I was reading earlier about how the credit crunch is affecting the amount of dogs ending up in rescue and was wondering about how severely this will affect the dog world.

For me, it might put a hold on getting another dog, I would struggle to double the dog walking fees to £300 per month and food and insurance etc would increase too.  I am already often walking to the park instead of driving and am having less trips to the beach as it is about 10 miles away (£2.50 round trip in petrol - what a sad geek I am!).  I haven't cut down on the amount of toys she gets and wouldn't downgrade her food either.  I think I would be more likely to make sacrafices myself rather than have to make them for the dog.

Thankfully i don't show although attending the SKC was a fairly expensive day out by the time I paid petrol, stuff I didn't need for the dog and cheesburgers to stave off the cold. lol.

How is the credit crunch affecting other CD'ers?

My husband works in finance and it hasn't affected us (touches wood) but I have heard what a big problem it is :-(

It seems that unless you are earning a huge salary life is very tough now as everything is so expensive!

My 2 year fix ends next month :( everyone has heard that people whose mortgages are ending will see a great increase in monthly payments!!! Great!!!
Will not skimp on pupsters stuff, but for us, most definately. On a good note - our car passed its m.o.t.yesterday so 1 less thing to worry about :)

It must be getting serious for it to get a mention on the news tonight.

I'm reading all the time about the state of debt in this country, the repossessions of homes, the rising cost of living, I guess it is only natural that it will come down to dogs and other animals being affected eventually or as they are being now, vet bills are horrendous, with one dog I guess most people will be able to cope but for those with more , it may well end up coming down to cost.

Dogs never get the same status as a forever family member like a child, they should, but they don't.  I guess this problem may get worse even for some on CD.

Anyone that is struggling, I hope that you find a way to keep your dog/s, I know people are struggling, I have some friends who are going through rough patches at the moment, having to downsize go back to work etc, it will all have a knock on effect.

It's not a nice place to be, it's a shame really that there is not a charity run place for those forced to go back to work to creche their dogs in, dog walkers and sitters are not exactly cheap those in difficulty can not afford them.

I bet each area could have approx 100 + dogs a day, if the owners supplied food, and the government or charities helped out it could be done.

But I guess that won't happen from the government, not exactly priority is it? The only other option is if someone wishes put themselves out to open and run such a place.

I was thinking about it in terms of dog breeding too - will it mean an increase in people breeding to make a quick buck or will people stop breeding as they can't sell the pups due to hard times? 

With regards to showing and campaigning dogs, will people stop travelling to shows as the petrol prices are prohibitive and it isn't worth getting into more debt to further a hobby?

A pretty scary time isn't it and it will have a knock on effect on everyone, sooner or later, wealthy or not.   I've read that an unprecedented number of pets have been put into rescue due to the credit crunch. :-(

It hasn't affected us... but I run the household on a strict budget anyhow, always have, little waste, no extravagancies and I hate debt.  Been finding a significant increase on the monthly shop in the last few weeks though and petrol.  I heard something on the radio a few weeks ago about some supermarkets running out of rice.  Makes me think that some are really suffering at the moment. :-(

> My 2 year fix ends next month :-( everyone has heard that people whose mortgages are ending will see a great increase in monthly payments!!! Great!!!
>

Yeah ours does to :( i have noticed food increased also, or i am eating more!! :) just had a bill for the car come in, 600 quid!!! starting to feel the pinch, but dogs are still lapping up the luxury that they are accustomed to :):)

Hayley

I'm trying to sell my house at the moment, it's only been on the market a couple of weeks and we've had one viewing.
It's very quiet.
But then I've heard other people say that the housing market is picking up again??????
I dunno, worrying times.
Am getting stocked up to grow my own veggies :-)

well I buy the dogs food above everything else, I wait longer between our food shops and try and stick to basics I guess.
I've always filled up with petrol/diesel when I've needed to, though I'm not making as many casual trips as I once did...
I'm fostering another hound next month, not sure how long for, but when you're feeding 5 dogs another one is not much difference!
I just wish hubby would think about stopping smoking, but that's up to him, costs about £150 a month.....
but we are thinking of cutting some of our dog insurance cover.....it's costing us over £1000 a year for all of them
me - I don't buy any magazines now, fewer books than I used to, havn't bought any DVD's in about 4 months, same for CD's, I don't go out, we only drink at home (plenty of wine in) so this year I haven't bought any alcohol so far.....

my only real concern is that our fixed rate runs out in October, I think we'll be ok, but we wanted to try raise some money for home improvements (quotes so far to replace all windows and french-doors around the 20K mark) so I'm a bit wary of that. We can continue as we are pretty well though, but I'd rather be able to live a little? rather than just get by, if you know what I mean   

I think those abandoning their dogs at this time are those who view them lower on their list of priorities.  they would rather give up the dog than smoking, or a holiday for example.

Dogs don't need store bought toys, or posh bedding, or fancy clothes, a basic collar and lead is all, a place to sleep that is dry and draught proof, and something softer to lie on.

So you can cut back on pretty much everything except food and the Vet, and if finances are that bad there is emergency help with the latter.

As you have said most of us can cut back on expensive grocery items, books music going out etc.  Some people just view the dog as something they can cut out :(

I agree with you, dogs don't need all the luxuries and I would much rather cut back on these if it came to it!

I don't find our dogs cost us alot of money every month, £25 insurance for them both and then I get their flea and worming stuff online and they are on Wafcol which at the moment is £2.99 per 3kg bag, the most costly thing is their chews which they have 1 per day so they are really cheap...much cheaper than the children! ;-)

I think that perhaps some people are using the credit crunch as an excuse to get rid of their animals, after all if the worst cam to the worst you could feed them cheaper dog food! (not that you would want to but sometimes needs must!)

The housing market is quite bad, we managed to get a corker of a deal on a new house becasue of the market and we are cash buyers, I know alot of people are really struggling to sell their houses which normally would be snapped up!

I think it will get worse then it will start to pick up again, if you can hold out then its not so bad.

Food shopping and utilities over here are soooo expensive and although petrol is cheaper we will definately be paying out alot less when we move back to the UK.

>I think that perhaps some people are using the credit crunch as an excuse to get rid of their animals

I think that's hit the nail on the head. Dogs don't actually need very much in the way of material things. The owner's the one who likes to buy them - the dog won't suffer at all by not having a new toy!

much cheaper than the children!

Ohhhhh yes  :) :) :)

I think the credit crunch is an excuse to get rid of pets, its easy and now its been highlighted on the news how many more people will think it's a good idea?

We are all having to make economies with petrol prices, higher cost of living, but you dont have to buy the most expensive dog food, they can live without posh collars, leads, haircuts, accessories etc. I'd rather eat beans on toast every night for tea than get rid of my dogs.

> I think that's hit the nail on the head. Dogs don't actually need very much in the way of material things. The owner's the one who likes to buy them - the dog won't suffer at all by not having a new toy!

same as children really ;-)

> I'd rather eat beans on toast every night for tea than get rid of my dogs.

Same here!!!
My OH & I are both self employed, (great when it's going well, very hard when it isn't) there doesn't need to be a credit crunch for us to hit hard times :( we occasionally hit cash flow problems and have survived on very basic food without effecting the dogs or even thinking about getting rid of them.  They're here to stay :)

I must admit I wouldn't dream of getting rid of my dogs unless obviously it really got to the stage where we were homeless & living out of the car.  My mum would rather have the dogs to live with her than the kids anyway ;-)

Regardless of what's happening with people's mortgages & loan payments, just look at the cost of fuel & food.  It's criminal.  I thank my lucky stars that my kids are good walkers as come September when they're both in primary school we'll be saving a huge amount on fuel.

I know all these posts sound so good on the part of the dogs, but honestly, if your kids were suffering who would you feed first, them or the dog? Would you really offer your hubby beans on toast every night after coming home cold tired and hungry working god knows how many hours to keep things afloat? How long do you think the mum would survive, working hard too and at home as mum and wife? If she dosent keep her strength up, the whole lot falls down. There is a big difference to being broke without kids, and broke with kids. Would someone put food in the dogs mouth above the childs...make the child walk round in tight, old shoes so the dog can eat...if everyday living has come down to the last few coppers in your purse, something has to go. Once all the good things have gone, once the budget is so tight the money ends before the week...what do you do. Make the dog starve? or put him in a home where he stands a chance. And yes, things DO get this tight for people. if you have never fallen and found yourself at the bottom of the pit you are lucky. Not all are. And I think whats going on now will harm an awful lot.

> if your kids were suffering who would you feed first, them or the dog?

The dog of course! But that's cos I hate kids and I'd have to be forced to have them in the house at all. Even if my relatives or closest friends children were starving and it came to a choice of giving money to feed their kids or my dogs, my dogs would win every time.

I know the parents on this board will be disgusted but I work very hard for every penny I earn and I've also earnt the choice to spend it how I like.

> if everyday living has come down to the last few coppers in your purse, something has to go.

Was it Brainless who was saying that it depends what you view as a priority. If it came down to it I have hundreds of things in my live which could go before my dogs or their welfare. I already have a basic life, I don't go out very often or splashing money about. Some of the things I personally could lose:

Time - I could work a few more hours without the dogs losing out. Heating, cut down on electricity use, food I enjoy, car journeys, the car, TV licence, internet access, telephone calls. I could save a lot of money if I bought the cheapest most basic supermarket items rather than the brands I prefer.

I know lots of people who claim to be penniless but go on at least two holidays a year (at peak expensive times) and put their kids in designer clothes. They honestly believe they're struggling because those things are important to them.

My dogs are my family and that is important to me.

> The dog of course! But that's cos I hate kids and I'd have to be forced to have them in the house at all. Even if my relatives or closest friends children were starving and it came to a choice of giving money to feed their kids or my dogs, my dogs would win every time

Wow what a statement!!!!!!!!

Of course for me (being a parent ;-) ) if i had to choose my childrens welfare or my dogs my children would always come first but I haven't been in that position and I hope that I never am. I do feel very very sad for people who genuinely are so hard up that they have to face this decision but I do believe that a large percentage of those who say that is the reason are not telling the truth and unfortunately they make it harder for people to feel sorry for those that are :-(

I don't feel anyone in this country would ever be at the point of starvation to not afford the few crusts the family dog needs.  We do have a welfare state and most people who fall on hard times have some recourse to help.

The acknowledged poor in this country still have enough for those luxuries like a smoke and a drink, so there really is no excuse other than homelessness to get rid of the family dog.

There is nothing wrong with beans on toast, Scrambled eggs are as nutritious as steak, bargain bread at the end of the day etc etc.

> I think I would be more likely to make sacrafices myself rather than have to make them for the dog.

Same here cheekychow.  Soli has just cost me around £100 - £65 insurance excess and the rest in bits and pieces (duvets etc) to keep her comfy as she's just lost a toe.  Undoubtedly she'll cost me more as well - so I'm sure I will miss out on things to give her the care she needs.

In reply to Calmstorm I don't believe anybody in this day and age is as poor as that. Even people on benefits seem to have the latest gadgets.

I can't believe anyone would get rid of dogs because they're poor. They could buy supermarkets own brands if they were that hard up.  

> They could buy supermarkets own brands if they were that hard up.

They could even go and get the various free samples that places like pets at home offer

> They could buy supermarkets own brands if they were that hard up.

I do already, have to cut corners where I can, to afford the girls, ;)  Lidl's pound block of cheddar £2.24, cereal fruit and Fibre etc 99p.  Low fat yogurt 29p for 4, 400g of square sandwhich ham £1.19 etc etc 

The dog of course! But that's cos I hate kids and I'd have to be forced to have them in the house at all. Even if my relatives or closest friends children were starving and it came to a choice of giving money to feed their kids or my dogs, my dogs would win every time.

I know the parents on this board will be disgusted but I work very hard for every penny I earn and I've also earnt the choice to spend it how I like.

Well, I am a parent of three children and I am not disgusted.

My dogs are genuinely equal to my children as far as I am concerned, rightly or wrongly. if thinsg got a bit tight finacially, I wouldn't be deciding which of my three children I'd be feeding first, or which one I'd chose to go so I could feed the others, so why would I chose my dogs to go?

And yes, I would happily feed my husband beans on toast every night for however long it took if that was the diffewrence between being able to afford my dogs and not. I woudl also probably do that before giving my dogs cheaper food, so I'd just have to keep him happy in other wasy... LOL

I think the nail has been hit ont he head by those who have said the dog can't have been that important in the first place.

I do spend a fortune on food because I buy everything fresh daily but if it meant losing my dogs I would shop at Netto

No way would I lose my dogs, I'd be down and out, eating scraps and living on a park bench first.  The dogs will have the lifestyle they are accustomed too; that's my priority and paying the mortgage and bills.   We are quite fortunate in that we have invested over the years and own other assets.  But there are loads of things we could cut down on household wise.

>Would you really offer your hubby beans on toast every night after coming home cold tired and hungry working god knows how many hours to keep things afloat?

Yes, yes and yes.  :-D I love beans on toast; it's one of my favourite meals, Tesco's value too.  OH quite often has cheese on toast for tea.  :-D He was brought up in a family of 8, money was tight back then and there wasn't a lot for food but we do eat a very bland diet anyhow. I just see food as something we have to eat to avoid hunger.  Don't really care what it is, boiled rice is as appealing to me as a steak; if I'm hungry, I eat, if not I don't. 

I don't think that calmstorm meant the people who have lots of benefits coming in I think she genuinely meant people who have no money and are past the stage of just eating beans on toast. I love my dogs deeply and they have whatever they want and they will be with us till the very end but I am honest and they will always come 2nd to my children who I love more than anything!

Everyone on champdogs is devoted to their dogs (it would be a strange forum to join if you weren't ;-) ) and I think the thread was started just to see what people thought of the current credit crunch and how it is affecting dogs rather than who loves their dogs the most ;-)

But no-one in the UK in this day and age woudl be reduced to real poverty

It is what people view as a priority in their lives and that depends on the individual. 

The amount of food we waste and throw out in Western culture is astronomical IMO.

I don't see anything wrong with beans on toast, value bread, rice, pasta etc, etc.  There are lots of things that can be done with basic foods to make them more interesting and varied.  It could be said that it would help if a lot of us in the Western world learned to eat to live rather than living to eat.

I am not convinced there are many that are living on the breadline so badly that they can't economise but rather put their animals in rescue.  Well, according to the shopping trolleys I continually see and still see at the supermarkets.  We are far from starvation and pets don't need material items, same as we don't need fancy and expensive foods.

There has been too much extravagance, too much credit and too much reliance on it to fund lifestyles beyond means IMO. 

My dogs are my family; no way would I lose them and that's not because I love them the most or anything else, it's because I have certain values, principles in my life and I live by my conscience.

> The amount of food we waste and throw out in Western culture is astronomical IMO.
>

I agree 100%

> I don't see anything wrong with beans on toast, value bread, rice, pasta etc, etc.  There are lots of things that can be done with basic foods to make them more interesting and varied.  It could be said that it would help if a lot of us in the Western world learned to eat to live rather than living to eat.

>

We are already there ;-)

> My dogs are my family; no way would I lose them and that's not because I love them the most or anything else, it's because I have certain values, principles in my life and I live by my conscience. <

I completely agree with you, our dogs are part of our family and they are not and would not go anywhere but I have in rescue seen some genuine people who have surrendered their animals and really couldn't afford to keep them (mostly through vet bills etc)

I know that most people are just bored/want the next new thing and thats why they surrender their animals but I don't want to tar everyone with the same brush....nobody knows what fate is round the corner and I think it is wrong to judge anyone unless you have first walked in their shoes :-)

I love my dogs - but certainly not as much as my children! In fact I would say humans come before dogs everytime. It can be very difficult to make money go far enough and perhaps occasionally if someone is struggling to keep a pet properly it is kinder to give it to someone who can afford to give it what it needs.  Perhaps people may have to do extra hours to pay the bills so no one can spend enough time with the dog anymore? I cetainly notice bills are going up at present so lots of people may be struggling, and pets can  be costly to keep on a tight budget.

> The acknowledged poor in this country still have enough for those luxuries like a smoke and a drink, so there really is no excuse other than homelessness to get rid of the family dog.

must say there are a couple of homeless guys around here many with dogs. one has an akita, one has a large cross- both very well kept looking given the circs (the akita could maybe go a bath, but hes a white dog so the muck shows up)

the owners are not nearly as well kept looking as the dogs, just goes to show some owners really will give to their dogs before themself

> must say there are a couple of homeless guys around here many with dogs. one has an akita, one has a large cross- both very well kept looking given the circs (the akita could maybe go a bath, but hes a white dog so the muck shows up)
>

And aren't the dogs well behaved and mellow?  It is all that socialisation I suppose.

>I know that most people are just bored/want the next new thing and thats why they surrender their animals but I don't want to tar everyone with the same brush....nobody knows what fate is round the corner and I think it is wrong to judge anyone unless you have first walked in their shoes :-)

There are always exceptions to any rule and there are always are those genuine people who may not qualify for PSDA aid and the like, ill or perhaps no longer capable of looking after a pet or having lost their job etc, etc and they do have my deepest empathy. 

However, this is the modern UK today and what a lot of people deem as essentials today are what people years ago saw as a luxury and could do without. 

I grew up in an Irish Family in the early 70's; money was far from plentiful although we had assets, cattle, farms and land etc, etc.  We lived on the breadline and many times as a child, my own diet consisted of salad cream and crusts of bread.  The dogs had scraps, spoilt food and water if there was no milk.  The TV was only turned on now and again to save electricity and there was no central heating.  Oh and we had tin roofs; on the outbuildings mind. :-D I do know what it is like to live on the breadline, it's not nice but it's nothing compared to loosing family, not for me anyhow. 

HI

I'm definitely noticing the credit crunch - my food and petrol bills seem to be going through the roof and the price of petrol definitely affects where we go.  It wont affect my dogs - we're fortunate enough to have two wages coming in so are still okay.  i do think the dogs in rescue will be affected - rescues are having to put up their adoption prices at a time when people are less able to afford those fees.

I have in the past lived on benefits - and I can honestly say I would have struggled to own a dog at that time - even buying a cup of tea in the market place was too big a luxury. 

Maxine

lol they are actually, the akita is quite aloof (as to be expected!) but yes, very well socialised.

I only know how I feel and what I would do based on my family and that is that my dogs are my family and they are staying put credit crunch or not ;-) 

I still wouldn't judge anyone else ;-)

>I still wouldn't judge anyone else ;-)

Ok, help me out here; you've got me intrigued, I'm obviously missing something. :-D 

Who's judging who? 

> Ok, help me out here; you've got me intrigued, I'm obviously missing something. :-D&nbsp;
>
> Who's judging who?&nbsp;

Sorry Spender I didn't mean anyone was judging anyone else, badly worded sentance (was very tired ;-) ) didn't mean to offend anyone

But no-one in the UK in this day and age woudl be reduced to real poverty

I would have agreed with you, until the last couple of years, it is hard to imagine isn't it?

With the benefits system, housing etc, I have a single mother friend who works a few hours, gets benefits and all sorts of help, obviously is only just comfortable and I have always helped her out with bits and pieces, but no I can see that she would never be so bad off she could not afford to keep her dog. Same with those for whatever reasons don't work at all and live in a council or houseing association house, the benefits system helps those in need, and 'some' that are not, and I see no danger of a dog being lost for financial reasons here.

On the other side of the coin I have another friend, the duel working family with mortgage.  Everything is going up and up, then her husbands job is lost and he gets another which does not pay quite the same though still above the minimum wage.

Everything will still cost the same, but suddenly there is not enough money to go around, mortgage etc was original bought via the previous wage, thesearepeople that are suddenly on the breadline, and they can get no help from the government at all, as they earn above the minimum wage, and own their own home, they can just about still afford their mortage, council tax, but the other bills, and food, petrol are seriously cut into, with notenough money to go around.

I seriously have a friend like this, who is struggling with no-one to help them, I've even started to buy her a weeks shopping as she was secretly crying as they did not have enough money to even buy tea, coffee fruit by the last week before pay day,  it was only through her child that I even found out. :-(

On the flipside I also have a friend whose husband has cancer, she works and they get a little help, but nothing to pay the bills and mortgage they have, again they have needed to rely on family and close friends to help with things.

These are the people who are being affected the ones who work and try to continue to work and have a mortgage, repossessions are up and it is going to keep happening, I fully understand why people like this would perhaps think of letting the dog go, when they do not have enough money to feed themselves even, as bad luck has fallen drastically upon them. :-(

It is happening all the time, and many can't get out of it, even when repossessed there are not enough council houses being built to accomodate and many are ending up with family and friends as they can not afford to rent either, where can the dog go? :-(

I don't have children, and won't have them. My dogs are not substitute children either. They don't get treats, rarely buy toys etc....

Recently I have taken to checking my cupboards/fridge/freezer before I go shopping so I can work a meal round what we already have, and just buying the extra we need, before I used to just go shopping and try and think of 3 meals in my head and then just fill the trolley with anything else that took my fancy - sounds really extravagant when I think about it now!!

I also work our meals round the dogs to some extent...if we have something that they can have off-cuts etc

we have 2 good wages coming in, and I too work hard for every penny I earn. We often eat beans on toast or cheese on toast - simple food, nowt wrong with that, had sausage and mash the other day, and sometimes an omelette, but the price of eggs has really gone up!

My hubby is an engineer in the food industry, he said a while ago that food prices were going to go up, the price of butter has trippled to the manufacturer, and apparently China have been buying a lot of it....it all has a knock on effect

I guess I should be thinking more of growing our own veg, etc etc....

oh, and the last few coppers....counted them up the other day..have £7 to take to the bank :)

> seriously have a friend like this, who is struggling with no-one to help them, I've even started to buy her a weeks shopping as she was secretly crying as they did not have enough money to even buy tea, coffee fruit by the last week before pay day,&nbsp; it was only through her child that I even found out. :-(

I suggest your Friend contacts the various agencies.  They at least should be able to get help with council tax rebates or Tax credits. 

The only way anyone with a mortgage can get help is with the interest payments if they a re entitled to Income support or equivalent, but in that case the claimant must work less than 16 hours a week and wife less than 24. 

If things are so desperate that it means loosing their home then it might be worth them cutting their house to qualify for help, though they wouldn't pay the mortgage interest for several months, as mortgage protection would be deemed to cover.

This is where I feel owner occupiers are unfairly penalised in the benefits top up system.  If you rent your Rent can be subject to housing benefit, so is taken into account in assessing needs, but if your an owner occupier they act as if there are no housing costs.

Many people with older mortgages pay less than current commercial rents, so it makes no sense to have people loose their home and then have to go into the private rental sector where if they don't earn enough they can get housing benefit.

A trip to a benefits adviser and CAB are called for here I think.  Many peopel that are truly strugglign simply are don't know what help there is available, so don't claim.

I can honestly say I hate whoever coined the tern "credit crunch", I never thought such a term would become a common conversation starter!

I work in the mortgage industry & whilst I work for a reasonably safe firm, it is a very worrying time made even worse by the likes of the BBC & the bloody Daily Mail constantly scaremongering!  We can't expect to have it good all the time, even though Gordon Brown would probably disgaree we are still in a boom/bust cycle, it's what makes the economy go round!  Fortuanately things are a lot different now than the early 90's plus we have a good (IMO) PM at the moment who I'm sure is going to bring us through all this doom & gloom smiling! Here's hoping anyway (hope is all I have at the moment!)

They at least should be able to get help with council tax rebates or Tax credits. 


This is the terrible problem that they have, they can not get a council tax rebate or even tax credits as even when their mortgage company took them to court for repossession, the judge looked at their earnings and said they had enough to pay their mortgage and council tax, everything else they were not interested in, food other bills and living costs do not come into it. This is the way they work today. :-(

I just want to highlight this point for anyone else who may have a high mortgage and good standard of living, if the job is lost and finances are half what they were, my friend fell into the trap of re-mortgaging thinking a high paid job would come again, used up equity, got the consolidation loans, continuting to stay where they were hoping for a change of fortune again.

What they should have done in hindsight was immediately sell and downsize to counter the job change.  Instead they stayed, got worse and worse off, used up savings, credit cards all to get by until crash, no equity, no savings to use to sell their home with, family and friends helped until they ran out of finances themselves, just falling further and further behind with everything. Everything has to be paid back.

To be honest, I've suggested that they may need to go bankcrupt, I don't know what else to suggest when you have more going out than coming in, and loads of debt piling up aswell what else can you do?  I was worried my friend was going to do something silly, she was and is so depressed. There is no help for them, they have been to everything going for help, but nothing until they are homeless, they are even on a council list but not priority until homeless, with children and 2 dogs where would they go, I guess to my annex, but that is not the point and the problem is once in there they will probably be deemed as housed and not urgent.

It is a terrible state for many going through it, I have learnt unfortnately a lot from them, I would say to anyone, act sooner rather than later to avoid running up even more debt.

> It is a terrible state for many going through it, I have learnt unfortunately a lot from them, I would say to anyone, act sooner rather than later to avoid running up even more debt.

I think this is the problem with the UK that debt has been encouraged.  We have the highest personal debt in Europe (that is after taking away mortgages).

My only debt is my mortgage and the overdraft facility I have with the bank, if things get a bit tight, I have to struggle to make sure it stays that way and any incursion into the red is cleared asap.

My daughter who is 20 has already got into the credit trap, despite warnings and is taking ages to get out of it and she has no essential outgoings other than her very modest housekeeping to me.  Credit has been literally thrown at people, have this have that and have it now.

>Fortuanately things are a lot different now than the early 90's plus we have a good (IMO) PM at the moment who I'm sure is going to bring us through all this doom & gloom smiling!

Can I have some of whatever you're on? ;-)

  Can I have some of whatever you're on?

:-D Me too!!!  Unfortunatley, I have had my eyes opened wide to how things are falling apart, the 90's did not have all this debt we have today, it has spiralled out of control.

I know we have had this topic before re: saving for things and buying, not using credit.  It's the way I was brought up, my mother to date has never had credit, apart from her mortgage which is well and truly paid for now. My mother put her efforts into education, and making sure we had good jobs to earn good money, which we have all done, I could look at the world from my own goldfish bowl and say it is good, what debt, what problems? Thankfully having a large circle of friends I see it absolutely is not a good world we live in. If one thing goes wrong, your life can easily spiral out of control, and I believe today most have to sit and study where every penny is going.

It is not just about the food for dogs, which can be done on a low budget and cost little, it's vet bills, (even with insurance) there is still excess, boosters other problems that are not covered, kennel fee's, grooming, dog beds, toys, and if you show and fall on bad times, well, you've had it really, (travel costs etc.) the list can go on.......... without children it may well be easier to have beans on toast every night to cater for a dog/s but no-one would make their children suffer for that reason and as I've found sometimes it is down to that last £1 - horrendously in this day and age. :-(

I could say a dog is for life, and how terrible that someone would get rid of their dog/s but I'm at present in a position to perhaps think that, I know many others just aren't, poverty is not a thing of the past.

It is harder out there my eldest son has moved this year into a flat with his girlfriend and they are feelingthe pinch a lot. I know buy tem some luxury bits like stilton cheese (he's mad for it) olives etc. I (well OH +l) have just got them a week in Cornwall for a holiday or they would not get one.
I think you can manage if you shop very carefully, H, can shop and spend half of what I do as she was a student for 3 years.
My Dad goes to Lidels and the market (hes loaded but tight). Luckily enough I and my husband have good jobs. My food bill has halved since my son's left home!
My dogs are our family now and the vet bills, food etc are still cheaper than kids.
Credit is the great problem, a cousin has her house on the market its due to be siezed and she is £25K in debt!!!
Due to my upbringing (I think) I have never had credit, I do not own a credit card and if I do not have the money I don't buy. My son also has no credit card and a pay as you go phone.
What would go first kids or dogs, neither i would go short as I could not bear to part with either.
But I would not have additional dogs, I would dump my car, and I would make do and mend more. I do not smoke, don't have a drink often, my vices are shoes, shoes and shoes.
I do not envy those people on benefit. I was a single parent with two kids under 3 and it was hard, luckily I have a wounderful family, i just never got the fact that I could get what i wanted with no money in the bank, there is always a reckoning.