning before breakfast and he did both. Then after I'd had my breakfast, noticed he'd snuck in a pee and a poo in the kitchen.
In the warmer weather I just left the back door open for him and the cats to go in the garden but it was shut this morning due to cold!
Does anyone have any bright ideas about it? Should I put him back in his crate when busy and unable to keep my eye on him constantly? Are we back to square one - or is it normal for pups to regress from time to time at this age? I get so fed up with owners telling me in the park how their puppies were brilliantly trained after a week or so etc.... it makes me feel such a failure! It's rather disappointing as well cos I put in so much time and effort into training him and I feel as though he'll never be completely safe inside. Difficult when you're in other people's houses etc...
I would so like to get him to the stage when he understands it's wrong to do it inside... even when I reward him for going outside, he looks surprised. I just don't feel he's really twigged yet. Any help??

Hi Alison
Firstly, stop thinking that you have failed, you haven't. Toilet training a puppy is not an exact science :D
A lot of puppies do slip back, not only with toilet training but in all kinds of things. You think you've cracked something then you get a few blips and you start thinking all the training was a waste of time. I've felt like this hundreds of times ! :)

Our young dog, who is coming up to one year old, was also in kennels for his first 6 months. Although his toilet habits weren't too bad, he occasionally got confused as sometimes we took him in the front garden and other times in the back. So, on a few occasions he did it in the hall, halfway between ! We realised this was our fault and sorted it out.

Be assured, your pup will get it right eventually. The more times he does his business outside, and gets praised for it, the more he will get the message that this is what's expected of him.

Good luck :)
Joyce

It's still very early days and of course everybody else's dog is perfect (not !) as the owner of a very naughty dog all I can say is you're not on your own !
good luck --it will come :)
Liz

Goodmorning Liz
I would agree with you that it is very early days yet. If the dog spent its first four months in kennels it is probably very imature. My dog Mr Murphy was 15 weeks when I got him and he had been kept in a kennel. He was dead easy to train, 3 days to house train and no accidents also really easy to train off lead, he is lacking in a little self confidence though making him a little clingy. This is good in a way as he wont stray. I would say that his long period in the kennel, with not a lot of human input has made him a bit imature.
so dont worry to much Alison it will come .
Regards Mick.

HI
MY SPRINGER, DECOY, WAS QUITE EASY TO HOUSE TRAIN, I DID THE TAKING HIM OUT TO THE GARDEN EVERY HALF AND HOUR TO AN HOUR, PRAISING WHEN HE WENT ETC, AND I THOUGHT I'D CRACKED IT REALLY EARLY ON, HOWEVER, HE HAD A RELAPSE AT ABOUT 6 MONTHS, AND STARTED WEEING AND POOING IN THE DINING ROOM (LOVELY!) I PUT IT DOWN TO HORMONES KICKING IN, AND HAD TO GO BACK AS IF HE WERE AN EIGHT WEEK OLD PUP AGAIN, AND IT SANK IN. I DID WORRY THAT BECAUSE MOST OF MY LOT WERE SUMMER PUPS AND THE DOOR WAS PERMENANTLY OPEN THAT I'D HAVE TROUBLE COME THE COLDER MONTHS - THE SPANIELS STILL DO NOT EVER 'ASK' TO GO OUT, (COOKIE WHO IS NOW 6 MONTHS DOES STAND BY THE DOOR AND THEN COMES AND GETS ME IF HE NEEDS TO) - SO FOR THE NAUGHTY SPANIELS I SHOUT FROM TIME TO TIME THROUGHOUT THE DAY, 'DOGGIES OUT?' AND WHOEVER HAS THE CALL OF NATURE, COMES INTO THE KITCHEN TO BE LET OUT (PERHAPS I'M A NUTTER :)) IT WORKS FOR US :) DON'T WORRY I THINK LOTS OF DOGS THAT APPEAR FULLY HOUSETRAINED HAVE RELAPSES NOW AND AGAIN , ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE COME FROM KENNELS :) JULIE sorry everyone - pam just told me that caps lock typing means shouting - apologies - not shouting - just new to this :) julie

Joyce - thanks so much for helpful comments! It's great to know it's not that unusual and I'm not a total failure! I just felt so helpless and negative about it all this morning.
I knew it was going to be uphill but...!!! he's such a brilliant little boy in every other respect and I'm just keen to be able to take him into shops and friends' houses etc without constantly worrying and watching!
It's strange though - however many times he gets treats/praise etc outside, he still doesn't seem to understand and yet he's such a clever little devil in every other way!
Anyway - it's so comforting and great to know that there are doglovers out there who don't mind giving common sense advice when it's needed! It really helps.
Thanks so much to everyone who answered as well - because I don't have all the replies in front of me, sorry to leave out any names of helpers!! but thanks to all!
Alison

Hi Alison,
You seem to be doing ok but I wonder if the ever open door has lead to him not learning to ask when he needs out. If you are there you will see him go to the door but at the moment he can't ask to go out and just can't wait for long.
When I housetrained Cava I was lucky in that he was in our extension which has patio doors to the garden and he quickly learnt to paw the door when he wanted out, if I wasn't attending he would bark at me.
Try when you are taking him out making a thing of saying do you want to go out go to the door and encourage him to follow you keep stressing out then once out give be clean or what ever command and praise when he performs. Just give him a refresher course really. The Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey says not to take toilet training as accident proof until the dog is a year so I think you are doing fine
Anne

Thanks SO much for encouraging message - yes, i think having door open for cats etc has make him more confused about it all. He spends pennies as though it were an accident at the best of times - his mind is always on other things - so he hasn't learned to ask to go out. Will try to do better!
Cheers and thanks!
Alison

Chienne had a doggy door available 24/7 from puppy to about 4 years old.
When we moved here, we didn't realize that she had gotten up all of her life around 2-3 am to go outside for a quick 'break'. It even took her time to come upstairs in the daytime to 'ask' to be let out. She could/would not wake us to let us know she had to go out. I still wonder if she was sleepwalking??????
We kept coming downstairs to find a puddle or a pile on the old carpet (never the linolium :rolleyes: ) for the first years here at least once a week. Very frustrating!!

This past year, I got smart, put a kid gate on our bedroom door or kept it shut at night and we have had SUCCESS!!! She makes it through the night with no incidents or requests. Perhaps next year, we might leave the door/gate open? :D

Although this has made me think of when we get another dog/puppy...the only time a doggy door is going to be used is when we are absent. Just to help train for 'requests' :)
So don't feel bad... I think 'house training' has affected everyone on here in some negative frustrating manner ;) :) :D

Thanks Sara!
Comforting to hear I'm not the only one!
Alison

Alison

What you describe is a common problem. People think the open door helps when in fact it does not teach the dog to ask. Go back to the beginning and start again. When you put him outside - he'll see you open the door - let him out of his crate and as soon as he goes up to the door open it.

You can encourage him to ask by chatting to him at the door and getting him excited. In a high cheery voice say something like - "wanna go out" "tell me then" and as soon as he makes a sound open the door and give him lots of praise. He will get the message very soon.

Put him out after food, drink, play, sleep etc etc. just as you would a new puppy, but rather than carrying him - take him to the door and let him stand in front of it while you open it and encourage him to tell you.
I'm sure he'll crack it quickly:)

good luck

Pam n the boys

Pam - Many thanks for your sound common sense advice. I think you're right about my Mikey going out side too easily. I'm trying out your advice about keeping the door shut and asking him etc. .. the only trouble is, he isn't a very vocal dog except when playing with the cats!
Tonight he was playing with youngest cat Teddy and as usual was far too busy to listen to me, so I turfed Ted outside, shut the door and asked "Do you want to go out?" Mikey started pawing the door to be let out to finish his game with Teddy so let him out and about 5 mins of mucking around and he finally peed!
The way I've been getting him to go is to try to stick to a more or less consistent routine of walking him several times a day but obviously that isn't really working. If only I could bark instructions to him!
Here's hoping!
Alison

hiya
have you tried tieing ( how do you spell tieing ?)something to the door for her to rattle ,our lad can reach the keys and rattles them when he wants to go out .if you encourage her to rattle something --keys bells etc whenever you go out she'll soon catch on
good luck
Liz :)

Hi Alison,

I have an 11 month old Lhasa Apso and I too was beginning to despair about housetraining. However, she hasn't done anything inside now for about 6 weeks! I have a large cat flap fitted to the back door and she follows the cats out to the garden. At night, I make sure that she goes out just before we go to bed and then she sleeps in a room with the door closed (usually with my 12 year old son, it has to be said). There is no way she will soil the room she sleeps in.
Don't worry, you'll get there in the end!!!!!!!!

Sharon

HI Sharon! Great to get your message and hear from someone with the same sort of problem! I guess smaller dogs are more difficult to train sometimes! Lhasas and Shih Tzus are so similar - Mikey's great friend is a Lhasa called Desmond who is a darling!
Mikey too stays dry in the night and sleeps with us.. though we've had one or two accidents in the bathroom to begin with. The weird thing is, you'd think his bladder would be bursting first thing in the morning but not a bit of it! He can mess around in the garden for ages before he does his first wee in the morning.
It's rather galling to be back to square one after several weeks isn't it? It's so comforting to know that your little one is 11 months and you felt like me about it! It's kind of suspending normal life till you feel you don't have to watch their every move and take them out every hour or so...
Thanks again for the reassurance and hope you continue to have a dry house!!
Alison oops forgot....
He also follows the cats into the garden to play with them but I think that's where the problem has arisen partly. He doesn't know to 'ask' to go out when he genuinely needs to go! He can't get through the cat flap - maybe that's a good thing!! I try to get him excited to learn to show me when he wants to go but not a huge success so far!! As you say, I'm sure (???) we'll get there in the end!

Hi again Alison,
I've just realised that my experience and advice differs from the others in that Tilly CAN go out whenever she likes. I spent months taking her out, praising her when she did something etc. but she just didn't seem to get it. Then one day, seemingly all by herself, she seemed to wake up to the fact that it wasn't very nice living in a house full of pees & poos! Maybe they just need time to mature. Even if the cat flap is accidentally shut now, she whines at the door. And you're right, they are similar little dogs. Most people think she is a Shih Tzuh!
Having cracked that one, I wonder how long it's going to take me to stop the cats shredding my plants/curtains, bringing in 'trophy' leaves.....................etc.etc.

Sharon

Your cats bring in "Trophy Leaves" Now that's funny :) :) Especially since they're a predatory animal... what does the poor plant do? Fight them off so they bring you their proud 'kill' ? :D :D :D :D
Thanks for the laugh at the vision of fightin' shrubs :)
toodles

Only the prickly ones put up a fight! Oh, and I forgot the worms - the kitten seems to think I would appreciate a nice bowl of garden worms for breakfast. There are always a few writhing on the kitchen floor in the morning!

Sharon

Too bad you don't fish :) They provide the bait, you get the dinner :D :D :D

Congrats, Sharon!! You've obviously cracked it with time and patience.
Interestingly Mikey sounds just the same as Tilly in that he doesn't have a clue why I'm praising him for peeing etc outside... just looks at me blankly. I think every time he goes outside it';s just lucky accident that he does it out rather than in..
I'm hoping that he'll just click like Tilly did when he's mature enough! I think you're right though - that's usually what happens and dogowners everywhere are busy congratulating themselves it was their training that did it! Maybe it was, but I never had this with my previous 2 dogs...
Mikey also adores the cats and is desperate to play with them all the time - when they're in the mood it's fine but otherwise he just barks and barks and drives everyone up the wall! He will NOT stop - are Lhasas stubborn??
At least be grateful your cats aren't bringing in dead mice!!! I sometimes get a nice little present on the kitchen floor and they get very hurt when all I do is yell!
Great to find someone with similar experiences - let me know how you get on!
Alison