http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts-reviews/revolutions-forms-that-turn/2008/06/12/1212863824987.html

Absolutely appauling. Whos to blame, the artist - yes, but the people who go into the gallerys to view this are even worse.
SICK!!!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1301615.ece
...and to make matters worse The Sun go and make a joke out of it

That is so sick and disgusting, how people can go and see this is beyond me, very upsetting indeed. :(

I feel sick now. :-( :-(

Art is a very strange world, it always amazes me what people see as art!

people call anything art, just because they give it an 'intellectual'  sounding description as to why, and there are enough idiots who believe anything they hear. I also think this is tragic and has no artistic merit whatsoever, and I am frequently amazed at the rubbish people pay to see.

Totally sick!

I suppose it is a species we are more fond of but is it so different to Damien Hirst's sharks or indeed calves?  It's certainly challenging but isn't that one of the roles art often plays?

Personally I feel similarly about that 'work' too, anything can be giving a flowery description of why it is supposedly art and gullible people fall for it and even shell out silly sums of money to add to the hype. Other than thinking 'fools and their money' I don't care too much unless there is any actual cruelty involved (human or animal) .

what sort of world do we live in to allow this awful thing to happen? makes me ashamed to be a part of the 'human race'

> anything can be giving a flowery description of why it is supposedly art and gullible people fall for it and even shell out silly sums of money to add to the hype.

Possibly, although many art movements that were considered very challenging in their days have proved the test of time and even gained widespread popularity.  Personally I think this exhibit is rather intriguing.  The first article is rather "flowery" as you say :-) but what they say about the artists comment on the consumer culture together with the history connections certainly captures my interest.  If it was staged rather nearer I may be tempted to take a closer look to see if I could work anything out for myself.  I haven't bothered reading the Suns comments :-D

> what sort of world do we live in to allow this awful thing to happen?

What awful thing?  The horse is dead.  It is taxidermy.  There has been no suggestion of any cruelty. 
I wonder if people saw a stuffed horse in a museum they would be as repulsed.  Might they even reach out and pat its neck if it was permitted?  You see there is so much more to this than the Sun would have us believe :-)

I can't bear this sort of 'art' (and I use the term in loosest possible sense), but here's the thing - people have been having animals stuffed for ornamental purposes for hundreds of years.  What makes this so different?  In almost every antique shop you go into there'll be something stuffed and gazing at you with those hideous sightless eyes.  Just because they call this art and charge money to see it makes little difference.

Debs

I wonder if it is the typo that the artist is willing to slaughter "scared cows" that is upsetting people :-)

I wouldn't need to see a dead horse hanging up in order to ponder consumer culture or anything else. As with a lot of modern 'art ' the person who produced it needs to explain what it is supposed to represent rather than having produced something with any intrinsic worth.  Eg I could photograph the messy breakfast table in the morning and say well actually it represents our hurried modern lifestyle, packets of ready made food hurriedly eaten etc standing for our consumer society with no time etc etc (probably someone has done something like that already) I wouldn't really need any talents other than a good imagination and plenty of self belief. Then folk go along and say yes how very profound, I just think it is a lot of nonsense for people with too much time and money, but like I say that's just my opinion and I have no objection unless there had been cruelty inflicted which in this case there hopefully has not been.

Not only is this display extremely bad taste but it has nothing to do with art. The horse was created by nature not the skills of any 'artist' and the hoist I'm sure is no different than any found at an abattoire or equine vet facility. To claim the credit for this display this person must be severely lacking in any artist ability themselves. Bad taste and a rip off.

You are right, some people just don't need art  :-) but the fact that so many people seem to be repulsed, shocked or whatever rather than just ignoring it for the rubbish they say it is suggests to me it is having a more profound effect than they perhaps think.

The horse is dead - what's the problem? My favourite part in the local museum is all the stuffed animals, taxidermy is a valid art form :-)

edited to say, replied to the first post without reading further down...as usual Isabel has managed to say what I wanted too far better :-D

> I wonder if it is the typo that the artist is willing to slaughter "scared cows" that is upsetting people

That did make me laugh I must admit!

Debs

I think its great. :)
It is no different to the Wheasel, Tawny owl, European Barn owl and the king fisher my mum and dad got stuffed by the local Taxidermist when I was younger :) (all found dead on the walks we went on)  She uses then to paint her fine art paintings :)
I remeber someone getting their dead dog stuffed as they could bear to be parted from it :) :)  ( Deffinatly not my cup Tea LMAO)
Lea :)

i can kind of see the point of taxidermy but why take the very traditional practise, hang it from a ceiling and claim its this astonishing piece of modern art?? as folk have said, nip to any antique shop and guarenteed there will be dead things for sale. just bemuses me.

I suppose because its not something you see LOL
I must admit, he hs done a good job of making it look alive!!!
Lea :)

I'm not evengoing to look at it.

its not particularly distressing, it doesn't look dead or grotty. it just seems pointless to me. it upsets me that this guys had probably had funding to do this and will be paid a ton when really wonderful artists are skrimping by. i hate that this is what my generation might be remembered for, its just ttrying to be extreme and fails to be impressive.

but taxadermy is something you see. i went to the natural history museum in NY last year, dead stuffed elephants, gorillas etc, nothing unusual or upsetting appart form the species and each exhibit was very old, from back when it was considered acceptable to hunt them. now they are used to educate about the rarity of these creatures so at least have served a purpose. not sure hanging them from the ceiling would have made them any more impressive. some of the dino skeletons were hung up... just made them hard to photograph, but that was done to make them fit!

Don't worry Astarte, I doubt your generation will be remembered for challenging the established art world anymore than all the generation before that have done the same :-)

good stuff, mon' the renaissnance!

Speaking as someone who gets paid for painting, I've always considered that end of the 'Art' world the ultimate expression of THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES ;)

Everybody one..... two..... three....

"The King is in the altogether, the altogether, he's altogether as naked as the day that he was born!"

Now taxidermy I can understand and there is really an 'art' to it ;) 

Hanging a horse from the ceiling just seems to me very sad :(

> Speaking as someone who gets paid for painting, I've always considered that end of the 'Art' world the ultimate expression of THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES ;-)

lol, I get paid for drawing!!!! & I completely agree with you, Picasso's refracted period I understand, this sort of thing - just takes the mick out of those who are gullable enough to part with thier money to see it.

I can not see how hanging a dead, stuffed animal from a cieling is art??? anybody could do it, there is no talent involved and (IMO) the only imagination the 'artist' has is how to imagine new ways to get famous & make loads of money without any artistic talent :(

Dill I absolutely agree with you. 

Just to add, if the taxidermy was actually carried out by the 'artist' then he must at least possess some skill. But if he just hung up the animal prepared by someone else then the joke is really on those who part with any money to fund it. 

There are many forms of Art, Dill.  By painting I presume you mean your art is depicting things as they are, you strive for truth perhaps but not all artist are painters. 
You might not see this as art and yet you admit it makes you feel something, in your case sadness.  It may be he is parading round in his birthday suit and I am falling for it :-) but he certaintly is eliciting plenty of response and emotion.

> lol, I get paid for drawing!!!! & I completely agree with you, Picasso's refracted period I understand, this sort of thing - just takes the mick out of those who are gullable enough to part with thier money to see it.
>
> I can not see how hanging a dead, stuffed animal from a cieling is art??? anybody could do it, there is no talent involved and (IMO) the only imagination the 'artist' has is how to imagine new ways to get famous & make loads of money without any artistic talent :-(

exactly!! the labradoodle swindlers are more artists, at least they have developed excellent marketing! its a horse hanging from a ceiling, big whoop.

well i suppose if bemusement is what your looking for...

> its a horse hanging from a ceiling, big whoop.

lol, that made me laugh :-D

I'm not sure some posters would not laugh if you tried to sell them one of Picasso's refracted images :-).  You may understand them but many don't and feel as you do over this piece.  I feel as long as people respond with any emotion to something, whether you feel you like it or not or even understand why it makes you feel the way you do, it is art.

I'm glad that I read the whole thread, I wasn't sure if I were looking at adrugged, dying or dead horse, glad for it's sake that it is dead.

How is it art?

I love to paint that is art, today anything is classed as art, it astonishes me what people buy into today, there is absolutely no talent to these things and they should not be taking up gallery space from those with talent, are people going mad. I want to see real art in a gallery, paintings, sculptures, I know one man's meat is anothers poison, but honestly art............ I think not! :-(

So that's it.  Just paintings and sculptures?  Just stuff that accurately depicts things as close to the truth as possible?

> I'm not sure some posters would not laugh if you tried to sell them one of Picasso's refracted images

i'd laugh then say "how do you think i can afford that!?"

i'm certainly not an expert and don't have an artistic bone in my body but surely art should try to convey something and i cannot for the life of me figure out what thats trying to convey. even the sick and awful starving dog exhibit i can kind of understad a purpose to, it shows death, it tests our emotions towards a tamed creature or could show how base a supposedly domestic animal can become in the face of starvation. not that i agree, i think its repellent, but i can sort of see a point where as this is not particularly shocking, it does not say anything in particular all it does is faintly irritate people. if that was the artists aim i doubt he'll go down in the annuals of history nor will his "work" be rembered beyond the end of the exhibit.

waste of a dead horse and some gallery space.

> So that's it.  Just paintings and sculptures?  Just stuff that accurately depicts things as close to the truth as possible?

truth is relative and can be portrayed in a variety of ways, but what truth is this trying to convey?

I rather expect and accept I will not understand or appreciate everything that is exhibited as art but I have never felt that in itself meant it wasn't, as the narrowness of people views vary tremendously so why should I believe myself to be on the absolute edge of understanding.
Oh, well I'm sure the old debate of "but is it art" :-) will rage on for many generations if not to the end of man :-)

Paintings and sculptures capture so much, each artist is different and they can be just as weird, wacky and wonderful, as anything else, you don't need to use once living creatures or starving dogs, or bags of rubbish on the floor, that just isn't art to me, but shock and causing people to talk about it, therefore getting their names in the papers etc, but it really is not talent at all.

I can spend all day in a gallery, I've always appreciated the world of art and it is something to aspire to, who in their right minds would wish to aspire to hanging a horse from a ceiling, it's just not cricket is it? :-) Oh, what is the world coming to.

Maybe I should clarify a bit.....

I feel 'Art' should speak for itself - everyone will react/respond differently to what they see/experience and that is the point.  Picasso's work needs no-one to stand by explaining it, nor any little card of explanation, it elicits a response, even if it's only bemusement.  Looking at the development of Picasso's work, I long ago came to the conclusion that Picasso was taking the P*ss out of the art world and the critics and making money at their expense  :-D  The kind of 'art' that this horse belongs to is a continuation of this but without the honesty of Picasso ;)   Indeed, the sort of exhibition produced by the likes of Tracy Emin/Damian Husrt etc. is primarily motivated by the pursuit of notoriety and the large amounts of cash offered as prizes by various art organisations.  One could say that the Art or skill here is the aquisition of money :(  I would count breeders/sellers of designer dogs in this category too ;)

> it's just not cricket is it?

pmsl carrington, dunno why but i just found that really funny. it conjures up all these concepts of britishness, stiff upper lips, cucumber sandwiches, Pimms and proper behaviour lol, far more artistic than the dead horse which made me wonder if it would start to smell :)

anyone know how the horse died? hope it didnt die to satisfy ART!

We have a musuem here with plenty of stuffed animals, even our RCMP musuem has a horse- think its like the tallest horse or something... My brother in law is one of the worlds best taxidermist and he does extordinary work, very talented he is.  As long as the animal wasn't hung up alive and left to starve (like that dog was), and the animal wasn't purposely killed then Iam ok with that i guess- each to their own.

I cannot draw for toffee, but have a few arty friends and can appreciate many different forms of art. Some i dont understand but others i do and enjoy.
I do not disagree with the stuffed animals we see in museums. They are donkeys years old and used long ago for education purposes. What i disagree with is the fact now we are more educated and i hate to think animals are purposely being used for this sort of thing.

How would you feel if you walked into an art gallery and saw a horse suspended from the ceiling of the room. I think it is extremely distasteful not to mention quite scary and spooky if you were in the room looking up for it.
To me it is not art but creepy and weird. YUK

As far as I can see just because something causes you to feel an emotion does not automatically make it art. There are plenty of images I could view which I would find upsetting for example but if that alone gives them validity as art then I find that quite worrying. Where do we draw the line? Also, discussing this with my 8 year old last night he could immediately see that if he wished to become a 'famous artist' he would do well to think of a shocking new idea for 'art' which hasn't been thought of before, give it an interesting title perhaps, get some column inches, doesn't really matter if he has little actual talent becuase there are always a few gullible folk out there. Someone like Picasso was actually a talented artist pushing boundaries, these days boundaries are pushed so far people just need to keep increasing shock factor and then get talked about as if they are saying something remarkable - people will do anything for fame and fortune of course!

I can not see how hanging a dead, stuffed animal from a cieling is art??? anybody could do it, there is no talent involved and (IMO) the only imagination the 'artist' has is how to imagine new ways to get famous & make loads of money without any artistic talent

LOL very true. Its a stuffed horse hanging from the rafters...and the point is? Maybe I could become a great artist by going to an auction, buying a few stuffed animals and hanging them from the rafters of some building and say its art, would I then be paid thousands of pounds....well, if the public are stupid enough, gulable enough, excentric enough to think this is art in any form and pay me ...well maybe I should have a go :) :) :) :) After all the human body parts, human poo, have already been done...:( Using the media as the great tool it is, this rather strange person has received much free advertising, and no doubt generated much conversation of how the heck it could be art, yes people will talk about him and some will visit to see what the fuss is about, and some person with more money than sense will buy what is essentially....a stuffed horse!....for a vast sum of money.

Thank goodness there remain many true artists that still have the magical power to transform a scene onto paper, canvas, or in clay, and make it come alive. No dead eyes, no lack of movement, no death, they are wonderful and the true artists, not rip off merchants.

You'll never see it in a gallery or museum, but this is definately art to me :)   The skill involved is amazing!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488428/American-artist-transforms-Waterloo-station-3D-Michelangelo-street-art.html

http://bp1.blogger.com/_cxmptAPYR-s/R74jK-rGE1I/AAAAAAAACOA/njBnkel-LmM/s1600-h/waterfall-3d-8.jpg

WOW Dill, that is truely amazing! makes you breathless, especially the second link, I love water....amazing. And real skill. :)