Myself and my partner are at the end of our patients with our 6 and a half month old Lab.

He is a very hyper, exuberant and in your face dog. Even the dog trainer where we take our pup training to said she has never met a dog like him and she's been training for years and has several dogs at home and throught her life.

He never sits still. He's always in your face. We cant seem to do anything that will tire him out. He chews everything. I mean everything. We've taken everything we can possible think of out of his way ... only to come down this morning and find he has completely ruined one of our sofa's after leaving him there for 5 mins. Its like he knows it will annoy us.
He always jumps up despite us always doing what was advised to stop it. He lunges at our children and bits them ... they are scared to even touch him now. He will bite at us when we try to take him into the kitchen to keep him out the way. He bites when we walk him ... he basically bites everything. We have got to the point that we dont enjoy our pup any more and are worried about the safety of our children.

Please help and advise!

Labs in their younger months/years can be a right handful!! my boy was a hooligan when he was going through the Kevin stage, and acted like everything you have taught him has been forgotten, as he matures he will grow out of it.......when he hit 2yrs he mellowed out, mind you i can still see that glint in his eyes at age five!! lol  :)
Just wondered what his daily routine is?
Have you thought about crate training?
It may feel like he is doing it to annoy you, but he is not, how do you react when you catch him doing something he shouldn't?
Someone with more experience will be along to help you soon but i wish you all the best :)

Hi Bouncya,

Well, I say shame on the trainer for making you think he is acting out of the ordinary, having trained labs, this is exactly what they are like, which is why when I see a post of anyone wishing to have a lab with young children I always air caution and try my best to disuade them.

They are hyperactive and in your face, they don't sit still, these are the traits of a lab pup. :-)

Have you read the post on bite inhibition, (hopefully someone can put up the link for it, sorry useless at that sort of thing JG, Brainless are you there?  :-) ) You must stick to the rules of this ridgedly, with OW's and segregation for a few minutes, you need to be consistant with your training and make sure he knows what you say goes, otherwise he is segregated.

Do not leave your pup in your room, always pop him in a puppy proofed area, kitchen, utility, coservatory, with a dog gate when you are not there to supervise.  Make sure he gets plenty of exercise (30 mins twice a day) play at home and mental games too, hide and seek, training games in the garden.  If he is nippy on walks, get him to carry a ball, play with a dummy retreive games, he will love all of these things.  Boredom can make a pup choose to chew and nip so play games with him, when you are busy, segregate him to an area with a knuckle bone for wind down time.

Above all else, please don't think he is being naughty, he is a lab pup, that is how they are, just take control of him by segregation, and occupying and distracting him from negative behaviours.

They are very full on pups, but they grow up to be wonderful adults.  Hopefull the link will be up soon, it will help you a lot. :-)

He started waking up at 4am. So we let him out for the loo then put him back to bed. He'll then either wake up about 5 or 6 am.
One of us gets up to feed him and then he gets taken for a walk.
We then get ready for work. My partner works full time and I work a couple of hours a day.
So all of us leave about 7.30-8am.
When I get home from work he is played with given attention and I do some training with him.
When my partner gets home from work between 6-7pm he'll take him for another walk after he gets fed.
The kids are then sorted for bed then we're back down stairs playing and doing about 15/20 mins training with the dog.
I feel we give him as much time and attention as we possibly can and possibly give him any more.

My dog was also hyper as a pup.
Things which helped:
ensuring he was NEVER left unattended anywhere he could get into trouble (four of us live in the house, and i work from home much of the day, but for the couple of hours twice a week i go out to work and at night he was put into a large crate in the kitchen with a stuffed kong etc, other times i took him with me wherever i went),
finding a different puppy class where the trainer seemed to like him rather than regard him as a nuisance,
changing his food to a higher quality food,
gave him serene-um tablets,
taking a very calm positive attitude to training, with everyone at home doing lots of obedience training every day,
i wrote out some 'dog rules' which were on the kitchen wall, and reminded everyone of how to behave with the dog to keep him calm,
making sure he got plenty of walks.
I don't know which was more important, for me at the time it was just important to try everything i could to solve the problem. The food certainly made a difference as on occasion he has been fed cheaper food again, when we've run out, and he's been a bit  excited again for a couple of days. I think everything together made the difference, together with just making our minds up that we were going to take charge of the situation and not let it happen anymore.

Hi,

I second what Carrington says, he sounds like a normal lab pup to me.  Labs are whirlwinds of energy as babies, and that's what he is, and are notorious chewers.

Just to start with, while it may feel like it he is certainly not doing anything to annoy you aand thinking like that is not going to help either of you.  He s a baby that is learning - they use their mouths to explore and he will most definitely be teething at the moment, where the adult teeth settle into the gums.  He is also liklely entertaining himself when when he is bored.

How longs are his walks as he shouldn't be getting any more than about 30 mins per walk at the moment to protect his growing joints.  How long in total a day do you think he is getting one to one time?

I would give him two or three shorter walks a day.  Do four or five, five minute training sessions througout the day.  Spend time playing with him which builds up a bond, playing can also incorporate training.  Give him stuffed kongs and interactive toys to help tire him out mentally.  Don't leave him on his own in unsafe areas at the moment because this is just setting him up to fail.  Make sure you focus on some of the positive things about him and praise him when he does the right thing.  Things tend to go better when you teach them what you do want them to do and reward for that, rather than telling off for what you don't want them to do.  Good luck

I don't know much about Labs specifically, but have Goldens, which are a little similar, I believe. I also have three children, from 4 to 12, the youngest is disabled, so it is imperative to me that my dogs behave around children. (and everyone else for that matter!)

I do not allow my children to play with the puppies, ever, until the pup starts to regard them as a bit boring. They are allowed to sit with the pups, and stroke them, but they are never allowed to pick them up, are given strict instructions on what to do if the puppy gets excited around them, or tries ot jump up/bite etc. (eg. stand up, very still, with arms folded and stay silent, turning their backs if they need to) It works pretty well and the pusp quickly learn the childrne are not their littermates or playthings, but he childrne still get to intereact with them and play with them appropriately once sensible behaviour established.

As for the chewing, your dog does not understand that sofas are not for chewing, and he certainly isn't doing it to annoy you. What he probably is doing is realising it is not safe to chew the sofa when you are present, but he can chew it succesffuly and without being told off if you're not there. Make sure that when you correct him you are showing him what to chew, as well as telling him what not to, and make sure he does have plenty to chew. If you can get some good bones from your butcher (feed them raw, and larger bones such as beef leg bones etc) you'd be suprised just how much chewing them will calm him down and wear him out. I also make 'doggy ice lollies' in the summer by freezing meat stock plus veggies or meat into a tupperware or similar and giving ot the dogs frozen, they love them and they are good for teething pups.

Good luck. On the plus side, from what you have said abotu your dogs behaviour, he will be easy to train, once you find out what motivates him and how to go about it. :-)

Hi
You say he is taken out first thing in the morning 7.30-8 am . Then when your partner gets home from work at 6-7 pm he is taken out? so in between those times is he not taken out for another walk?
Maybe you could find a dog walker to take him out for a lunch time stroll, that's if you have young children and he's rather a handful ? A girl I knew had a manic white Alsatian and the vet advised her to take him off canned dog food as some can cause hyperactivity same as with children ? The reason he is destroying your house is due to boredom and anxiety, I'm afraid the cute toilet paper ads on TV don't let you in to the reality of owning a labrador at all. When you do walk him find somewhere safe to let him off lead maybe meet other dog walkers in a field when they muck about with others they burn themselves out far easier. My terrier is crossed with a black lab and ate my sofa and a her nice new comfy bed for 2 years she was a chewer while I left her to go to work and she had my other dog to keep her company.. lab's can be a chewy lot ! Exercise and diet should settle him down to be a little more manageable in your home..As for your doggy trainer telling you he's the most manic dog ever..that does not really help you,  but only reinforces the issues of your hyper puppy.  Maybe a one to one session would help with a behaviourist visiting you all in your home?

Good luck! :) 

Even the dog trainer where we take our pup training to said she has never met a dog like him and she's been training for years and has several dogs at home and throught her life.
that's absolutely dreadful!  This really undermines your confidence. Sounds like a typical lab.

I have one in my class who is this age and the pup is way too bouncy and silly but the owner is just not assertive and is not really comminicating with the dog. When we take the dog he is much calmer and respinsive. It is normally us as people who need the training whuich is why we go to training class.

Anything by the author of this article http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm (Ian Dunbar) is good, he did some good videos (there was also a TV series called Dogs with Dunbar, much better than some of the ones shown these days which are aimed at the bad dog come good idea), if you google his name, well worth investing in.

I dont know a lot about labs but the general rule is if they're not being stimualted mentally or exercised enough they will destroy things. If they've got excess energy they will get rid of it anyway thry know how whether it be a nice walk or ripping up the sofa

What food is he fed if you feed a high protein food this could possible make him more hyperactive ? Although not my breed I do have a very boisterous breed myself and this sound all too typical for a  Lab.

Where do you live Bouncya? Maybe someone can recommend a more experienced trainer.

I agree with the others, he sounds like almost every lab pup I've ever met. The only ones who weren't like that were ill.

Think this is normal behaviour for most pups of active breeds. Also think he is training you well ;-)

First sit down with the rest of the family and a pad and paper, decide what you want of your dog once he is adult and trained. If you do not wish to get up till 7.30 then don't. If he is destructive, which I understand may Labs are, then house him in a room that he can't damage or invest in a large cage of nights and when you are not there during the day.

Do take into account this is a working breed (even from show parents) and they need entertainment and stimulation or they will find some for themselves.

Your trainer should be helping you not telling you that your pup is a lost cause, try and find someone else who is prepared to help you deal with the situation you find yourself in. Have you spoken to the breeder, if not do so as they can be very supportive till you get through the puppy and teenage stages.

Agree with the others - he sounds completely normal to me :-D My Dobe was an absolute nightmare for biting and jumping up. None of the usual things worked (yelping, turning your back, walking away etc) and most served to send him even more berzerk. It was difficult to remove him from the room and segregate him due to the living arrangements here, but a lot of people find success with that (best done with a long house line attached to the dog so that he doesn't see you trying to grab his collar as yet another game of biting) - you must be consistent though and do it every single time.

One thing I did find success with was using toys to let him take his energy out on, teaching him fetch etc. I did play tuggy with him when he seemed to be on the way to going OTT and it did almost always defuse the biting behaviour (important that the dog knows an "enough" or "leave" command though, and only I was the one who played it with him - I never let my niece and nephew as he was simply too strong from day one). Funny thing is that now if I even show a hint of displeasure at something he's done (he's 4 now so doesn't happen much) he runs to his toy box and grabs his tuggy! I also used to get bitten all the way on a walk (standing on the lead like a lot of trainers recommend sent him nuts!). I got round that by giving him a toy to carry or using a tuggy. Only downside is that I now have a completely toy obsessed dog :-P

Good luck!

Edited to add: also meant to say that it's advisable to feed the dog after exercise rather than before.

I know exactly how you feel and Ive struggled on for a year with my weimaraner for the same reasons, you got to the loo come back theres a wee on the floor and everything has been destroyed bins raided an emptied and zips torn off the sofa!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to say this is doggy life and normal to a degree, I solved it by crating my dog when shes alone and over night especially after we came in from shopping and she had turned on the gas hob and could have blown herself and the house up!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is behaviour of a dominant dog, you leave the room they take whatever they can get! they constantly put everyone in the house in their place by nipping and snapping eg: you move them so you can sit down youll get a nip.

It is very hard to tire out a dog like this as they feel as they are top dog if they sleep they arent protecting and managing the pack (ie you and your family)

The key is you decide what the dog does and where to dog goes in your house, no upstairs and no following from room to room. The dog has to work for everything: excercise food and affection in that order.

1, walk your dog time on the lead is more than time off the lead, interact with your dog, you are the focus not the walk

2, feed your dog after the walk they have earned it and worked for it, dont get fed if jumping around like a loony until sitting calmly

3 when your dog is fed and tired this is time for training not too much but simple sit and stay, paw, come and so on

4, when dog is calm and laying nicely they get affection , reward for the days work and reward for being calm.

5, set house rules, no dogs in kitchen while cooking and no dogs around when eating, visitors greet you and not the dog..etc

I hope this helps it did me the key is that the dog must work as you tell it before it gets rewarded, your in control of all it does and receives.

I crated over night as it was the only way to stop her peeing and pooping all over my floors, not just one or two your talking eight or nine poops greeting you in the morning.

She still has a few dominance issues with other dogs, she sees them and instantly tries to put them in their place not all owners appreciate this though....

Mands

This is behaviour of a dominant dog, you leave the room they take whatever they can get! they constantly put everyone in the house in their place by nipping and snapping eg: you move them so you can sit down youll get a nip.

No it isn't, it's just a dog being a dog, one that hasn't learnt to behave yet. :) Dogs are not dominant to people, that's a myth.

Arent dogs shown how to behave? how come some dogs just behave? I agree its a dog being a dog but not all dogs behave like that and thats behaviour that shouldnt be allowed to continue. If dogs arent dominant to people how do you have dogs who control their owners every move, Ive seen dogs not allow their owners to go from room to room or into specific rooms or even on thier own bed, isnt this dominant behaviour?

> This is behaviour of a dominant dog, you leave the room they take whatever they can get!

I must disagree with this. I would class my old rescue dog as 'dominant',  in his younger days if he wanted it, he would have it, doesn't matter who was with him, he didn't have to ba alone to steal and even stole a cake that my husband was taking a bite out of!! It took some work to get through to him, but he has never lost his oportunistic ways :(

A dog that takes something when it is by itself is being an oportunist - a very natural canine instinct that has nothing to do with dominance or hierarchy (IMO).

The OPs dog is 6 months old, he is a playfull pup that is looking for stimulation and needs some direction as to what he should be playing with. I would be very annoyed with the trainer who said they never new a dog like this, they can't have trained many dogs if they've never met a high-drive pup. This pup needs more mental & physical stimulation along with constitant rules with patience & understanding. He isn't deliberatley doing things to annoy the owner, he hasn't learnt what is acceptable yet, and when he does learn he still needs to learn self-control to comply with the rules.
A high energy pup that knows he shouldn't eat the sofa, will have trouble restraining himself if he is bored with energy to burn :(

> Arent dogs shown how to behave? how come some dogs just behave?

A dog cannot do as you wish without being shown what it is you require. A dog cannot be born knowing what it's future owners will consider acceptable; they have to be shown that some actions and behaviors are acceptable and some are not.

If you are lucky enough to have a pup that fits into your life style without training your are indeed fortunate or the dog is unusually lethargic.

People have different standards of obedience and tolerance so we teach our dogs to suit our needs and not the other way round.

Mands, I have to say I agree with Marianne, the behaviour mentioned is NOT the dog trying to be dominant. It is normal doggy behaviour, so the dog will continue to behave in that way until it is given a reason not to.  WHy on earth wouldn't a dog chew your furniture? What else could it possibly be for? Of course it is going to chew the furniture when you're out of the room, it isn't safe to do it when you are in the room, as the dog gets reprimanded. Dogs have no concept of right and wrong, only safe and dangerous.

I'm also sorry (and somewhat saddened) to say that a dog that bites people who try to move it, or one that barks at other dogs it meets is most likely under-socialised and frightened. What a miserable existance that must be for a dog.

This is behaviour of a dominant dog, you leave the room they take whatever they can get!

I meant the overall behaviour not when you leave the room that is something that my dominant dog does!!!

Agreed the pup doesnt know how to behave so once controlled and trained by the owner isnt the owner the dominant one then and not the dog any longer?

I ve been around many dogs and only had 2 to behave this way, my springer never chewed anything I hadnt give him, IMHO I think dogs will do what you let them get away with and are opportunistic theives

Gosh! quick to shoot me down!!!!

I agree its a dog being a dog but not all dogs behave like that and thats behaviour that shouldnt be allowed to continue. If dogs arent dominant to people how do you have dogs who control their owners every move, Ive seen dogs not allow their owners to go from room to room or into specific rooms or even on thier own bed, isnt this dominant behaviour?

No it isn't. :) It's dogs knowing how to work their owners, that's all. A few links for you to read up on the misconception of the dominance theory: http://dogpublic.com/articles/article.aspx?sid=14&pid=1640
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/dominance.htm
http://www.teamworktraining.co.uk/approach.asp

> This is behaviour of a dominant dog, you leave the room they take whatever they can get!

I really think you are attributing thought processes to the dog that a dog is not capable of. If destruction takes place when you leave the room I would think it is either boredom or anxiety.

> Arent dogs shown how to behave?

showing a dog how to behave is not enough, it needs to be consistant, for example teaching bite-inhabition doesn't happen in 1 session.

>If dogs arent dominant to people how do you have dogs who control their owners every move, Ive seen dogs not allow their owners to go from room to room or into specific rooms or even on thier own bed, isnt this dominant behaviour?

I do believe that some dogs can be dominant, but they can only act like this if thier owners allow it. My rescue dog really did try to rule the house when we first gor him, it took a lot of work to get him to realise that he had to do what we said & not the other way around.
My rescue dog may have been 'dominant' due to previous owners not being able to controll him, in which case the 'dominance' could simply be that he has learnt he can control humans.
My pup has been taught from day 1, that he must do as he's told, this has always been shown to him in a very kind & gentle way, but firm, (never forcefull or physical), consistnacy is the key to gaining control/training. A dog can quickly learn what it can get away with, if the owners are inconsistant or unsure, I'm sure that if my pup was brought up by people with no confidance and no idea how 'naughty' a pup can be, and no idea that training is a continuing process (as opposed to teach the dog once & it should 'know') then he would be a lost cause by now :(

Agreed the pup doesnt know how to behave so once controlled and trained by the owner isnt the owner the dominant one then and not the dog any longer?

No, the owner is not dominant, and neither should the dog be 'controlled'.

Training is not about controlling your dog, it is about teaching him what the various prompts, or commands mean and finding what his or her motivation is, so you can motivate the dog to follow the command. Or at least, that is what good training does.

We are naturally in charge of all the dogs resources, such as food, walks, playtime (if we chose to be), so we can easily be in charge of motivators for training.

> WHy on earth wouldn't a dog chew your furniture? What else could it possibly be for?

lol, my pup decided the sofa must be for weeing on - he jumped on it & peed on it while I was in the room - he looked very pleased with himself (& it was a new sofa :( )!!!!!

Hi there

Im sorry but this is a normal 6month pup, I have one similar and they do get better as they get older.

6months is a real baby, he wants and needs your attention like any baby would, I feel the breeder should have advised you how demanding puppies are and that with young children as well you may find it difficult.
I know a few people on this board have said before they wouldnt sell puppies to people with young children and I totally agree.

Unless you are a experienced dog person ie.someone who has grown up with dogs all their life then I wouldnt let you have a pup, liike ive just said they are very demanding and crave attention, if you have young children I imagine they also crave attention and probably get more than the puppy.
You dont say how long he is left after you go to work in the morning, but they shouldnt be left for long periods, and he needs to be stimulated ie going to puppy class etc...not long walks that may damage his soft bones.

It does sound like you are struggling and not happy with this pup, if you are considering rehoming him now is the time to do it before he gets any older so it will give him a chance of a nice new home.

Have you contacted the breeder for help? She should be your first port of call and will take him back (if she is a responsible breeder)

Beth

Training is not about controlling your dog, it is about teaching him what the various prompts, or commands mean and finding what his or her motivation is, so you can motivate the dog to follow the command. Or at least, that is what good training does.

Exactly! Just like people go to work because they get paid, not because they get punished in any way for not doing it.

> Training is not about controlling your dog, it is about teaching him what the various prompts, or commands mean and finding what his or her motivation is, so you can motivate the dog to follow the command. Or at least, that is what good training does.

But isn't being able to get a dog to follow commands, being in control?
The DDA refers to dogs needing to be 'kept under proper control' and a dog 'out of control' in a public place is in violation of the DDA.
Also, unruly children may be termed as 'lacking parental control'.
Control is not an evil thing, it doesn't mean punishment & restraint, when a dog is under control it is following it's handlers/owners commands, training is the the way in which the control is gained. Good training is positive reinforcement - leading to control, poor training is using fear & punishment to gain control.

The dictionary refers to 'control' as to dominate or command, hold in check or curb, so no, I don't see the fact my dog does as I ask as me controlling her. I see it as her being compliant because she wants to.

> I don't see the fact my dog does as I ask as me controlling her. I see it as her being compliant because she wants to.

why does she need to comply with you if you do not need to control her?

When a dog is trained well, it is obedient,

obedient means:

'submissive to the restraint or command of authority : willing to obey'.

to control means

I think there is little point in training a dog if you don't need to have some sort of controll over it

>why does she need to comply with you if you do not need to control her?

Teamwork. Dogs are far better than us at many things, so it's best to acknowledge it rather than deny it.

I think we just have a different perception of control.

I see my relationship with my dogs as one that is mutually benficial and based on trust and understanding. For me, control doesn't come into it.

> I think we just have a different perception of control.

I agree :)

> I see my relationship with my dogs as one that is mutually benficial and based on trust and understanding.

That is how I see my relationship with my dogs but I also like to know that I am controll, especially of my pup - he weighs more tham me and it would be awful if I had no control over him, esp. when out in public.

It's all just words. Doesn't have to be taken literally. The DDA was not written by people who really know dogs, and the word obedience was chosen for dog training decades ago when it involved very different methods to now.

Hi
just out of interest what are you feeding him?
I would suggest you use a crate to prevent chewing when you are not with him
Asa

Just wanted to add my sympathies, we have a collie/lab cross, lost count of the number of times we regretted getting him!!  But don't give up, now at 15 months he's getting much better but it's been a long haul, just have to keep plugging away at the training and just believe that things will get better with time.  TBH I'm hoping he doesn't get TOO much calmer as I love his out-going, fun loving, life loving spirit!

Mine too!  My youngest was a real pain (in every way), I stopped the biting by shoving a toy in her mouth every time she came near when she was excited and bouncy.  She, even now, picks up a toy whenever she is excited, even going off to search for one if there isn't one to hand.  She still dances and bounces but nowhere near as rough as it used to be, just in a joyful way.  I also used to pop her in her crate when she got out of hand, she loves her crate and will quite happily go into it just for a snooze or to play with her toys out of the way of my eldest. 

Hiya,
How are you getting on with your puppy?

Re your leaving home at 7.30-8.00: What time do you get home? And what is the puppy doing during that time?