Ian Dunbar was on tv in I think, the early 80s - great series filmed in the UK called "Dogs with Dunbar" :) .

I saw that episode and we all make mistakes.  I do think he is good as he does get really good results and to be honest, his methods DO work! even if you don't agree with them, if any cruelty is in any part of his programmes I am sure they would air it & he would be strung up and tarred with feathers!  He is very respected and when I went to America I saw him and you should have seen his audience, and there were vets and (are equivilent of our RSPCA) they were there, so somewhere along the line he's doing something right!xx

>I saw that episode and we all make mistakes.

Mistakes ??? He bullied a sick dog because he thinks he can"cure"every behavioural problem. However it was clear from the outset that there was something medically wrong with the dog, he even tried making it swim & declared that the dog was moving it's legs normally-That poor animal was obviously suffering & he returned it to the rescue after a month & after he finally took it to a vet, who found it was dying & blinf-jeez anyone could see that from the outset

As for no cruelty at best it was negligence not to have the dog vetted first before he started the failed attept @ rehabilitation.

So he draws big audiences-so do many speakers all over the world doesn't mean everything that comes from them is correct nor does the presence of the Animal Welfare Officers or Humane Society Representatives. Hosres are allowed to run after being treated with Bute in the USA & it's not called cruel-it's banned in racing in the UK

Viewers need to watch the programs without the sound on so they can focus on the dog & it's body language.

>Viewers need to watch the programs without the sound on so they can focus on the dog & it's body language.

Agree totally. The story the dogs tell is vastly different to the commentary.

>... if any cruelty is in any part of his programmes I am sure they would air it

No, they don't. I was at a lecture by someone who had seen him filming. The dog was conditioned to respond the ssst noise using a prong collar and a long line - off camera. So of course it looks like that noise just stops dogs without harm when they turn the cameras on.

No, they don't. I was at a lecture by someone who had seen him filming. The dog was conditioned to respond the ssst noise using a prong collar and a long line - off camera. So of course it looks like that noise just stops dogs without harm when they turn the cameras on.

That's interesting, but does not surprise me at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I saw that episode and we all make mistakes.

My view is that if CM was a real professional, and had followed a decent protocol (ie check with vet before treatment) this would not have happened. It wasn't a mistake - it was totally unprofessional and did not have any instinct either. If he'd responded as any half decent trainer, behaviourist or even dog owner would do, that dog would have been at the vet :)

Unfortunately, I agree with Moonmaiden who said he bullied the dog because he thought or likes to think he can "cure" every behaviour problem :(

Hi there,

I didn't know there was so many of you against CM, well his way does work for some people and with one of my dogs it does that because he's 2 and he was a bit hyper but he's ok now but I keep it up each day, not the jerking or touching his neck ect.. the calm assertive way and projecting energy, it does work for me with my older dog.  But I don't think honestly it wouldn't do anything for puppies, I am about to get another Newf (yes another one - am I mad!!!) and I have been reading a lot about 'Clicker Training', I have never done this and dont know how to, I know you can get dvds and books but I would rather to go a class and be taught.  So firstly, what do you think of 'Clicker Training' and would you recommend it? and secondly, are there any really good puppy training classes in the Merseyside area?? I am quite desperate to train my young'un right from the start and of course myself aswell!!

I hope someone can point me in the right direction!  many thanx  x

> not the jerking or touching his neck ect.. the calm assertive way and projecting energy, it does work for me with my older dog.  But I don't think honestly it wouldn't do anything for puppies,

the calm part & 'projecting energy' has worked wonders for my Mastiff pup, he is  my first really big dog and (as I'm sure you know) the play-biting from a giant-breed puppy can be quite nerve-racking!! staying calm, patient and projecting a feeling of confidence really helps :) combine that with reward-based training and you're onto a winner :)

You'll probably get a better response to the clicker-training question if you post it as a seperate thread :)

ETA, the 'projecting a confident energy' I have found to be a must with my Mastiff, he seems very sensetive to how people feel and if he picks up on somebody being nervous he takes advantage.

Clicker training is brilliant :) I did a clicker course with my GR and found it a brilliant way to train. You can pinpoint the desired behaviour so accurately that my dog learnt a huge amount in a relatively short time and it is great to see the dog thinking for himself and working out what it is I wish him to do.

My daughter is doing a clicker course with our youngest dog, who has been exceedingly hard to train, and she and the dog are both loving it and progressing well. It is well worth searching for a course you can take your dog to. Our elder dog was 18 months old when I did my course and clicker training is suitable for all ages and great fun :)

I love clicker training, timing is the essence, as Harley has said you  pin point the desired behaviour, my girl has responded very well to the clicker :) good luck :)

I personally don't agree with CM's methods. It's publicised cruelty - plain and simple and if I was ever naive enough to follow his 'methods' with  my breed it would put us back decades and lose all trust :(

Unfortunately, on my breed list they all think that CM is the DB's and cannot be persuaded otherwise :(

I prefer to stick to incentive based training and clicker training which is the best thing ever :) We all need enticement, not cruelty to learn to work!

> IMO most dog owners are not stupid but too lazy to put in the work and are looking for the 'magic spell' to solve their problems.
>

too right!

Yes and the medium of television is all about serving that desire for "magic" and the "quick fix". Long, laborious and repetitive processes do not good telly make!