Just wondered what brand of calcium supplement those of you who feed a home cooked diet use? I'm following the recommended diets on B-naturals for my adult toy breed.I bought a tin of Beaphar Bone builder from PAH and the recommended daily amount is about 10x the amount that is recommended on the B-naturals site which is confusing.I don't really want to go to the hassle of grinding eggshell,I'd rather just buy a calcium supplement.Thanks.

You can buy any of the "straight" (no added vitamins or minerals) intended for people.  If you search the web, you'll find them.  I bought the chewable calcium tablets from Holland and Barrett recently.  They have a bit if extra stuff in there to make them palatable that is not needed (like a bit of sugar and a smidgen of salt) but my dogs get so little it's not something I am concerned about. 

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/vf/labels/004440HB.pdf

If your dogs are fed a balanced diet they do not need added calcium this can be detrimental to their bones and joints, a good way to make sure they are getting enough calcium is to feed them raw chicken wings and if you don't like feeding them whole then mince them.

I think you will find if you crack a raw egg for your dog you won't have to grind the shells, they will probably woof it down with the rest, ours do!:-D

Perry,

You will note that the poster said she feeds a home COOKED diet.  Mine are fed mostly home cooked foods, I do not feed raw meats and I do not give my dogs raw bones.  My vet's surgery has seen the consequences of feeding raw bones too many times; a good friend lost a dog recently thanks to a perforated windpipe from a so-called "safe" raw chicken wing, so I choose not to even though others may feel there is no problem.  They also believe that the raw feeders in their practice have more than the normal amount of problems with intestinal bugs, especially from salmonella (common in raw chicken).   I am not so sure about raw anything giving dogs bugs; given what dead and decaying animal/vegetable stuff my dogs will eat without any noticeable effects :-( .  And generally, I expect there is no problem with raw bones, but many of us would rather not take the chance of being the exception to the rule.  By the same token, I leave rawhide alone and any of the so-called "edible" bones (like the fully edible Nylabones, etc.) So you can call me risk averse. 

For anyone feeding a home cooked diet you do need to provide a supplemental source of calcium.  

Cairnmainia, yes I did notice the op fed a home cooked diet.  The reason I suggested mincing chicken wings is that I know some people are nervous feeding whole raw wings.  There is no way you could get a blockage or perforated anything with raw minced wings.  Also, there is more danger of problems with cooked bones which are sold in pet shops and rawhide, than there is with raw soft chicken wings or lamb bones.

I have 2 dogs on a raw diet, both healthy and touch wood do not suffer from illnesses which a lot of dogs fed on pet food suffer from.  My last dog was fed pet food and was at the vets on at least a monthly basis, in fact more like weekly.  As for gut problems, dogs are able to cope with raw food much better than cooked, so are less likely to get salmonella with raw food as long as it is decent raw food and not 'for animal use' my dogs are fed fresh meat and bones from our local butcher.  The majority of dogs digestive systems can cope better with raw food then cooked and that is a fact. 

As long as the diet suits the dog, then that is the most important thing, to say that feeding raw causes blockage problems and salmonella anymore than a pet food diet is totally wrong.

If you are feeding a home cooked diet then the dogs should be getting calcium from the food and in my opinion do not need supplements.

Finely gound bone is a good source of calcium & phosphorus (for those not wanting to feed whole bones). :)

http://www.thepetcenter.com/xra/bonecomp.html

> so are less likely to get salmonella with raw food as long as it is decent raw food and not 'for animal use'

my pup eats raw green tripe (not fit for human consumption), he's 10 months old & the only thing that's ever upset his belly was some boiled carrots (raw carrots don't effect him).

Raw food carries a salmonella risk even if it is for the human food chain (ie. raw chinken), a dogs digestive tract is suited to cope with it, but this is not to say a dog will not get salmonella - they can get it  from food (raw/contaminated cooked food)/coming into contact with poo with it on/coming into contact with dogs bums that have it on etc... :(

>As long as the diet suits the dog, then that is the most important thing,

couldn't agree more :)

Mastifflover,

The link you provide actually does point out that fragments from raw bones can cause significant problems on the way "out" or can cause obstructions, btw.

Agree that raw anything is unlikely to cause problems in dogs; I was stating what my vets have observed with their clients.  Given they have not done a controlled study, I take it for what it is - observation and not fact. 

Final ground bone is a good source of calcium & phosphorus and perfectly balanced; but typically home cooked food has too much phosphorous in relation to calcium.

Meat without the bone is high in phosphorous, low in calcium.  So unless someone is starting from scratch and cooking meat on the bone and then grinding it all down to a pulp (so cooked bone fragments cannot cause problems) the diet is going to be too low in calcium.  Hence, you need to supplement with calcium.

only thing that's ever upset his belly was some boiled carrots (raw carrots don't effect him).

Only thing that upset one of my boys is cooked chicken, makes him very very sick!  Absolutely fine with raw!

> The link you provide actually does point out that fragments from raw bones can cause significant problems on the way "out" or can cause obstructions, btw.

I know, I don't feed my dogs bones for those reasons (as well chipped/broken teeth) :) but I didn't want to start an argument with people that do - they obviously do what they feel is right for thier dogs and I don't want to start picking :(

I don't feed cooked, I feed tripe & mixer, complemented with complete, the only suppliments I give are Glucosamine, I have no idea about other diets - I just thought the ground bone may be an alternative for people who like to feed as natural as poss but don't like to feed whole bones :)

> Only thing that upset one of my boys is cooked chicken, makes him very very sick!  Absolutely fine with raw!

dogs are funny things!!!! It's amazing what they can eat with no effects including nasty stuff (manky green slimy chicken out of a rubbish bag!!!!!!), yet the most seemingly innocent food can cause an upset!

Sorry Mastifflover, I thought because you were recommending whole raw chicken wings you were advocating feeding whole, raw bones.  

Ground bone is a good alternative to whole bones - it's used in many high quality prepared pet foods, like Naturediet.  It's just that if you feed a significant amount of extra meat you need to offset the phosphorous with calcium only; which is the case for me.

Years ago I bought some bone meal from Walcal or Walfcal (?).. and when I opened the tub I was shocked.  It was crushed into small pieces but was definitely not powdered.  This stuff was as dry as possible and there were pieces of bone in it that were as sharp as the edge of a razor blade.  Nasty stuff. 

> Sorry Mastifflover, I thought because you were recommending whole raw chicken wings you were advocating feeding whole, raw bones. 

lol, no worries :)  but I didn't recommend whole chicken wings, that was somebody else !! :)

Double sorry!  I should either be paying more attention to my job ... or more attention to Champdogs!  LOL

Many thanks for the replies.The diet I'm giving is only very lightly cooked just to make it more palatable,I would much rather just feed it completely raw but my pap isn't that keen on it that way.Although I have to say I don't think I would be brave enough to give her raw meaty bones.Thanks for the link,mastifflover,that's very interesting.As my bitch is so tiny cost doesn't come into my choice of what to feed her,I just want the best possible diet for her.Is it ok to liquidise the eggs with their shells? The pieces of eggshell are then very small but not completely ground.Does anyone else feed eggs this way?

>Is it ok to liquidise the eggs with their shells? The pieces of eggshell are then very small but not completely ground.Does anyone else feed eggs this way?>

Yes it is perfectly OK to feed eggshells in whatever form in most dogs diet :-)

For those of you that are confused or are against the BARF diet may I recommend the BritBarf site. Good factual information that can educate, thereby giving you an informed choice :-)

I just have to add I hope I haven't caused offence with the link I put up (re. bones) :(
I don't feed bones, but fully respect the choice of those that do :)
Bones can cause problems for dogs, but then dogs also choke on kibble!!! There is no 100% risk free food, anything can be choked on and lots of things can cause a blockage. Not feeding bones is my personal choice & I wouldn't like to advise/tell anyone weather they should or shouldn't feed bones to thier dogs :)
I happily feed raw food to my pup (not my old mutt - he'd rather eat cooked meat *rollyeyes*).