This may sound a really daft question but, do you stop potnetial new owners from picking up puppies when they come to visit them ?? I have had my second puppy dropped this morning and just can't believe it !! I never allow children to pick them up but, you would expect an adult to be able to without them being dropped after all the are very small puppies and not remotely difficult. I just felt my heart stop as the poor little chap fell to the floor and he was really crying, bless him :-( I ran and picked him up for a cuddle until he had calmed down a little and got over the shock but, what can you do ?? It was an accident, the chap was lovely and obviously didn't mean to so, I just didn't know what to say, there was a terrible silence instead whilst I made sure he was ok. He seems fine now ( although I will take him to the vets this evening just to be on the safe side ) I am thinking I won't ever let anyone pick puppies up again, I feel mean about it but, I can't risk another being hurt.

Debbie 

I'm glad to say that it's never happened to me.  Poor little pups, and what a horrible shock for you :(

Perhaps you could get people to sit down before they cuddle the pups - that might put your mind at rest until you get over the shock?

Can you insist they sit down and you will pass the pups of the sex they have asked for to them and return them when they have finished inspection the pup. Think anyone who is an out and out dog person would not drop a puppy but those unused may not expect them to wriggle. Or perhaps surround the pen area with new fleece (vet bed) in the hope that if they do fall they will bounce.

My initial thoughts were the same as r/lover - make sure people sit down with them - eliminates the chance for them to be dropped.  Just explain that people have dropped them - am sure they will understand - its like with a baby really!  And puppies are far more wriggly than babies!

Poor wee pup - hope he is ok.

i make people sit down then hand the pup over. one of mine was stepped on once and the guy just stood not knowing where the yelping was coming from untill i pushed him off it!

Each time I have had a puppy I have never even asked to hold the puppy although I was desperate to.  And with my present boy who is just turned 2, the breeder actually carried him out to the car with us, and placed him on my knee the day we brought him home.  After seeing him 3 times previously, I was only allowed to stroke the litter and not pick any up, I think you should be quietly assertive with your prospective puppy owners and let them know that they can look, stroke but not lift end of story, you have to protect your litter.  You must have felt dreadful when this happened!!

I only held puppies when they were offered and I knelt down on the floor, actually I was already on the floor.  Perhaps I was just polite but the pups were not mine so didn't presume that I could just pick one up.

this has happen twice to me once with teyha at 6 weeks old a old lady was holding her she dropped her from a high on to the run ground,on her side.she cryed but this could have been the result of her heart problem beacuse on other puppy in the litter  have a problem

then my sil son drop a swd at 7 weeks on his front leg he was lame for a day,

so now no one picks up a puppy they can sit down on the floor for cuddles.

Debbie....'door and close it firmly behind you as you leave' comes to mind to what I'd feel like telling him! regardless of how embarased he was....I bet he didn't book that puppy either...even if you had alloed him. grrr I would be mad.

> do you stop potnetial new owners from picking up puppies when they come to visit them ??

Strangers picking up puppies? Never ever again.
A long time ago I had a chap come from France to see a litter and he was looking at them in the kennel run ( concrete) and as the puppy he was holding wriggled he just opened his hands to let it jump down... just like a cat!! It fell to the ground and broke its jaw. I went ballistic and told the guy to get out.The puppy had his jaw repaired and was none the worse but I tell every one who comes to view puppies now that story and to sit on the ground if outside or chair if in.
Only strongly trusted friends are allowed to stand up but never children.

>as the puppy he was holding wriggled he just opened his hands to let it jump down... just like a cat!!

I had a prospective buyer do the same - he was sitting on a chair and just tipped the 6-week puppy off his lap, expecting it to land like a cat. Luckily the pup wasn't badly hurt, just winded, but I was furious! Needless to say he didn't get a puppy from me.

agree totaly to what you wrote if anyone been though this of a puppy beening dropped and hurting it self.
your heart gos into your mouth,thinking all the care and hard work you done to raise this litter then some one gos and dose that.

I just didn't know what to do !! The first time was a while ago and it was a very lovely family who had been a few times to see their little boy with no problems but, when they actually came to collect him the eldest son was holding him (18 year old) and then for some very strange reason as soon as the pup wiggled he let go so, just like your one tooolz :-(   He was a bit dazed, bless him but, didn't cry (unlike the young man who's eyes had filled) so he must have landed better then poor little Henry today who really did go with a bang :-(  My instant reaction was just to grab him and give him a cuddle to calm him down, he was really crying and believe me I was really close to shouting but, it wouldn't have helped the situation and it was an accident.
They are a really lovely couple and I'm sure they will be very much more careful in the future but, I just don't understand how an adult who has owned dogs before would possibly just let go of a tiny pup if he wiggles, how bizarre !!  
I certainly won't be letting anyone pick up a puppy here again and would advise them not too at home either. I have never dropped a puppy and would never even pick up someone elses without asking. It makes you wonder what they would do holding a newborn baby !!!!
Anyway, little Henry seems fine thank god !! I will get him checked tonight just incase though and no they didn't choose him.

Luckily puppy dogs like babies are tougher than they look.

Hi, and YES my answer to whether I would stop protential puppy owners picking up my puppies!
I advise them to sit down ever on the floor or back on the sofa and I hand them the puppy and explain to them about the fact that if puppy was dropped then this could seriously damage him!

sadly I had a friend years ago who had one of her pups 'dropped and he ended up almost a cripple (to look at) he had damaged hips and looked so sad. she kept him of course but that made me decide when I had my one and only litter to treat all people the same as I would children, sit on the floor, me at their sid to show them how to support the pups legs.  I went a step further and asked all people to bring a change of clothes if they wanted to handle the pups. there was no way I was having my one and only litter , rearing them in the best way to have folk bring in some bug from whereever. smost people who got a pup did appreciate that it was their pup that I was protecting. people had to 'pass the telephone interview' before I would concider them for a pup, THEN they got to come and meet me for the 2nd interview.  One chap, 'who flew fighter jets in the gulf' said if I didnt want him to have a pup he would understand.! I said it wasnt that I didnt want him to have one but I wanted them to know what htey were taking on. FOR A LIFETIME. happ that the pups did go to great homes and still keep in touch. PHEW!  I remember years ago when a lady (top breeder of my breed at that time) in my breed had a litter and asked me if I would like to have the pick of the boys in her litter. I felt like I had won the lottery. she gifted him to me and I treasured that gift.  

>I will get him checked tonight just incase though and no they didn't choose him

Like you I'm totally amazed that anyone would pick up a pup without asking and then to drop it???????   

Sorry but if (and its a BIG if) I were to allow someone to have one of mine in this case the one that they dropped would be the one that they got, after all in a shop "if you drop it or break it - it's yours" is the sign on the wall

Maybe you need a sign??

Hope your pups recover OK. I made potential owners sit on the floor to handle pups! If they pulled their faces then I knew they were not right for my pups.
Angela

I have never picked up a puppy when I have been to view a litter either.  I have always sat straight on the floor and waited until the pups came to me and just smoothed them.  I wouldn't pick them up.  I wouldn't want my pups to be picked up by prospective owners either, but again I wouldn't know how to ask them not to without appearing rude and fear of putting them off.

when my dog was a young pup (a few months old), my friends dad dropped her onto concrete from a standing position.  My friend had worked in vets over the years and is a nurse now and the look of horror on her face had me thinking the worst.  When she was dropped she didn't make a sound and my friend thought she had broken her back - OMG it was awful.  Thankfully she was fine but hates getting picked up - it usually means a trip to the vets so not sure if she is scarred from that experience or just not keen on the vets!

When I had my liter, as a couple of other people said, if anyone wants to stroke, hold a puppy they have to be on the floor, kneeling or sitting.  It's also a really good way of seeing their reactions especially if there is a few puppies running around chewing cuffs, laces, hair and anything else they can grab onto! :-)

I have a 9 week old pup and last week someone asked if they could hold her, they were sitting down on a chair so my OH placed the pup on the persons lap and they let her walk straight off and fall to the floor on her head! Now if someone asks to hold her the answer is NO. Thankfully she was alright but there was a pretty loud bang and she really cried :-(  I think if I had pups that were being veiwed I would make everyone sit on the floor with the pups to be on the safe side.

i always ask potential puppy owners to sit in the floor when they first come to visit the puppies .... its a much better way of seeing how they interact with the puppies as well as elimatating any possible accidents.

When my yorkie was a pup  my daughters friend came to visit and had her on her lap. She allowed my pup to jump off her lap onto the floor despite her being very tiny. My pup broke her leg and had to have an operation and lots of cage rest. I have always felt that she missed out on some of her "puppyhood" I still feel very angry towards my daughters friend. I don't breed but if I ever viewed a litter of pups I would totally respect any request not to pick them up.
jane

oh my goodness anyone viweing my pups will have to lay flat on the floor lol no way will they hold them they will also be washing their hands and putting some antibac on before they so much as breath the same air after reading this. And i know it isnt funny but i really had to giggle at the OP "if you drop it or break it its yours"

When OH and I went to buy our boy, I knelt on the floor without being asked to , to stroke him. I was too afraid to pick him up, he was so tiny! I let OH carry him to the car, silly really as he is so clumsy :) but there were no mishaps thankfully. Once he was paid for and was really ours, I felt so much more relaxed.
This was back in Jan and I still carry the heffalump up and down stairs and am proud to say that even with his great weight and my dodgy knees, I haven't dropped him yet! :)

I just can't believe that people are soooo stupid, I would be like you killickchick, terrified that i hurt them! Even if you know nothing about dogs surely anyone with an iota of common sense would know how to treat a baby of any species! I do have trouble with our new baby rats cause they really are wriggly and seem to shrink in your hands in order to get free but even then I kneel down to make sure that if they do fall they are at a minimal distance. Even a wriggly puppy is solid enough to keep a hold of and if you are concerned then you would naturally drop yourself closer to the floor to avoid injury to the animal. If I had a litter then I too would expect folk to either sit on a chair or the floor, but to be honest before reading this it really would not have occurred to me

Hope puppy is ok and has no lasting effects from his fright!

do you stop potnetial new owners from picking up puppies when they come to visit them ?? I have had my second puppy dropped this morning and just can't believe it !! 

Have you got seating arrangements sorted in the place where potential owners are viewing pups?  The first thing I do when people arrive is ask them to sit and offer them a drink and a biscuit, they are usually not likely to get up once asked to sit and you have sent the message that this is your home and they are a guest before they have even got to the pups.  And I happily then pick the pups up to be placed on their knees, always asking them to support the bottom as well, I also before a visit, place bean bags on the decking outside or the conservatory floor, so if anyone does want to get down to puppies level I tell them to get comfy on the bean bag,  the pups love the bean bags and the client does not need to move around to see the pups as they are swamped, and beanbags being soft and bouncy they don't get hurt if they fall off the clients lap.

If anyone did look as though they were going to pick up a pup whilst standing I would stop them immediately and ask them to sit down.

Poor you and poor pup hope that he is ok. :-(

Sorry to go off on a tangent but once a large lady wearing a flowery summer dress came to see puppies and I asked her to sit on the floor.
I let out the litter and they all just jumped on her. Minutes later several took a bit of dress hem in their mouths and,as if choreographed, they all ran backwards taking her dress right over her head.
Luckily she was a good sport but did we laugh.

Sorry to go off on a tangent but once a large lady wearing a flowery summer dress came to see puppies and I asked her to sit on the floor.
I let out the litter and they all just jumped on her. Minutes later several took a bit of dress hem in their mouths and,as if choreographed, they all ran backwards taking her dress right over her head.
Luckily she was a good sport but did we laugh.

I bet you laugh and laugh and laughed Tooolz :-D :-D

> I bet you laugh and laugh and laughed

Gosh Blue we did especially because it was only her boobs which stopped the little monkies completely undressing her.

Oh man I cannot stop laughing reading this and everytime I think about it again I laugh some more! So comical and couldnt have been choreographed absolute classic lol

Hi
I've had a dreadful experience, a family came to
See their puppy last sat, the woman picked up the
Other bitch (not hers) I'm feeling so angry with myself
For letting her now (hind site) anyway, she dropped the
Bitch, landed on her head (side of it) was horrific,
Anyway, puppy yelped but then got up. Shook her self off
And headed back to their living quarters. Things
Deteriorated, took her to the Emergancy vets sun,
Checked her said she seemed ok soft tissue damage
To her neck, possibly swelling on the brain (obviously she's guessing)
Puppy LOT less active, not confident as she was, holding her head at a
Strange angle and seems (correct myself) can't see either at all but
Massively impaired, bumping into things, listening for my voice rather
Than looking ect. Vet told me to separate her from the
Litter for 24hrs gave pain killer shot n sent me home
With big bill. Tues, still not right but bit brighter, took her back to vet and asked
For her eyes to be checked again. Vet said "eyes are responding she can see"
Went home very relieved, thurs, still bumping into things and shows distress if
She 'loses her litter mates or me' not got the confidence
To explore like the others (still gut feeling she can't see) off
I took her to another vets. Told them the story. Unfortunately
I admit prompted by me, if her eyes are responding, yet she can't see
Properly / clearly ect....,indicates damage to the brain
I am devastate. I've cried and cried over this puppy (Lexi) named
By her owners. She knows her name and I've a huge attachment
To her, been nursing her and she's spent tons of time on my knee.
I don't care about the 'lost money' she was sold! I don't care
About my big vets bills, I care that it's more than likely I'll have to have her
Put to sleep. I'm going to give her another week, hoping with all my heart
For a miraculous recovery. If not.,,,putting her to sleep will be the
Kindest thing I can do for her. I cry as I write this, Lexi on knee.
From this awful experience I will never allow
Anyone to pick up again. That's if I ever have another litter.
It's been the worst experience for me. Heartbreaking.
Sorry for mailing you

I can't believe how many times this apparently has happened!!!    Thankfully it's never happened with any of mine but I did have one woman, so-called 'experienced' who came in to see my litter (only two puppies) and before I could draw breath had leant over the box and picked one up by her scruff.   These weren't baby puppies either - probably around at least 8 weeks so heavy puppies.   I went nuts.   The woman left.

Whether or not you let people pick your puppies up would depend on the people, but for me, risk of dropping apart, I'd never let anybody pick up my puppies without asking because of the risk of infection.   Unless they'd washed their hands first.   So often people come from one kennel to the next, and if there's anything doing the rounds, it will be brought to your litter.    For sure, I'd expect them to be sitting on the floor - I remember one couple who'd lost a bitch before and I only had males.   I let them cuddle one of the boys and it was instant love.    They bought him.   But they knew exactly how to handle baby Bassets.

It's sadly all to easy for a puppy to struggle and slip out of hands onto the floor.   Puppies are tough of course, but there's a limit.   Actually I went to see a litter and THE BREEDER picked one up and dropped it.    The puppy was never right, and had to be put down.

Like others, I make people sit on the floor and have done that myself too. It is awfully easy for a tiny wriggler to get away! I remember visiting a friend with puppies once and one of them just THREW herself out of my hands when she had been fast asleep a minute before, it was so embarrassing, luckily the puppy was ok. Another puppy on that same visit managed to get under the breeders feet in spite of her best care shuffling around and we thought she'd broken the leg for a few minutes, again we were lucky and she was ok. But sitting on the floor is definitely best!

Slightly off tangent but when I took one of our Labs for his second injections I drove away and somehow the rear door opened. I saw people waving at me and glanced behind but the two older dogs were still in the back and had blocked my view. Then I noticed the door flapping about and stopped in time to see an old work mate carrying the pup up towards me. I rushed him straight into the Vets again where he proceeded to pee on the floor and on getting the once over was deemed fine. He had bounced off the road but Vet said he was still supple enough to have absorbed the fall. He was 14 last week.

I'm just feeling awful because I've just put a family off having one of our working cockers .    I hope in the best possible way, if that IS possible,    They had two children, about 7 year old and 5 year old.

This was their second visit - they seemed fine at the first visit, but at the second, the younger was very very hyped up, and insisted on holding the pup dangling under its tummy when he had been told the correct way.      At one stage the whole family except Dad were sitting on one chair with the feet in the air in case the pups chewed their feet.   The pup that was available to them was obviously very wary and dashing back to her bed.   I think an accident waiting to happen.     The parents had ticked all the boxes beforehand.

Now they had paid a fairly modest deposit into my bank account - I wouldn't let anyone do that again.   

Am I wrong going by my gut instinct - how do I stand re deposit?

Jo

I completely understand your reasons for refusing them one of your puppies, but as it's you that has changed your mind about letting them have a puppy, then I believe that the deposit should be refunded in full, as far as I know it can only be non refundable if the purchaser pulls out of the sale.

I would refund the deposit to make it clear they have no claim on a puppy any more.

how do I stand re deposit?

Grey area I believe -have tried to find out myself and even via solicitors it wasn't much use and I could not get a definitive answer. You will have to hope they will be satisfied with having the deposit returned, but if they insist the deposit is a contract and you have agreed to sell and they still demand to buy the puppy, then I'd be on the phone to Trevor Cooper to get legal advice.

I wouldn't hesitate to refund in full, but really need them to completely understand that now I've really watched their son (nothing wrong with the child, he's a normal , but very hyper kid), they have to understand that a working cocker really isn't a sensible breed that they will have the most fun with.    

They really are better off with a more laid back breed.   Whether they'll understand that or not, I don't know.   Watch this space.

Jo

The law as I am aware as happened to a friend, wouldn't let pup go, had deposit and returned, owners sued and got cost of pup plus damages awarded to them. I put on a deposit slip (drawn up by my solicitor)
£XXX deposit on XXXXX pup, this deposit is non refundable unless I am unable to supply you with a puppy for whatever reason'

Going on to the dropping of pups another friend had one trodden on badly, it was blind and she kept it for the rest of his relatively short life (3 years) as he developed idiopathic epilepsy, very possibly caused by being stepped on.#

Yep I have the similar on my receipts

Have Received the Sum of   £....................... 
From:  ..................................................

As *Non-Refundable Deposit/Outstanding Balance/ Payment
IN RESPECT OF A XXXXXXX PUPPY DOG/BITCH

Date of Birth:  ........................................

PRICE:       BALANCE:

£.........................    £.........................

Signed:  ...........................     DATE:  ...............

*Unless I am unable to supply a puppy for some unforeseen reason

Joflatcoat - I'd give them a full refund of their deposit.   It's a grey area indeed, but rather than have an ongoing battle with these people (and frankly I'd have done the same thing re their child!!) give them their money back - end of it.   After all you backed out of the deal?!!   Again quite understandably.

I never took deposits, but fact is with one puppy who was going to a fellow breeder, I had second thoughts as time passed.   She'd seen them at around 6 weeks, to pick which of the two really nice males she preferred (thankfully the other breeder wanted the other puppy or they would have been fighting on the front lawn!!).   But as time went on, her demands became more frequent to the point all I could see was this going on for however long the puppy lived.   And heaven help him/me if he'd not turned out to be the huge winner she wanted!!    Things got very nasty (even with no deposit monies being involved) but I stuck to my guns.   I kept the boy and one of his sisters. 

I would suggest that refunding the deposit in full would be an end to the contract.   Until the puppy has been FULLY paid for, it still belongs to you.   But it would help to have a well-worded deposit receipt so there are no misunderstandings.

Thanks so much for your input everybody - still work in gprogress....

Jo

I cannot believe anyone would be looking for their money. I would be mortified and guilt ridden if that was me. It goes way beyond money in my book they have limited a life! Not broken a toy. It is disgusting that breeders have to protect themselves like this.

Dolly dog, I am so upset for you, what a terrible, terrible, thing to happen, it is heartbreaking, but you're not alone, try not to blame yourself, although I can imagine we all would. {{Hug}}

Breeders often have their heart in their mouth when visitors are here, you want to be polite but often allow a stranger to do something we never would, most of us breeders are on the floor with the wee ones, not risking such a thing aren't we? But often when our pups new owners are in our homes we try not to look as if we don't trust them, well...... we shouldn't trust them, always be frank and strict they are your pups until they leave that front door and other people are often scared of holding them properly, not used to how a pup moves or downright careless, most of us have had some carelessness happen with a pup and we learn never again.....always holding whilst sitting on the floor and always never taking your eyes off them.

So sorry that potentially this poor pup has had the worst happen, I'll have my fingers crossed that a miracle will happen, sometimes......... they do........ don't give up, maybe she just needs some internal swelling to still go down, it can take a long time.

Let us know how Lexi is, and my heart goes out to you, please don't beat yourself up, you're caring for her and loving her and it is all you can do and she is lucky to have you. xx

Am I wrong going by my gut instinct - how do I stand re deposit?

Your gut instinct is all you can go by, the only thing you can trust.....

If the child was told off by the parents and listened, I may be inclined to let it go if I thought the child would be watched and supervised at home, if the parents did nothing and did not even ask him to calm down, then hold onto that pup. (This is why 7 + has always been my minimum age for a pup to a family home, apart from the once when I was well and truly impressed by the child, but normal, active, playful children don't get a look in with me.)

As for the deposit, it is a contract as we know, you can return it and ride your luck, but if they take you to court, you'll lose, although no judge will ever force you to give up the pup, very unlikely they will go that far though. I'd ride my luck, tbh unless the pup were going to a countryside home, hikers or they were planning on agility, flyball or some other activity home, I'd have given them a wide berth anyway, you're right that children and an active pup is just asking for trouble.

They are bound to be peeved though, especially after two visits and a deposit, as far as they are concerned the deal is done and dusted and the pup is theirs, who wouldn't be annoyed?  Adding in that the children are probably excited too, with lots of talk at home, whoo.....you can't expect them to be pleased at all, I don't envy you letting them down......... but go for it Jo if you are unhappy, we are the ones left to live with our decisions, just return the deposit and explain as best as you can.......

......if they kick up and demand the pup maybe offering another £50 for wasting their time too is an option? Play it by ear, I have my fingers crossed for you.

To be honest as they have damaged the other peoples pup, then theirs is forfeited in the other family's favour and they should be thankful your not asking for the vets bills to be paid.

If it were me I'd be asking you to keep the deposit, as the lest I could do..

I would too Brainless, I'd just feel so guilty, I'd automatically offer my pup to the other people, but I guess not everyone is like us....

As the breeder I'd find it hard too, but as a deposit holds and acts as a legal promise for a pup, no pups are actually owned by anyone but the breeder until full payment, so in effect, she was holding the breeders pup with her permission, not any come back here, other than morally, so legally the lady still gets her pup which she paid the deposit on, nothing can legally be done.

It is a terrible accident...... but like you Brainless, I would just feel so guilty I'd be in tears myself and would forfeit mine.