I know what you mean Tooolz - it is great to watch them for the first few weeks but there's not a lot you can actually do - it is more about making sure Mum's needs are catered for.  But then suddenly they become little personalities overnight who want to play and interact (as well as eat and poo a lot!)  That is the best time and I resented having to go to work even though it was only for a short time each day.  The puppies loved to play - I have videos of the 4 of them playing tug of war with a frisbee with our boy in the back garden.  He was an absolute star and helped us teach them how to play.

> It is perfectly possible that I could have allowed my bitch to have her litter outside, in the shed, with no heating and she may have reared all the pups successfully

A little exteme and of course not what I meant at all :-)

> I am unlikely to change the way I do things next time.
>

No- maybe it will take several litters before you re-assess your whole breeding / rearing / homeing strategies but that's what we humans do, we experience situations and learn from them.

whats wrong with letting(?) your bitch have a litter outside?

> It is perfectly possible that I could have allowed my bitch to have her litter outside, in the shed, with no heating and she may have reared all the pups successfully

A little exteme and of course not what I meant at all

> I am unlikely to change the way I do things next time.
>

No- maybe it will take several litters before you re-assess your whole breeding / rearing / homeing strategies but that's what we humans do, we experience situations and learn from them

Yes, it is a little extreme, but there are people who do it and therefore think those who rear pup indoors with heating are mollycoddling and it isn't needed. Just as some people have succesffuly reared a liter without watching them 24/7 in the early days and therefore think it isn't needed.

Any yesy, it may take several litters before I change the way I do things, but if th emthods I use continue to work, I may never change them. They are, after all, the methods my mentors have used succesfully for years.

I am not the only one who has said I stayed with/stay with my litters, yet you haven't questioned anyone else about it, or picked them up on it. Is that because it is more acceptable if you are more experienced?

In reply to Hayley

>whats wrong with letting(?) your bitch have a litter outside?

Nothing in itself, but not what most bitches are used to (the vast majority live indoors) and of course much less convenient for the human who will be assisting in whelping and keeping a close eye and ear in the early days.  Then there is the need to provide more than just background heating and lighting.

One of my mentors (now deceased) whelped and reared pups inkennels outside with heat lamp, popping in every half hour during whelping to see how they were doing, and yes she often had lost one or two pups if the bitch hadn't been quick enough or two came at once.  They were very strong sturdy pups and she was a watcher with regards to rearing and barely interfered at all, never weighed pups etc.

I think most of us like to have a bit more control.

>whats wrong with letting(?) your bitch have a litter outside?

It depends on the circumstances. The bitch I knew who was allowed to choose her whelping-place (underneath an upturned wheelbarrow in the yard) only managed to rear 3 from her litter of 10. Not the scenario I'd choose, but it suits the 'natural rearing' ideal.

right yes i was thinking about bitches that live outside

> whats wrong with letting(?) your bitch have a litter outside?

Just a little too 'natural' for me Hayley.
This species has been artificially selected for in evolutionary terms so are not still wild dogs. The fact that they seek out a dark, quiet place shows their inate traits still lurking in their make-up but the fact that we have artificially contrived to create a litter, then a compromise of minimal intervention  but expert care is the least we can give them.IMHO

> right yes i was thinking about bitches that live outside

I think you'll find very few bitches live outside these days, and fewer breeders live where it would be practicable (to avoid neighbour isues, theft) for them to do so. 

> I am not the only one who has said I stayed with/stay with my litters, yet you haven't questioned anyone else about it, or picked them up on it

I'm sorry but I believed we were having a  conversation, albeit in an open forum, and I was just responding to your comments.

It is so true that one lives and learns. Before posting on this forum I used to think that I was a highly respected, experienced dog breeder of many years standing. Perhaps I should stop being mentor to others and 'my breeder' to many because my methods are derived from 'the early days'.
I'm still on a learning curve and despite having had many puppies I have lost very very few and hand on heart .....never from my own neglect. I will still continue to try to the best for my bitches firstly, my puppies and the breed as a whole.

my husband wants to build kennels with a whelping room, converting our existing garage, it has elec and water, and is large....but I don't know if I'm comfortable with that, as the garage is about 20 metres from the house and not attached...

my preference is to build an extension on the house that can be used as a whelping room with direct access to the garden....am not opposed to converting the garage for some kennelling, would be handy for bathing the dogs and I could have a washing machine for sole use of dogs bedding etc...

maybe I am being over protective?? Only had 1 litter, and we took turns staying with her in the room (our study) 24/7 for the first 2 weeks, then I got a baby monitor so I could sleep on the sofa in the next room, and after that kept the monitor on but slept in our own bedroom...

she had a c-section, and I was told that with her first litter her milk dried up after a couple of weeks, so I wanted to keep an eye on her (plus it was a huge learning curve for me!)

if I have another litter I don't know if I would approach it the same way, or whether I would try and take a step back....I do know it will be hard work, and tiring, but I would imagine that each bitch is different, and some breeds need more hands-on than others.....  

where we buy our border terriers from all 13 dogs and bitches are kept outside

If I may re-iterate Dearlady, I believe that it's the time from the first 3 weeks onwards that is the busiest and just gets busier. Your proposed setup will come into it's own at that time. If you're quick on your feet and with a good baby listener, it sounds fab to me but then again it's just MHO.

On average 25% puppies won't or don't survive more so if left to let nature take over.

When people are breeding for the "perfect" show puppy Hayley they don't want to risk losing anything. That puppy you so longed for may be the one you let nature take care of.

Sometimes you posts sound very much working orienated,  like the dogs are just like cattle.   That is fine but I don't see my litters or dogs like that and have no intention of letting nature decided :-)   I breed as little as I can and try to save every puppy by watching them carefully in the hope for that "perfect" puppy.

Sometimes you posts sound very much working orienated

i dont see how you feel that?

Does your husband work or show his terriers?   I may be wrong I thought you said he worked them?   

yes my husband works one of our terriers, and one of my bitches is a good ratter, the others havent been tried as with borders you have to wait longer to start working them compared to other breeds of terriers, i show and am hopefully going to start agility soon

I was quite lucky in that I work round the corner from my house and only 3 days a week, I also had a webcam set up. My girl was due on the Tuesday or Wednesday I think, so I was already off work working at home on the Wednesday & Thursday before, and on Friday I was glued to the webcam and of course went home at lunchtime. She produced them on Monday evening, and I had booked 2 weeks off work, with an arrangement that if necessary I would do 2 hours at work after that and then pop home to check and clean, then another 2 hours at work etc. But we only had 2 puppies and she was a perfect mum, so I didn't need to take the extra time out to clean puppy pens. I did get in trouble for watching them on the webcam when the director caught me though .... :-(

sorry am i a bit thick? what use is a webcam if you are not there? what will you do? watch a pup get squashed??!

In my case I watched her when it was 5 days short of her due date and if she had shown any signs of being restless I would have rushed home (living 2 minutes away from my office), and when I went back to work they were 2 weeks old and real bruisers so if anything they were more likely to gang up on the mum and squash her!

I am due my first large breed litter on sunday, I am going to play it by ear,having bred terriers in the past i have found that they appreciate being left alone, they cuddle the pups in close and if ive been "popping in" too much they want to move them!!So i keep a very close eye on them from a distance,feed mum and clean up with as little fuss as possible ,after a week they seem to snap out of the possesive phase and to be honest these type of bitches make the best mums,obviously large breeds are a different ball game altogether and its my bitches first litter so im going to get a pile of paperbacks, matchsticks (for eyelids)and a rota system sorted out and see how we go,wish me luck

Good luck willowsmum. :)