Hello!

I am the lucky owner of an Norwegian 15 month old Flat Coat named Rufus, and I have developed a interest for the story of Flat Coated Retrievers.

That's also why I started to resarch my dog Rufus's ancestors and I now have 25 generations, unfortunately it's realy hard to get any further wihtout help. Most of the sources on Internet stops around 1950 except for some very few lines witch also stop between the two wars.
I know a lot of work was done in this periode to save the breed but the documentation is hard to find.

Is there anyone in her that has information of the Claverdon breeding (Jorrocks of Lilling, Bronteor Powderbox), Atherbram Warrior or Atterbram Simon.

If so I would be realy pleased to here from you, I miss the links for about 20 Flat's in my database. (A lot will probably point to Atherbram Gunner and like, but still the link is not there....)

Another problem I have got is Glidesdown Kingfisher, my sources and Internet give me different information than the Books I've got.


Glidesdown Kingfisher (Falswift Apparition, GBCH + Glidesdown Tabatha)

Falswift Apparition, GBCH (Shargleam Blackcap, IRLCHGBCH + Halstock Primula of Ravenscrest,GBCH)
Glidesdown Tabatha ( Kenjo Black Knight + Glidesdown Keepsake )

Trouble is Kingfisher of the mating to Glidesdown Tabatha or Tabitha?
Is Tabatha/Tabitha's mum Glidesdown Keepsake or Glidesdown Blackbird?

Internet says what is listed above, the book says the alternatives...

Best Regards and hopefully someone knows

Thøger

URL Snipped : Terms of Service

Welcome to the forum Thøger :-)

We have a few Flatcoat owners and breeders on the site and I am sure that they will be interested in your post and might even be able to help you :-)

Good luck

Leigh

hi welcome to chamdogs,i have 4 f/c and due a litter next week,but a bit of problam with her the moment,look under brie 52 day dischage post,iwould love to help you out but at the moment i got my hands full,hope jo or polly will see this post and they would love to help,look under f/c breeders under this site go to glenturret thats my lot.

Hello to both, and thank you for your welcome greetings
I hope indeed that next week will work out fine and without any problems.
 
Had a look at Glenturret, their website is just one page, and the four f/c registered here are too "young" to show the information Im looking for.
Yes, earlier post from Polly has already helped me with the Riverflight line (I think it was). Main problem now is lack of information and wrong information on the Internet.
 
Again good luck, and I will continue to search.

Thøger

Hello Thøger!

Delighted to have a Norwegian Flatcoat person on board!

Just looking up as much as I can while I'm on line, but may add to it when I go off line.

Glidesdown Kingfisher was by Ch Falswift Apparition out of Glidesdown Tabitha. Tabitha's Mum was Glidesdown Keepsake.

You will find Dr Nancy Laughton's book 'A Review of the Flat-Coated Retriever' quite useful with the oldies.
Just looking them up, and will post again when I have found anything.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats.

Hi!

I must say I like the site and what you all are doing here; everyone seems so friendly and helpful.

Glidesdown Tabitha: is this a sister of Tabatha or is half of the Internet full of spelling mistakes? When I search for Kingfisher I get almost 50/50 on both, Keepsake is also what I believe is the right, reason I wonder about this is that Blackbird is put in her place in the book The World of Flat Coated Retrievers (Julia).
I will try to get Laughton's book, this is the one that goes most in dept regarding the early breeding right?
Thank you for helping me out!

Thøger

Thoger,
Welcome to the board, in my experience spelling mistakes do happen on pedigrees from time to time.
Anne

Hello Thøger again!

Just found some more for you


Eng Ch. Jorrocks of Lilling Sire Pewcroft Page Dam Claverdon Powderbox
Atherbram Warrior Sire Atherbram Gunner Dam Atherbram Jetty
Atherbram Gunner Sire Atherbram Prince Dam Rettendon Dido
Atherbram Simon Sire Dual Ch. Toby of the Hill Dam Atherbram Duchess

Atherbram Gunner was the sire of Claverdon Jet, who was the dam of Claverdon Powderbox.
Claverdon Powderbox was line-bred to Atherbram Gunner.
The famous Ch Waterman FTW was by Atherbram Simon out of Atherbram Meg.

Hope this helps.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Hello Jo, and thank you!

Have a couple of questions to your mail: Dual Ch. does that mean inb FT and SH (Toby of the Hill)
I also got a mail today telling me that Claverdon Powderbox was by Waterman and Claverdon Jet, and yesterday I found some other links missing (not the one asking for here, so all this gives me a lot of information).

I do have one question, what kind of database program is people using for this, I now use Brothers Keeper :) and I have to say that an ancestor chart now is printed on 150 pages, starting to get a bit hard to follow all the links. Any suggestions?
I will enter the information tonight, and certainly I will end up with some questionmarks :)

Best Regards Thøger

Yes, Dual Champion means both Field Trial Champion and Show Champion - certainly not easy to get, but possibly easier in the days when numbers were fewer. That is not the same as a full champion (just Ch.) when the dog is mainly just for show, but has been proved to be capable of picking a warm bird with a soft mouth.

I don't use a data base, I'm afraid, so can't help you on that - I'm old-fashioned and use books!!!

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Hi,

My dad uses Brothers Keeper for the family history and he finds it takes up a lot of space on his hard drive. He's researched both his and my mums families back to the 1400's.

He's been looking around for a different program to use but he hasn't found anything suitable yet. He's still looking so if he finds something I'll let you know.

Fiona
x x x

I starting to learn it now, but gosh I use a lot of ink and paper on this :) computer makes paper redundant right?

Well, still if anyone has any good Ideas about software for this work Im interested, else I can see a market for my programming skills :)

Thøger

Hello!

Thanks for all response so far! Right now I have got as long as I can before I get new sources. The book mentioned earlier is ordered, but hard to get.

I have also got some tip's about where to find what, but still I have a lot of dead ends.. just entered in Rufus's mum and her lines, and most is common but some new.
Here is some names I cant figure out, anyone?

CH Waveman (W kennel but when/where) (dog: Blakeholm Jem, puppies: Jane of Windgather
Atherbram Thor (Puppies: Ryshot Copper Rambler)
Rastus and Gwyneth of Adlington (puppies: Bryn of Adlington)
Hartshorn Moonshine (puppies: Hartshorn Gaff)
Mimosa of Halstock (puppies: cowboy and commando)

I do not dear to post anymore, this is some hard ones :)

Thøger "(The seeker)"

Waveman was by Blakeholme Jem out of Wave

Atherbram Thor:- Atherbram Pedro, Atherbram Sarah

Rastus of Adlington:- Kala Rat of Adlington, Dawn of Adlington

Gwyeneth of Adlington:- Revival of Ettington, Miss Jumbo of Adlington

There's a few for you and I don't even have that breed.

Regards, John

Hi Thanks a lot!

Blakeholme Jem I had, out of Wave is that the rest of the name or .. ?
Else closed 3 lines, and opened 3 new ones (that's why it's fun and sometimes frustrating :)
Miss Jumbo and Miss Celeste is this from same breed/Pedigree?

Do you know a affex names Springon?

Thanks again :)
Thøger

Wave was a bitch born 1/2/57 Sired by Workman out of Claverdon Tawny Pippit

The only Springdon I know was Renza and I have no info on that one even. It came in on the back line of a dog I was interested in.

Strange to tell that although I am in Labradors my database of Flatcoats is bigger than my Lab database!

Regards, John

Thanks again!

I thought it was hard some weeks ago when I got stuck, but it's only getting harder. Would not mind living in England with access to all the libraries when working on this.

If Labradors is your main interest I agree it's strange, specially since it was three times as many labradors that survived the war times than it was f/c's.

Thøger

Not as strange as you may think, I get dragged kicking and screaming into the Flatcoat Arena! :D

Hi Thoger,

I've just found this web site and I think I may be able to help you. I have a database of FCR's that I've collected over the last 15 years (on and off). I use both Excel and Basic to generate the pedigrees. The database is stored in Excel (although you can use Access). Excel can also create the pedigree but is slows down after 12 generations. This is due to the in-line and cross breeding checks that has to be made. IN saying that Excel can produce 12 generations in 20 seconds or so.

I have helped many people trace their FCR ancestors, I don't charge, but I would like to swap names that I am missing.

Blakeholme Jem Pewcroft Pitcher x Blakeholme Joke (from Nancy Laughton's book)

Miss Jumbo of Adlington is one I don't have at the moment but she is athe dam of Gwyneth of Adlington

Miss Celeste Buzzard x Salthill Special

There's a few to start you of - if you can give me the name of your dog and its parents I'll see what pops out of my database.

Regards

Terry

Hello Terry!

Thanks for answers, it is a while since I posted this and some of the answers I already have.
I am still working on pedigree's and I do hope we can help each other!
I am currently using Brothers Keeper a program for human research, a while I go (mainly based on John's recommendations:) ). I bought BreedMate PedEx, and have built my own converter between these two programs in Visual Basic (Using Access as a merge database between)

To help you with Miss Jumbo of Adlington:
She was born 19th May 1938 and is by Kala Rat of Adlington x Dawn of Adlington

Rufus's pedigree is this:

(Rufus's real name is: L'Abée's Trufus The Country Man)

Sire: Bunyan's Agaton the Countryman (Bunyan’s Miss Ditto Ditto Harrison x Int Nord ShCH, NoObidience CH Coalport Country Man)
Dam Lhaxy's Stinnie (Nuch Klokkeråsen's Richard Burton x Lhaxy's Lilli-Marlene)

You can find further back on my homepage

Best Regards

Thøger