Blue

Maybe you have your opinion of what you do but others have equally good opinions and things which work for them. 

Credit card companies don't just give credit cards for the sake of it.  And why rake yourself into debt if you can go to work to keep things going along nicely. 

The post has gone completely offhand, but no one on this forum needs a lecture.  We are all adults and have a RIGHT to do what we think is correct and not what other people tell us to do.

Well done Kelly on all of your efforts.  You have done everything within your possibilities.

Hi Ells-Bells,

Yanno I think your post has summed everything up to a tee. That is by far the best advice I would pass on to other would be breeders. Yes everyone has to start somewhere and I have done monotonous research on breeding as well as having years of experience of my particular breed...both keeping as pets and working them. Bottom line is no one knows everything and even if you think you do something unexpected can and unfortunately for me has and this can affect even the most thorough plans.

I appreciate everyones opinions even if I do not agree as I feel that it is a key part of learning and growth as a person and in terms on knowledge.

Thanks,

Kelly

To be 100% honestly Kelly my last few replies are not really directed at you and think whether you think your situation is right or wrong is irrelavant. I think you have taken most on the chin..
and I can bet my weeks wage that next time I bet there is more thought and planning put into the litter. 

What I don't like is all the people who jump in and say " stop picking on people "  when to be frank it rubbish. Everything I have said is not personal, you have my word on that. My comments are based on the welfare of your puppies. Honestly.

If any would be breeders read this thread and are given food for thought then I will feel I have done something to stop unplanned breeding. 

Hit by hard times. This can happen to anyone that is why with Planning an emergency credit card could be kept for this purpose  NO?????   That would not have affected you at all Financially. So whats the problem with pointing this out to you or any FUTURE breeders who may find themselves in a similar situations.

oh come on Blue, anyone of us can be side swiped, it happens. Money that was there can suddenly be swallowed up by another emergency. Not everyone has the ability to actually have numerous credit cards. You have said you are a solicitor who works for debt collectors, you know how bad the state of affairs is for many people now. She had the money, something happened and it went. End of. She had a problem and wanted help, thats what this forum is all about, yes?

You know, people make mistakes, they make errors of judgement, people let you down, things go wrong, and we manage as best we can.

She is being very civilised, calmly explaining herself, willing to let bygones be bygones. She wants advice, maybe there are some on here that are ready to give this advice, someone is willing to give hands on, this is what she needs, and what shes asking for, as have many others. if you are going to be selective about who has advice then I don't see a point to the forum. It is open to all, yes? Even if a regular poster, or a fairly new one.
As I see it, she is answering openly and honestly to you, with the comments you have made, fair enough? :)

Blue niceto see your usual charming comments again.  This isn't a communist forum. 

What a very nasty and horrible thing to say to someone. I feel very sorry you have to be so personal.

Calmstorm, I don't doubt this. I think Kelly is taking it well and as I have said to her I think she will plan better in the future. If she does my comments do all they are meant to do.

I think "some" of the posts backing up some of it are wrong.  Plain and simple.   I can hold my own :-D  I know and believe my breeding practices do not put my pups at risk. That is all I can do.

I certainly am not being nasty not compared to some of the childish personal replies.     If she was nearer I swear I would have offered assistance.   She could have a loan of my mum.

In fact a very well known breeder not far from me found herself in a sticky situations and my mother and I helped her out for nearly 2 months.    

No I haven't :-D  You have me confused with someone else Calmstorm sorry

if only I could find the credit and banking thread about bad debts.....because i am sure you did some very lengthy posts about that very subject, from your position as a solicitor but then if I got it wrong then i'm sorry.

Well glad this has been somewhat diffused. And yes you are right Blue I certainly will be planning better in the future but to be honest this was not due to your comments but my own experiences however all of your suggestions have been taken on board and I certainly hope other would be breeders that stumble upon this thread do read it and take heed.

I doubt I will breed again in all honesty; the main thing I have learnt is that you cannot rely on anyone even the people you would have trusted your life with and that is a sad fact.

I appreciate everyones offers of help and it is very heartwarming to know there are people that are willing to offer their time (which means more to me than financial aid) as it truely cannot be repaid.

I will endeavour to keep everyone updated as to the 8 pups progress.

Thanks,

Kelly

just wanted to say to whoever said this

but I didn't have the luxury of anyone else's financial support.

neither did i when i bred my litter but i took 8 weeks off from work and had help from hub and 4 teenage children and it was still hard work! if i couldnt afford it i wouldnt have done it. and as far as letting the bitch get on with it alone, well, that sounds like what you would do in a kennel/puppy farm situation. my puppies were treated as very precious and not just because of their financial value but we also loved them. i cant imagine coming home and finding a couple dead and squashed because no one looked after them! not only that but to socialise feed and keep them clean you still need someone there nearly all the time. poo pickups are non ending!

I typed a reply but when i tried to post it said error. Don't know where it has gone but from reading it, it was getting very personal so I think the moderators took the thread off, rightly so as this is an open forum and personal grievances should not come into it.

Kelly as it is now back on, I am sorry to hear about your little man, you did the very best for him and unfortunately it wasn't to be. Breeding brings us lots of happiness as well as heartache also, as you have experienced. Enjoy the precious bundles as the 8 weeks we have them soon flies by, I cry buckets when mine leave.

Hi Floradora,

Thanks! Im really not looking forward to rehoming them at all lol I know I will be very upset and I also know I will want to keep one :S lol will defin make the most of the 8 weeks and looking forward till they are a lil older and more mobile :D fun fun fun...mess mess mess hehe

Personally I think there is a happy medium between constant supervision and a short time without, some of us are literally alone and do pop out to the shops etc. 

Generally though especially before their eyes open supervision is pretty constant, and once on their feet keeping them fed clean and socialised is very time consuming.

A lot of people contemplating breeding just have no real idea just how all time consuming rearing a litter well can be and how demanding pups are as they get more mobile.

People often think the arrangements they have made will be adequate, a couple of weeks each off work etc.  Then when there are pups are still with the breeder when annual leave has run out things can get very fraught.

I think this is all that people were pointing out for others reading  these forums.

I`ve been out for a couple of hours and have now caught up with this thread ,firstly I am amazed how some of you turned on Blue she made many valid points which I agree with .Blue I have found your advice invaluable in the past and would welcome it in the future.
Kelly you have taken it on the chin and hopefully you`ll have learnt something that will help you .

trekkiemo.........I think the post has been modified. lets leave it at that yes? :)

Yes things have calmed down and not before time and I hope there is not a repeat.

I too, have just caught up. Lets remember most of us can disagree with another person at times, but in this thread Blue has given her views and in my opinion, they have been bang on. I have noted with concern recently how many people seem to be asking advice when it is clear that litters are on the way with very little forethought and research. I would not have bred a litter without the help, guidance and experience of another breeder. I realised at that time, too, that one day someone may want to breed from one of my babies and that would put me in the position that I would be their "experienced breeder" and would be the one to be asked for help and advice. I cannot understand why so many people seem to be going ahead without the back up of the breeders of their dogs, or some other breeder.  I can honestly say that I am 100% sure that if I found myself in "difficult circumstances" with puppies expected or on the ground, others in my breed would rally round to help, as would I (and have, along with others in the past) in similar circumstances.

I will be very upset and I also know I will want to keep one

Tin hat on and firmly strapped down.

Were you not planning on keeping something from the litter Kelly? I dont' want to say for showing etc in case it is a breed that is worked. Do you have plans for the litter?

Could the stud dog owner help you at all?

> Were you not planning on keeping something from the litter Kelly?

Pam, not meaning to single you out but you haven't kept a pup from every litter too though, have you?  There's lots of breeders on CD who haven't, I feel I'm in a minority with regard to keeping a pup from every litter.

Re: knowledgable breeders there for advice.   When I bred my first litter, I had someone in the breed who was going to come and help me, I was paying her train fare so she could get to me.   2 days before she was coming she backed out and gave me a phone number of friends who'd be on the end of the phoneline if I needed help.  I was told not to try her as she lived in the opposite side of her house to where her phone was so she'd never hear it  - so I was literary thrown in at the deep end.   You can prepare yourself but some people aren't always so reliable.

Would it be true to say that, even if a litter is bred with the intention of keeping a suitable one for the show ring (or whatever the breeder does with their dogs) if the litter produced does not have that puppy in it, then they will all be sold? Or, as JG has pointed out, a litter needs to be bred by the bitches age being 5 yrs, if a puppy is wanted at a later date then a litter would be bred before one was intended to be kept? There must be, simply by numbers of puppies bred, from large show kennels be litters born for sale not to be kept. many then go on to do well for their owners in the show ring, as well as the fireside for those that want a well bred companion. If a breeder owns a breed that is rare, would they not breed at times simply for sale (to the right homes) to keep the breed going?

Christine....that sounded awful, but it does show that even the best laid plans by the novice/new or even experienced breeder can go wrong.

In Response to calmstorm

Agree and do as you have said for the reasons given, but usually someone breeding their very first litter will intend to keep one, even if they realise in time that the quality wasn't what was wanted.  Hindsight is a great thing and I probably would not have kept the bitch I did from my first litter if choosing now, even without knowing how they turned out, as with expereince I woudl ahve kept a differnt pup at the puppy choosign age.

re breeding to keep a pup

i bred my litter to keep a good quality girl for show and future breeding plans but at the moment the pups look like they have some colour faults although this can change.

hubby has fallen in love with the big boy from the c-section and i must admit so have i so even if you have plans thing change and decision are made as to whether they are good enough for your plans unless you are breeding for a pet pup to keep.

Christine - what I was pointing out was that nobody can rely on just one person when it comes to a commitment like looking after puppies. Nobody can expect another to put their own life on hold for weeks in case help is needed - more than just one emergency backup should be in place. Perhaps I am just lucky in my breeder/showing friends, but I really think that this is just another benefit of showing/working your dogs before breeding a litter, as you meet people who will be able to offer and give help if needed. Most breed clubs, as well, I am sure would "rally round" in dire circumstances. The main point is that you need to know the right places to go to ask for help - which will never be the case for people who decide to have just one litter from their much loved pet.

I have bred 4 litters and kept a pup from each. Because of my age and the number of dogs I now have, I realise it will be very unlikely that I will have another puppy. Surely, most people breed their first litter intending to keep one, but unfortunately that does not always work out due to whether the "right" one is born. A litter should never (in my opinion, anyway) be whelped without good reason - including the fact that people who have had a pup in the past want another from you (even though they could have one from another breeder). I am sure many of us on here feel we are good breeders and that we should continue to breed our dogs so that others can benefit from having a well bred, healthy puppy with correct socialisation, rather than stepping aside so that poorly bred dogs can take centre stage. I will certainly breed more litters even though I will not be in the position to keep one, unless someone can give some very good reasons not to.  

Gosh nearly missed this one. Would hate not to reply :-D

CHRISTINE WROTE : Pam, not meaning to single you out but you haven't kept a pup from every litter too though, have you?  There's lots of breeders on CD who haven't, I feel I'm in a minority with regard to keeping a pup from every litter.

Hi Christine , I don't mind you asking at all, nothing to hiding whatsoever :-D    BUT Sorry Christine you are very very incorrect. I am not sure where you get this information or why you thought that or even how you would know that but sorry you are very mistaken :-) 

I was going to say that I thought you are NOT in the minority on Champdogs BUT I think I have to agree with you on this one now that has changed though over the last couple of years.  Most people I am freindly with in dogs on here or in the real world ;-)   always keep something or at least run it on but then most people I know are breeding for the show ring and not just for a litter of puppies. There is the exception to some people who's perhaps letting one go to a good show freind with the plan to get something back etc IE continuing lines nothing wrong with that either

seeing as you have asked

I may be making a meal out of this reply and it may lead to a branch but as God as my witness Christine I have NEVER EVER bred a litter without;

1)100% intention of keeping something (at least 1 anyway)
2) Running something on till it is at least 6 months old (Teeth change) if not 12 months. 

In the litters I have had there is only 1 litter that I didn't keep one puppy past 4 months old. That was a litter with 4 dogs in it. I already have a male dog so was struggling to keep another one as mine are all in the house   That pup went to my freind down south to be shown he was 13 weeks old.

From my last litter (which is the same dam who had 4 boys in her last litter above) I am running on 3 pups and I am 100% keeping 2 pups from it !!!!!!!!!!!!!! you will see them in the ring :-D

On a slightly sideline to the above,

Christine like you,  not singling you out but as you have brought up a good point,   the comparison between my breed and your breed is a good comparions as they are so different in lots of ways. Hope you don't mind :-)  But I am just going to use you and I as a comparison to show that things are not just as cut and dry as a guarantee a top honour winner from every litter. You often point it out that you must be doing it right and have had a good winner in each of your 3 litters.  I am not saying in anyway that this was easy , heavens no, or that that you don't deserve every credit entitled for breeding them and showing them hard to achieve this BUT just for this comparison I will compare your breed to mine;

My breed has an average 3-4 pups. I average 3 and 75% have been males!!!!!!!!   So I have not been as fortunate as you to get a pick from 14 pups . Not that I would ever want 14 pups Hell no BUT would love the pick from that amount ,   I love the 3s and 4s.       Am I right your 3 litters you had something like 14 in each?  that is 42 pups  !!!   being honest and as I said not taking anything away from you with that numbers I would also being honest be expecting something great in every litter. 

Maybe someone better than me at ratios can work this out :-D but % you are far more likely to produce a show winner in a litter than size that a litter my size and I haven't even got to the numbers shown in each of our breed :-)

that is the equivalent of 14 litters based on my average per litter LOL  :-D   

You are also in a breed where the numbers shown are probably 1/3 or even a 1/4 of the entries my breed has.   Would need to check but it is certainly 1/3.

Of the litters I have had I am really happy how my breeding program is going and I see great progression in the quality so I hope I am going in the righrt direction.

Using the comparison of you and I, the puppy total I have had which is nearly half of the total of your pups. Not sure if you want my wins but happy to publish them if you want to know them. :-) .. I am very proud of the dogs I have bred.  The bitch I am showing and her mother which I also bred have done very well.  Happy to list them if anyone wants to know :-D

Also, lets not forget that a "good" breeder is looking to improve the breed, and sometimes this can mean using a dog to introduce a specific improvement - health, pigment, coat: whatever. This could mean that it varies in overall type from what the breeder prefers but in another generation the improvement comes through. That breeder cannot be expected to keep a puppy from the mating that produces the "prototype", as it were.

> That breeder cannot be expected to keep a puppy from the mating that produces the "prototype", as it were.

Why not?  That is exactly what I have done with my last pup.  I got the new bloodline but unfortunately she has a cosmetic fault that will hold her back in the ring somewhat (there were only two bitches and I had promised show potential to someone), so I won't campaign her, but in the fullness of time I hope to breed something better from her.  I could have homed her on breeding terms, but I cannot bring myself to let one go once kept past the puppy stage

I Admit that I have decided to hedge my bets and if there is a nice bitch in her mothers next litter I will keep that.  I will home pick of litter from the young bitch to possibly be able to have a pup back from it in case I loose her fertility later, but aim to keep something from a later litter as long as she doesn't get Pyometra or whelp all males next time.

benson our bully pups totally changed colour in the first couple of weeks, they were really really dark (like matched their masks) the first few days and their nails were white and all had white chest flashes- by three weeks all their colours were great, gorgeous apricot reds the lot of them with black nails, even their white marks on their chests shrank dramatically (my girl now has a couple of hairs that you have to look very closely for), so don't go worrying about that yet!

Hi Christine, ( not great at short posts)

Just out of curiosity and not having a pop at your question,  but seeing as you did raise it :-D , it got me thinking, whilst I had a min there I did a quick calculation in my head ( never had to think it all though before :-D )

I worked out ;

A total of 28 pups (average of 4 per litter sorry not 3 as first said in previous post as my last two litters brought the numbers up again)
Of they 28 pups I kept 9 pups in total. 

Of the 9 I have 6 left that I have kept and own.  

The 3 that I no longer own:
First one of these was from my first litter after teeth change she only had 5 incissors. She lives with my brother and I still trim her etc.
Second one was a beautful bitch but a little small for me preferred type at 4 months, I let my good freind have her as she loved her type and she is now an American Ch.
Third one was the the dog from the litter of 4 dogs  my freind now has him..

The 6 I own:
1 is 4 1/2 years old, done/doing well and one is 1 point of Am title.
1 is 3 years 1/2 old, done well in the ring. She was the hand reared singleton girl she had one litter and now spayed.
1 is nearly 2, daughter of above. Currently showing her and doing quite well with her.
3 are children of mother that had 4 males in her first litter. Running on 3 , definately keeping 2 of them. If I let one go it is to a show freind.

Going back to your original question that I haven't kept a puppy from every litter and you have, and so you don't feel so alone in that minority ;-)  wait for it  :-D :-D ;-)

Hoping that I am right about the 14 in each of your litters , I know it was something like that.

You have kept 3 pups from approx 42  that is 7% of your puppies you have kept.
I will have officially kept 5 permanently from 28  that is 18% of my puppies I have kept. ;-)  

OMG....now I am soooo confused........maths not my strong point by any means........but....if....

Pam, not meaning to single you out but you haven't kept a pup from every litter too though, have you?  There's lots of breeders on CD who haven't, I feel I'm in a minority with regard to keeping a pup from every litter

and Christine has bred 42 puppies, this means she has loads!!

Dosen't it.......*****confused******.......not just 3?

:-D :-D :-D  Sorry  I didn't mean to drag it out but was just making a little comparison about how if you have huge quantities in litters you have more chances of getting that show puppy.

Christine said she kept A as in one puppy from each litter.  She has had 3 litters and kept one puppy from each making 3 dogs in total :-)  BUT each of the litters had roughly 14 pups in each.   :-D

Barbara - I must have my dumb head on today - of course it would be pointless to introduce the new blood and not keep one to breed on - I think I was trying to say that a couple of different matings may then be necessary from the offspring to get where the breeder wants to be, so a pup is not necessarily kept from each breeding. (If you see what I mean)

> Gosh nearly missed this one. Would hate not to reply :-D
>
> CHRISTINE WROTE : Pam, not meaning to single you out but you haven't kept a pup from every litter too though, have you?  There's lots of breeders on CD who haven't, I feel I'm in a minority with regard to keeping a pup from every litter.
>
> Hi Christine , I don't mind you asking at all, nothing to hiding whatsoever :-D    BUT Sorry Christine you are very very incorrect. I am not sure where you get this information or why you thought that or even how you would know that but sorry you are very mistaken :-) 
>
> I was going to say that I thought you are NOT in the minority on Champdogs BUT I think I have to agree with you on this one now that has changed though over the last couple of years.  Most people I am freindly with in dogs on here or in the real world ;-)   always keep something or at least run it on but then most people I know are breeding for the show ring and not just for a litter of puppies. There is the exception to some people who's perhaps letting one go to a good show freind with the plan to get something back etc IE continuing lines nothing wrong with that either
>
> seeing as you have asked
>
> I may be making a meal out of this reply and it may lead to a branch but as God as my witness Christine I have NEVER EVER bred a litter without;
>
> 1)100% intention of keeping something (at least 1 anyway)
> 2) Running something on till it is at least 6 months old (Teeth change) if not 12 months. 
>
> In the litters I have had there is only 1 litter that I didn't keep one puppy past 4 months old. That was a litter with 4 dogs in it. I already have a male dog so was struggling to keep another one as mine are all in the house   That pup went to my freind down south to be shown he was 13 weeks old.
>
> From my last litter (which is the same dam who had 4 boys in her last litter above) I am running on 3 pups and I am 100% keeping 2 pups from it !!!!!!!!!!!!!! you will see them in the ring :-D
>
> On a slightly sideline to the above,
>
> Christine like you,  not singling you out but as you have brought up a good point,   the comparison between my breed and your breed is a good comparions as they are so different in lots of ways. Hope you don't mind :-)  But I am just going to use you and I as a comparison to show that things are not just as cut and dry as a guarantee a top honour winner from every litter. You often point it out that you must be doing it right and have had a good winner in each of your 3 litters.  I am not saying in anyway that this was easy , heavens no, or that that you don't deserve every credit entitled for breeding them and showing them hard to achieve this BUT just for this comparison I will compare your breed to mine;
>
> My breed has an average 3-4 pups. I average 3 and 75% have been males!!!!!!!!   So I have not been as fortunate as you to get a pick from 14 pups . Not that I would ever want 14 pups Hell no BUT would love the pick from that amount ,   I love the 3s and 4s.       Am I right your 3 litters you had something like 14 in each?  that is 42 pups  !!!   being honest and as I said not taking anything away from you with that numbers I would also being honest be expecting something great in every litter. 
>
> Maybe someone better than me at ratios can work this out :-D but % you are far more likely to produce a show winner in a litter than size that a litter my size and I haven't even got to the numbers shown in each of our breed :-)
>
> that is the equivalent of 14 litters based on my average per litter LOL  :-D   
>
> You are also in a breed where the numbers shown are probably 1/3 or even a 1/4 of the entries my breed has.   Would need to check but it is certainly 1/3.
>
> Of the litters I have had I am really happy how my breeding program is going and I see great progression in the quality so I hope I am going in the righrt direction.
>
> Using the comparison of you and I, the puppy total I have had which is nearly half of the total of your pups. Not sure if you want my wins but happy to publish them if you want to know them. :-) .. I am very proud of the dogs I have bred.  The bitch I am showing and her mother which I also bred have done very well.  Happy to list them if anyone wants to know :-D
>
> <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" height=10 alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" width=20>

14 puppies in each litter - yes - but not every one was born alive and neither would I have wanted them to be.  So from 42 puppies, I have had 12 dead/PTS in total so it takes percentages down somewhat & your wayward mathematics out.

> Pam, not meaning to single you out but you haven't kept a pup from every litter too though, have you?&nbsp; There's lots of breeders on CD who haven't, I feel I'm in a minority with regard to keeping a pup from every litter.
>
>

Pam this is all I wrote, I didn't go and get the Terrier BRS to start quoting how many litters you'd bred -v- dog's you've bought in/kept whereas you've obviously felt the need to justify what you do and make comparison's to how I breed, the why's & wherefore's about my dogs, which makes it personal.

Gosh Christine.  :-O

I never felt the need and never would need to but your questions and statement got me thinking.  Nothing wrong with that. I put my own dealings with my dog just as you have.  As a example.  You say quite regular that you have had 3 litters with huge amounts numerous times, how would I know otherwise. It is something I dont' seem to do. 

The bottom line is and your are right about one thing I could have said it in two sentences I have never NOR will I ever breed a litter than I have not real intention of keeping at least one pup. 

BUT Christine had you said, " Have you kept a pup from every litter?" as a question then I could have answered BUT you actually made a statement saying I hadn't  

If I wasn't so thick skinned and confident in my doggy activities I could have taken that as a implication that I have bred a litter with no intentions of keeping anything from.

You said you were in the minority, but you are in a more fortunate breed than some of us, that doens't make you or anyone else better than the rest  you then said I hadn't kept a pup from every litter I have bred.   That is a personal statement that I felt was incorrect and a little personal. Especially when you don't know if that is true or not.  I wouldn't have ever said that not knowing someone's business as little as you do ,  in fact I wouldn't have said it at all in the first place. I would have asked.  It is "How you wrote the ONLY thing you wrote"     I felt had to reply!!!!!!!!!

I didn't really like the comparison or having to do it but that is two or three times I feel you have made a personal statement and all have been incorrect.  I ask you kindly to refrain from doing it please. 

In Response to Fillis

> Barbara - I must have my dumb head on today - of course it would be pointless to introduce the new blood and not keep one to breed on - I think I was trying to say that a couple of different matings may then be necessary from the offspring to get where the breeder wants to be, so a pup is not necessarily kept from each breeding. (If you see what I mean

Yep that is exactly how it works.  I only normally keep one pup from each bitch, but I like to try her out with different male lines so as I can either plant something useful somewhere that I can come back on later, or see how a line works with Mum before trying it on daughter.

By having litters from different males you can see what traits are coming through from the bitch line and which males/lines she is clicking best with.

So yes I am choosing which recipe has given the results or which one I can add something to to try and get that cordon bleu dish. :D

Unfortunately I can't keep each of the experimental dishes as you meant to say, but hope that some of them will be added to other breeders/potential breeders cook books, or to the breeds recipe collection overall.

If for some reason the dish or recipe is lost having those similar recipes still around, you can bring them back into your collection.

Maybe a better comparison would be blending of wines.

I think that is exactly in Barbara.   Not all "trials "  give the best cake but for future thinking of lines and the breed people have to do them I think to bring a little fresh blood in or to help/correct whatever the goal is.

When you look at some kennels they have been so clever and I suppose tough at times to.   Without them though some of us wouldn't enjoy the breeds we do today.  

We have so few breeders in my breed in Scotland which is really a shame.  The pet market has gotten further and further away from the breed standard. 

I wish we could get people into our breed for the right reason.  So many older people have went out and nobody has replaced them.

> I wish we could get people into our breed for the right reason.&nbsp; So many older people have went out and nobody has replaced them

That is the major problem facing the pedigree dog community.

there are fewer and fewer well bred and thought out litters an more and more causal/BYB/Puppy farmed ones.

I wonder out of those 46 thousand Labradors bred in a year (where do they all go!) how many litters are bred by conscientious show, working breeders or even those bred by Guide Dogs and Assistance dogs.  I bet it is a tiny proportion of the total

Come on anyone with a  BRS and in Labradors.  How many litters in a particular quarter in each category?  And that's just the registered stock.

I think probably over the years in my breed in particular trimming has became so so important.   This alone is one of the hardest things to get right, I believe personally the presentation makes a huge impact on the showring to.

I think after 6 years of constant trimming , I mean constant trimming I am finally turning out the dog I want or as good as. ( I mean trimming BTW)  This type of commitment is hard to get people to put in now. I understand it, we all have busy lifes.   Most people would honestly be shocked how much trimming is involved in some breeds.     I did 4 hours last night on one dog.   On Saturday I sunday I spent the best part of the day stripping out two youngsters.

A good freind of mine told me one day how she fancied a  " Wash and go dog"..  I laughed when I read it. 

Another good freind  who I was talking with tonight has dropped out the ring because she feels her trimming is just not good enough. She has lovely dogs to.

Anyway that was just another little thing I think that has an impact. :-)

I totally agree, Blue. Its the same in my breed plus, unfortunately there are varying views on how the trimming should be done, which makes matters even worse. I spent the afternoon trimming one of mine (that is not entered at a show in the near future either). The 3 entered on Sunday were trimmed last weekend - and I mean over 2 full days and will be "snipped at" again after another bath and comb through on Saturday.
Showing is a big commitment to newcomers - especially those with families, and learning to trim to a reasonable standard on top, is just too much for many.

In response to Brainless. I am not in labs and cannot find my current brs but from winter 07 4th quarter of labs registered in 07 10,418 labs. Have had a quick glance through the brs and it appears that from quick calc lots of them are registered with ken*** or pet names (no affix) approx a quarter of them but as just about to do school run haven't got time to study prop. From 06 lab reg were  45,700 and 2007 stands at 45,079.

Hi Kelly

So sorry to hear about your puppy.  I haven't been at work for the last couple of days so have just caught up.  I think even without the money issue you did exactly the right thing.

I am sure your plans never intended for life to turn out how it has but sometimes these things cannot be helped.  I have found myself in difficult situations before and perhaps that is why I have compassion.  On one of my litters last year my husbands shift changed halfway through a litter and so I was haivng to race home at lunch time to sort out my puppies on 3 days a week then the kids took over once they came home from school.  It wasnt ideal but it happened.

I am not a inexperienced breeder and have bred and owned several champions but sometimes no matter how good your plans life changes and you should not have to justify your actions.

Good luck with your new job and I hope the rest of the litter goes well.

Chloe 

Thanks Chloe.

UPDATE:

Pups are doing fantastically, eyes are opened (or almost) and they are toddling around in their whelping pen. Mum is also doing well...eating me out of house and home hehe dont know where she puts it!

And yes I was planning on keeping one...that red boy I was hoping for lol...not sure now going to see how they progress as their colors will change as they mature and a lot of it can be guess work

Thanks,

K

Thats great :)
A lot of joy amongst heart ache :) )
Lea :)

Really good news Kelly, I'm pleased to hear things are going well after such a sad start.
Best wishes :)

>It is rare that I have a poo in the kitchen

I should hope so!

brilliant news that the other pups are now up and about and of course mum being well too