Hi, I recently homed a cavalier I think I am her 3rd home the first being the breeder the 2nd being the lady I got her from and 3rd myself.
After having her kc papers registed into my name, I noticed she had endorments on her pedigree which I was not made aware of when I purchased her.

The endorsements are 

Progeny Not Eligible for Registration

Not Eligible for the Issue of an Export Pedigree.

I looked on the kc website to find out what they meant and if i can get them removed this is what I found (copy and paste link)

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?d=23&f=0&h=pnhpr&id=784

From this point does it mean I can have it removed?
(2)   If the endorsement is not drawn to the new registered owner's notice, and an acknowledgement in writing of the endorsement, signed at the date of transfer by the new owner is not obtained, then any conflict regarding notice of the endorsement will be resolved in favour of the new registered owner. The endorsement will remain on the register, unless a successful application is made by the new owner of the dog under Regulation B12b.(3) below.

I have sent a letter to the kc and they are responded by telling me to get in contact with the breeder as the breeder can only have it removed am I reading the point above wrong? as I thought this would mean the kc would remove it as I was unaware.
I have the breeders name but no contact or address details and can not get in touch with the lady I got her from. Would the kc be able to give me the breeders details?

Just interested as to why you want to lift the endorsements ?Are you planning on breeding from her ? or moving abroad permanently with the dog & want to show her abroad ?

If none of these are in your plan then there's no need to have them lifted. Breeders put the endorsements on a dogs registration to try to prevent dogs & bitches being used as a puppy producing machines &/or being sold abroad to a country with poor animal welfare laws.

No, the endorsements will not usually be lifted without the breeder's permission - you're quoting from the section that refers to the original transfer from the registered owner who placed the endorsements (ie the breeder) to new ownership. This section is more relevant to your situation :-

(4)   Regulation B12b 1), 2) and 3) only apply where the registered owner who originally placed an endorsement on a dogs record, transfers the dog to a new ownership. If subsequent transfers take place, the endorsement becomes a matter between the parties involved. In such cases the registered owner placing the endorsement shall not be responsible if notification of the endorsement is not given to any new owner, and may exercise his right to decide whether the endorsement be maintained or removed .....

Also note this sentence :

If an endorsement is correctly placed, the KC will not lift it without the specific permission of the breeder - even if the dog changes hands again.

I also wonder why you are wanting to breed?  There could be a good reason why the breeder put these restrictions on.

Unfortunately though yes you are right if you haven't been made aware of the restrictions I believe that you can get them lifted sadly.

I expect the lady you bought her from knew about the endorsements, so unfortunately there is nothing you can do, only if you bought her from the breeder and wasn't told about the restrictions, the KC might intervene, but I doubt it.  Didn't you look at the papers before you bought her??

I place endorsements on my cavs and will lift them when the new owners have carried out the relevent health checks. I get the new owners to sign an agreement to this which is what the kc state you hae to do. Last year i brought a cav and wasnt aware of any endorsements until i got home. I phoned the breeder who informed me that she would lift them once i have supplied her with the relevent paperwork re heart and eye certificates, which of course i will do. However the breeder didnt make me aware of this when i brought the pup or made me sign an aggreement so is infact in breach of the kc rules regarding endorsements and i could infact go straight to them and apply to get them lifted.
I would suggest that you contact the breeder and explain the situation and she should lift them once the relevent health checks etc are done, but if you arent going to breed from your dog that i wouldnt worry about it. Of course i would still recommend that you get any health checks done!

Dont know if anybody else feels same as me, but I would be devastated if one of my puppies changed hands, and the kennel club lifted the endorsement with out my say so.  On the basis that the new people weren't told.  Surely the original contract should stand. otherwise it would leave the way open for any body to give the puppy temporarily to a family member etc, to get the endorsement lifted.  Or have I got the wrong end of the stick.

Now I'm panicking

> Unfortunately though yes you are right if you haven't been made aware of the restrictions I believe that you can get them lifted sadly.

No that's not correct - as long as the endorsements were correctly placed by the breeder (following the KC guidelines for notifying the first new owner), then they won't be lifted even if the dog subsequently changes hands to a third owner who was not aware of their existence.

Minimom this is exactly what happened to a friend of mine, she wasn't happy devastated in fact :-( but I know someone said here last month that the KC were trying to close this loophole, as generally the endorsements were put on for a reason. I endorse mine and have stated that on production of clear health tests at 18 months I will lift the progeny not eligible for registration. OP if you buy from the KC the relevant BRS for your pup it would have contact details.
Angela

If subsequent transfers take place, the endorsement becomes a matter between the parties involved.

does that mean anyone could buy a dog with endorsements, sell it to a relative, buy it back and then make kc lift endorsements?? if this is true the whole thing is a mockery but thats how i am reading it

My understanding is that the endorsement wouldnt be lifted unless the owner could prove that they were unaware when they purchased the dog. (as in my case) My litters that i have endorsed, i would hope if they changed hands, the kc wouldnt lift them. I would be able to prove that i followed the correct procedure so surely this would stand??. I am thinking that if i went direct to the kc with the dog that i purchased last year and asked for the endorsement to be lifted as i could prove that procedures werent followed that the kc wouldnt easily lift the endorsement. I may be wrong but i do hope that they dont lift endorsements quite so easily.

Having quickly skimmed through your previous posts, you have bred a litter earlier this year April/May time-was this from the the bitch mentioned in this thread ? or another bitch that you own  ?

I presume that you want the endorsements lifted so you can breed from her as well or if you have already bred from her-register the puppies  Is this correct ?

No that's not correct - as long as the endorsements were correctly placed by the breeder (following the KC guidelines for notifying the first new owner), then they won't be lifted even if the dog subsequently changes hands to a third owner who was not aware of their existence

DITTO Jane and it says it on the KC website .  It is quite funny how people find the things they want to find on websites.

Reading through said older posts MM the breds mentioned are different.

Thanks Gill

There has been no response from the OP so do we presume the lifting of the endorsement is for breeding-they might have been put on to prevent registration of puppies from a bitch who has breed faults or to try to ensure the bitch is health tested first

Hi Moonmaiden. Was your post re earlier litters meant me for or the OP? I have 3 cavs. The oldest at 3 has just had her first litter in april and i have placed endorsements on her litter. My youngest, who i brought last year, had endorsements on her that i wasnt aware off. I have had eye and heart certificates done but my point was i could go direct to the KC to get the endorsements lifted as i wasnt aware of them when i brought her but i would hope that the KC did everything in their power first to check that this is correct before they were lifted. As others have mentioned what is the point of endorsements if they do lift them so easily?

Not aimed at you Judith my next post should have given you a clue LOL ;-)

>There has been no response from the OP

MMMM I agree endorsements are placed to protect the puppies concerned and on the larger scale try and protect the future of the breed. Trying to find the original breeder and talking to them is the best course of action in these circumstances.

Judith, the breeder should have made you aware of the endorsements placed upon the pup, she would (or should) have got you to sign a contract stating why the endorsements are on the kc reg and stipulations in which she would lift them if any as some breeders will not lift them at all. If you haven't signed this (verbal agreements do not stand) and the breeder cannot produce a copy of this then the KC will lift the endorsements, if you have signed then go back to the breeder and ask if she will lift the endorsements .It would be worth checking through all of the paperwork that your pup came with as we can easily forget things in the excitement of getting a new pup.

Thanks Moonmaiden, I didnt think it was but i just wanted to make it clear that although i could get my endorsement lifted (as nothing was signed etc etc) that i firmly believe that the breeder had still placed them for very good reasons and i have had heart and eye certificates obtained before i would approach the KC. I would hope that other dog owners would also see that there is a reason why breeders endorse their litter and that the new owners respect their breed. It would be a real shame if the KC do lift  endorsements easily.

Thankfully Judith you are responsible but there are plenty that aren't. It may be worth a call to your girls breeder to explain the pitfalls of putting endorsements on but not getting signatures from the purchasers (as I explained in my previous post). The Kc do not lift the endorsements easily but will lift them in favour of the purchaser if the guidelines have not been followed correctly.