did anyone see this programe on monday night? omg it was awful how on earth people can live like that i just dont know. when the council rehomed them they left the dog as there was not room for it? maybe my neighbours are not so bad after all.

**Mouth on the floor*** 20 children! 20

I didn't see the programme at all.

20 children, a council house and an abandoned dog says it all I suppose. Do I even need to know anymore. :-D

Dear, dear.............

I saw about five minutes at the end. I think my head may well have exploded if I'd seen the whole programme ...

M.

It probably would have, goodness knows how many different mothers there were, about 4 I think. Three or four of the boys had exactly the same name ! His wife actually seemed OK and one of his daughters seemed very bright but he kept going on about how he wanted more kids! Didn't work, was an alcoholic, just out of prison for the umpteenth time, why the h*ll do I bother working and limiting my family to two I ask myself? Should just have jacked work in had 15 kids and let tax payers pay for them !! People should need a license to breed!

The few minutes I saw included shots of children sleeping 3 to a filthy mattress on the floor with no sheet, father teaching them to throw knives at each other for entertainment, him talking about needing £500 a week to make it worth his while going back to work. He didn't look worth 50p a week to me.

Words fail me ...

M.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it!  Those poor children!  How bad has it got to be before Social Services step in?  I would have thought that they would have all the photographic evidence they needed from the film to take those children into care!  The one little girl so wanted to make something of herself, poor kid!  I actually thought that the Mother was more useless than the father, when he was sent to jail, things just fell apart there, the Mum just sat down all day smoking and drinking and not even putting the baby to bed.  The dad did seem to love the kids in spite of being an total A*$***le!

the Mother was more useless than the father
that's true the kids did a better job of bringing themselves up, but at least she was refusing to have more kids and at one point when they were talking to her I thought she actually sounded reasonable (but I may have been in shock by this time so anthing might have sounded sensible :-D), but totally overwhelmed by all these kids and stepkids and grandkids everywhere. When they were moving I'd have dumped the lot of them and taken the dog TBH :-D :-D Oh and that poor wee lass that was trying so hard - I'd have taken her too :-D

A relative of mine lives in the same village as them.  Her husband has just retired from teaching and I asked her if he had ever taught any of the children but she hadn't seen the programme and didn't know the family which I found quite surprising!  I might add that not all of the village is the same as their place!  :)

I saw the last bit of that programme and it wasn't until they were walking thru the town centre I that realised it was my town

Going to have to watch it all on iPlayer now :(  - but my head might explode :(   I couldn't believe the way the family was living either :(    and the way they all spoke to each other !!!   made me so sad.  Now I understand why some people need parenting classes :(

>not all of the village is the same as their place!

Too right, most of it is nothing like them ;) 

castrate all the men and steralise the women

Sorry Dill, you live in a Town, not in a 'Village' as I called it!

Oh, I missed it, and I love programmes like that :-( I think I am just nosey as to how other people live!

anyone know if it will be repeated? sounds like i might get angry though if there was no room for the dog!

I was out last night too (watched Kung Fo panda at the cinema-excellent) but would love to see this programme.
Dont you think it is awful that in a couple of generations things have gone so downhill??!!! I know people my nans age and my nan included that came from large families where 8 was the norm and 12 wasnt unusual. All those children were well fed, brought up, clothed and turned into polite contributing citizens of society. yet this family obviously keep having children without being able to look after the ones they've got.
He definatly needs castrating but the women need educating too to want to reproduce with a man like him.

I did watch it and got very annoyed, they had money for cigaretts, tins off larger. But! no sheets on the beds nothink covering the mattresses, dirty, three or 4 to a bed.
They would have been given money to buy beds and linen.
He was always drunk, she was a lazy --- house was dirty. One of the young boys was trying to clean the floor because he didn't want to be taken in to care.
As my Grandmar used to say. Soap and water costs nothink.
Social Services would not have taken them in to care if they are feed and attend school. They now except that there are diffrent "classes" of people, for the want of a better word.
They would take them into care if they parents fail to protect, abuse them or they fail to attend school. But! there are so many children living like this there is nowhere to put them if they did.

Denese

The thing that really gets me about people like that is that they think they have a right to live of the state - in that deadbeat's case to the tune of £27,000 a year.  And who is funding the "state" - us working folks. 

I have no quarrel at all with helping people working on low income, people who cannot work because they are disabled, people who are between employment through no fault of their own - but it angers me to see what's left after taxes are taken out of my pay when I think that some of it is going to deadbeats like that guy.

I do feel terribly sorry for the children. 

in the bit i watched his son sold his mp3 player so his dad could buy cider.
enungh said!!!!!!!!!!!!!

didnt see it but are you sure 20 kids only get £27000 a year? i thought tax credit etc would be more?

I didn't see it.  I don't watch programmes like that because they make me so cross.  I'm not shocked by them, I know these people exist because I've seen them and lived amongst them as we all do, you just need to look a bit harder.

I watched it on iplayer last night. Cannot believe that they get all that money - think the narrator said that they get rent/council tax paid for them also. The only thing that the kids seem to have been "taught" by the parents was not to steal from each other (the 9 year old thought it was ok that she'd stolen from a shop as it wasn't from each other!) and even that went out the window once the dad was banged up in jail.

That's what they said, only five kids are living with him and his current partner.

im watchin it now, im nosey to see things like this too.

£440 pounds a week, i got £570 a month last payday no wonder im struggling to make ends meet at the moment. Jesus i might just pop a few sprogs out and live the life of riley. Yeh hes epileptic because hes an alcoholic, over a long period of time the alcohol causes epilepsy. Cant believe this, my mum would have a fit, she worked so hard to support our family when we were little and scumbags like this do nothing.

There seemed to be more than five kids there though!............

There were 10 I think?

ETA: 5 girls and 1 grandchild in one room, 4 boys in the other.

Sadly this is nothing new, over 35 years ago when I was working at the then Dept of Employment-Labour Exchange. I had regularly to pay out in cash & there was a guy & his wife claiming for 18 children(I jest not)6 were his, 6 were hers & the others joint !! his money at the time was more than I could earn in a month weekly !! & on top of his money he got from us there were other benefits such as Family Allowance, Attendance allowance payable for a few of the kids etc etc. He didn't actually have to sign on, but did as it meant he got the money in cash weekly rather than on a book.

He was scruffy & smelly(as was his partner & all the children I ever saw with them)I would think the money they got went straight down their throats in a liquid form or up in smoke. they had a council property that was three terraced houses knocked into one & home helps & child carers provided by the Local Authority.

Sadly there will always be people like these, who take everything & give nothing.

Anyone remember the guy living with two women in two separate homes who had 21 children !!!!

Hang on a minute.. i didnt see anyone 'living the life of riley' there... Maybe I was watching a different show to everyone else.

With 9 kids in the house, all requiring feeding (and they all seemed to be getting proper big plates full of food), clothing, school stuff... I dont think £440 a week goes very far AT ALL.

By my reckoning, me and OH spend £50 a week on food for just the two of us, add in a further nine people, plus nappies, shoes, clothes AND electricity, water, phone, gas - I think anyone on here with that level of outgoings would be a loooooooong way from the life of riley on that income.

I dont think they should have had that many kids, I dont think ANYONE regardless of income ought to have that many kids but thats my personal belief. If you dont like what your taxes pay for, the simple answer is, move to a country that doesnt have the same welfare state we have here!

I think that the point most people are making on here is that the family are getting all that money without working for it.  How many people do you know who are working, getting less than that, and still can't afford to smoke and drink even if they wanted to?

Hm. None, to be honest with you.. none at all.

And no im not rich, I would say if you took a poll of all champdoggers incomes, I would be close to, if not actually, bottom of the heap with an average household income of well under 15K a year.

And we afford to smoke, drink occasionally, we cant afford to run a car ourselves but between us and our close friends who live next door but one, we share a van..

I know some people who *say* they couldnt afford to smoke and/or drink... but those people run two cars, have a lot of holidays, spend lots of money on their houses, choose to have expensive Sky tv packages, or horses or .... so really, they choose not to be able to afford some things.

I can appreciate that it must be galling to some that they get 'all that money without working for it'.... but to get 'all that money'... would you REALLY want to live the life they do? I know I certainly wouldnt, and I've been a LOT closer to that kind of lifestyle than most on here have.

Dont forget, the documentary makers have obviously focussed far more on the bad points than anything else, loooooong shots of cases of cider, the whole 'forgetting to put the baby to bed' thing which in all likelyhood in reality was 2 minutes whilst someone cleaned their teeth, and not the horrific hours they implied..

As i said (i think i did.... i did edit my post a lot though)... I dont think anyone ought to have that many kids, regardless of what they earn, because theres too many people in the world as it is.

If anyone here was actually trying to raise 9/10/howevermany kids on 440 a week... I think they would seriously struggle, and wouldnt think for a SECOND that they had it easy.

Maybe i just think life is too short for me to be worrying about what other people have, how other people live. I have what I have and ive earned it myself, and im proud of that and content with it. Im not going to be sour because other people have what seems on paper to be 'more' than me.. for doing what is considered to be 'less' than i do. It would just be a waste of my time.

Theres no way on this earth id have 9 kids, be overcrowded like they were and be an alcoholic, even if it did net me £30K a year for sitting about all day.

And no im not rich, I would say if you took a poll of all champdoggers incomes, I would be close to, if not actually, bottom of the heap with an average household income of well under 15K a year

My income is less than half that amount and I do run a car but use it sparingly. Very tight budgeting keeps it all afloat :)

Money or the lack of it is all relative!  It depends on what your expectations are!  :)

Money or the lack of it is all relative!  It depends on what your expectations are!

My expectations were very different to what I got :)

Yes......well I thought I was going to marry Elvis!!!  :)  :)

Fantastic posts theemx. Totally agree with you.

Fab post Em.
There is diversity in life and we must all see that.

Karen ;)

Yes......well I thought I was going to marry Elvis!!! 

You had a lucky escape then :) :) :D

:)  :)  .......forgot to add "Even though he was almost old enough to be my father!!"  :)  :)

There is diversity in life and we must all see that

Unfortunately these children seem to be following down the parent's route already, where was the young boy getting all the 'scrap metal' he was selling? The family had to be rehoused because the water had gone off, we were later told the water was off because the pipes had been removed!! The council would need to pay to make that habitable again. We were anything but rich when we were young (I was born in the early 60's) but we had a sense of pride and responsibility instilled in us just the same. We may have been poor but we were honest and we were clean and we went to school and behaved when we got there. I worked hard and went to university and earned a degree which now gives me a good standard of living (not high but better than when I was young). Soap and water cost nothing and neither does respect for others and that is what is lacking.

You can be as diverse as you like but we have laws in this country that are there for a reason and if these folk can't obey these laws then why should my taxes be supporting them in their life of dishonesty? I get a bit tired of people banging on about their 'rights' whilst completely ignoring their responsibilities .

That also goes for the MP's who can claim up to £400 per week for their food bills - it is an absolute disgrace and if I had my way they would get exactly the same as the pensioners do to live on and see how they could manage!
Rant over!

Well said Dakkobear!  Couldn't agree more with you.  The problems experienced by the family were self-inflicted.

Yes as adults.
The children will learn from US ALL, if they choose to continue that lifestyle so be it, we can get mad and indignant but in the meantime those 20 children are growing up as individuals, and if we all  attack the way have been brought up to see life rather than show them an example of how best to go about thing s what hope is there?
They see the attack and will stand together.
We all learn from others and if they are seeing a  majority being hard working honest and kind, there is more chance they will be too.
I agree this is across the board.......MPs et al.
But we do as individuals (or should) have consciences and know what is right from wrong.

Karen

It does us a good to have a rant sometimes.   ;)

could not agree with you more karen

poloaussie has written...........

"The children will learn from US ALL, if they choose to continue that lifestyle so be it, we can get mad and indignant but in the meantime those 20 children are growing up as individuals, and if we all  attack the way have been brought up to see life rather than show them an example of how best to go about thing s what hope is there?"

Isn't that why everyone is getting so cross because the children have no choice?  The only time they will know the difference is if they actually see a different way of life and they never will whilst in that environment.

I feel so sorry for them!

Have finally watched the whole thing and while I agree with many who have commented about the buying of booze, cigarettes and the thieving/drink driving etc. 

I do think that there are a few positives being missed.

The family were walking everywhere even going to the local Tescos store is a walk of about 11/2 miles from their home so about 3 miles just to get some shopping and carry it home and the children would have been walking further than that to school and the same back - so they are getting plenty of exercise in comparison with many better off who just hop in the car for everything :)

They were eating 'proper food' with vegetables   in this town there are many who don't ;)  - I haven't smelled any good foodie smells from either of my neighbours for as long as they've been here 1 year and 4 years and the houses are so close that (from past experience) I would smell any cooking ;)

Despite the fact that they have an undeniably 'different' lifestyle, those children were LOVED, none of them showed any sign of being afraid of their parents, no flinching when hands came near, and the children were caring with the little ones, which isn't always the case in every family ;) - again I've known children who are actually AFRAID of their parents, who flinch at hands being near and who PANIC if they think they will get a telling off and behave very warily of neighbours and friends :(

Couldn't help thinking they were like the WALTONS

But with chaos, and dirt, and swearing, and no home comforts :(

dill, they couldn't "hop in the car" to do the shopping..........the dad was banned for drink-driving!  :)

I'd be surprised if it was his own car LOL  more likely someone else owned it ;)

There again you do need a car in this area, the bus routes have big gaps in them and the buses are unreliable at best, and stop running at ridiculously early hours :(   I have to walk a mile to my nearest bus stop  

I shouldn't laugh really but I had to when the Dad said to one of the kids " I won't have you f****** swearing in front of your mother". :)   He did seem to love the kids though, I thought.

Thanks................We'll show 'em then!

Karen :)

" I won't have you f****** swearing in front of your mother".

yep I had to laugh too! Wasn't it 'your f******* mother' :-D

I hope the wee girl keeps working hard at school and the boy who had just gone back to school and wanted to be a pilot? does too because education is one good way out of this kind of poverty.

:)  :) ............and I think he also said "that's one thing I would never do....swear in front of my F***** mother"  ......I feel terrible now for sniggering............not funny really is it?

> Couldn't help thinking they were like the WALTONS <IMG alt=eek src="/images/eek.gif">
>
> But with chaos, and dirt, and swearing, and no home comforts

the waltons for the new millenium :)

As..................tarte!!  :)  :)  :)

what! everyone says the worlds a bit crap now, why not the waltons :)