My 8 month old Yorkie is going in the vets Tues 1st July to have his retained baby teeth removed (a common yorkie trait) and whilst he's under GA my vet wants to castrate him as he also at present has a retained testicle too. The descended testicle is quite large now and I would be surprised if the retained one drops now, but I just wondered if anyone has experience of their dog's testicles dropping late? I really would rather not have him castrated as the weight and coat probs, he already has a very chaotic and heavy coat as it is! My vet has already expressed to me that he doesn't really want to just remove the retained one and leave the descended one and wants to remove both and I appreciate his reasons, but has anyone ever only had their dogs retained testicle removed and left the descended one? If so was the vet ok about doing it? Thanks X

Your puppy is in no danger from his retained tesicle at this age. I certainly would not castrate him before he is fully grown & has his adult coat. Testosterone is directly linked to the closure of the growth plates in the legs & to remove it before he is fully mature can mean his growth plates do not close & he could grow tall & very leggy, apart from the effect it may have on his coat.

If his retained testicle does not descend then I would have the retained testicle removed when he was over 18 months old

> and I appreciate his reasons

what are his reasons?

dogs require the hormones from complete genetalia to develop properly.

see your posts nice and detailed :)

I had my dogs retained testicle removed and the already descended one left.  My vet was quite understanding of my reasons for not wanting him castrated although I did have to promise that I wouldn't use him for breeding.  If your vet wont do it then I would go to another vet, there is no medical reason for them not to leave the descended testicle.

edit to say - thats a lie, he went in to have it removed but when they opened him up they couldnt find it, happens he only had one to begin with !!

Thank you for this reply, I feel the same but wanted a few other peoples opinions too. I'm going to ring my vet tomorrow and tell him that I would rather wait regards the testical and just do the teeth, thanks again x

The vets reasons for not leaving the descended testicle where that if he got lost for good or had to be re-homed future vets wouldn't know if the retained one was still inside him or not and later in life a retained testicle can be linked to tumour/s and he may have to undergo a GA and be poked about for something thats not there. Thanks for your reply x

Going to another vet if mine won't leave the descended one is exactly what my mum said!
I have (I think, 99.9% sure!) have decided to leave both for the moment, at least until he's much older and then re-assess the situation, by me doing that my vet will also realize how concerned I am about leaving the already descended one and may be if/when the time comes he may be happier to just remove the retained one??? Thank you x

Bit surprised that the vet is removing the tooth at 8 months but guess it may be causing a problem. As to the retained testical it should be removed if it has not dropped by the time he is adult which with a Yorkie will not be very long now. So, if possible, I would suggest leaving it for a while say a month or two and then having the tooth removed and the retained testical leave the descended one where it is.

An undescended testicle at 8 months isn't that unusual. If you can find somebody who has a bitch in season, if you ,(very carefully), allow them to spend time together, obviously not whilst the bitch is standing, this can sometimes encourage the testicle to drop. I have done this successfully by having the two caged next to one another.

sorry i ment what are his reasons for wanting to fully spay, i appreciate the reasons for wanting to remove a retained testicle 9though as i think someone said earlier it might be a bit early)

oh sorry Astarte! The reason the vet was to castrate is because of the retained testicle, he says he has to remove it and therefore wants to remove the other one too for the first reasons I stated.

No his teeth don't seem to be causing a problem I just thought that as this is a common Yorkie problem and lots of Yorkies end up having thier retained teeth removed I would get his removed as it looks pretty uncomfortable as he literally has two rows of teeth top and bottom, looks really weird! But if you think I should wait a little longer and see if they come out themselves then let me know because as I said they don't seem to be causing him any probs and the gums don't look red or swollen. I have a Yorkie X JRT too and she had her canine teeth removed as they were retained by the same vet.

seems a bit over eager to my view. as the others have said the retained on might drop yet (the bitch idea was a good one) and why castrate him? is it just me or a vets a bit keen on this?

> My vet has already expressed to me that he doesn't really want to just remove the retained one and leave the descended one and wants to remove both and I appreciate his reasons,

What are his reasons?

To prevent any vet in the future doing an unnecessary procedure to look for it if they are unaware of the history for any reason.  Wonkydog has already explained :-)

Sorry missed that but would not accept it as a good argument, the dogs owner or records should be available to a different vet if needed and it is not too difficult to ask.

As Wonkydog explained dogs do end up in rescue without a history sometimes.

Not not a good argument, what about bitches that have been spayed ?? you wouldnt know unless you opened them up.

Indeed, although you would know if they came into season, but if you can prevent it happening to half the population you could say it is an arguement for it.

sorry, argument for what ?  (im losing the plot today !!)

An arguement for removing both testicles when one is retained :-)

Oh I see, yes you are right.

My vets argument was the fact it is inherited and didnt want the gene passed on.

But that is assuming the owner is incapable of looking after the dog in an acceptable fashion to say nothing of the unwanted side effects of castration that could be avoided by leaving the healthy testis in place.

Leaving aside the fact that many rescue societies will want to neuter their animals as part of their responsibility ethos they may still have the difficulty of not knowing if they have a potentially harmful undescended testicle on sight of the descended one even if they did have no plans to castrate him.

Bit confused here, know anything can happen but should we, or the vet, be assuming the OP is going to allow or put this dog into rescue. If we based all our decisions and care of our dogs on this premise I think the general level of care may be very different.

Bearing in mind most vets will hold that castration is generally beneficial so it seems a reasonable arguement that this is one more factor that makes sense of doing the whole job when the dog in having an operation under general anaesthesia anyway.

> If we based all our decisions and care of our dogs on this premise I think the general level of care may be very different.

I can't really think of any other instances that this would apply to but there are always lots of factors in any decision of this type.

Unfortunatly I do not think vets are the best people to decide on this.

You are entitled to your opinion but it is rather hard for me to appreciate who would be better qualified to understand all the factors involved :-)

Possibly owners who have to live with the consequences 24/7? ;-)

Well, yes :-).  I'm not one of those that think every non breeding male need be castrated.  From what I have understood on the subject the pros and cons present such a fine distinction that it boils down to whatever suits the owner which in the majority of cases is what happens.  But when a dog is presented to a vet with a particular set of issues, be they medical or behavioural, I do think the vets opinion on how the pros and cons then fall is likely to be as qualified as any other "people" and probably more so.

Problem is vets are trained to treat animal illness and a good number are brainwashed at college, according to some students, into trying to get owners to neuter for reasons only known to them, add to that the fact that very few vets are dog owners in the true sense and I think you will see they may not be the best people to take advice from in all situations when it comes to dog management.

> and a good number are brainwashed at collage, according to some students, into trying to get owners to neuter for reasons only known to them

Really?  That doesn't sound likely considering they are selected from the brightest applicants and will have already attained a good standard of study skills that would make "brainwashing" rather hard to pull off.  The "brainwashers" may wish to keep their reasons to themselves, although I am not sure they do as I think we have all heard the arguement for neutering, but students in any higher education these days would definately be looking for rationales and will expect to be seen to study all sides of an arguement.
I think it is over simplifying to say vets only treat animal illness when we all know at least two instances of preventative medicine that they practice, agree with them or not ;-) and their studies will certainly have encompased the animal in health ie maximising fertilility, productivity etc not to mention aetiology ie the factors that predispose to disease.
Have you any statistics on how many vets own dogs?  Of all the vets I have had over the years only the current one does not actually own a dog but her father breeds them.

Well, as you said yourself "You are entitled to your opinion " I believe those students I have spoken to, even those who agree with the neuter everything you can, will tell you that they are continually being told that is the way to go; when you ask why they don't really know except that is what they have been told.

Oh dear, let's hope they develop more enquiring minds before they get to their dissertations :-) 
They will not have to look far, anyone with an internet connection can research the arguements for and against.

i work with a large number of vets, most of whom own their own dogs, and vets i worked with in the past have always owned dogs?? they are dog lovers as much as the rest of us.