i really need advise

my girl keeps laying on her pups she does not move off when they squeek

she had c-section today

i am really tiered and am worried that i may not hear them in the night

Is there someone else who can share the pup-watching shifts with you? They really do need someone with them full-time if mum's recovering from surgery.

we have both been up for three nights and only had a hour sleep here and there taking turns

i think we will have to keep this up for a few more night but am worried that one of us may fall asleep on our shift

would the bitch reject the pups if i put them in a box tonight and then supervise feeding

Hi ,your girl will still be drowsy from op that will be part of it ,do you have pigrails in her box?
I know I hadn`t slept for 48hrs and fell asleep sitting on edge of bed so if someone could look out for the pups while you get some sleep is the best advice I can give you.

she has just done it again and i am not even asleep yet

Don`t take the pups from her ,tried that with my girl she got very distressed

we do have pig rails but they will not help she was coming out of her box i think she needed a wee but as i went to take her out to the garden and she turned and layed on them in the middle of the box i think it is protectiveness

she's probably groggy from the drugs still.

how is she if you move them? dunno if you;ve read my other reply on the first thread but our bitch was totally fine with us around the pups, we sat in the box with them and she'd happily leave them with us. if your bitch is ok with you being involved then it sounds like you should maybe involve yourself with this. of course if shes not then you don;t want to stress her out more than she is.

dunno if this would help (more experienced breeders jump in!) but could you maybe put them in a heated box inside the whelping box? so she can lay by them but not on them?

thats the prob with bullies, they are a bit clumsy anyway...

they have been taken away a few times today cos of the op and has been fine so far but dont know when she is more awake she did go for a wee and went strat back in and layed on them again

is she ok with you touching them? just gently move them next to her, hopefully she'll get the idea.

does anyone know if the box idea might work?

our girl is a cuddle monster so we sat in the box, she'd snuggle in and the puppies would 'swim' up beside her and get cozy, worked pretty well. whether you could try something similar depends on your bitch though (and the size of your box). maybe guide her down as far from the pups as poss and move them next to her?

she is happy for us to be there we have had to be with her allday im going to bed and my son will be with them untill 12 if anyone can help he will keep checking this thread

i'd just gently intervene each time then, she'll get the idea. it's got to be pretty overwhelming for her so a dozy day or two's got to be expected.

enjoy the sleep!

We all have to put up with this benson, c-section or not, Dam's are notorious for sitting on their pups, and not moving even when the pup squeals it's head off. Our bitches are so attentive to their pups, but for some reason if they sit on them their attitude is just hard luck! I think that many of us would loose pups if we were not so watchful, and it is the reason that I sleep with the pups for at least the first two weeks.

Pups are to size of the bitch whichever breed so it is the same with us all, just harder for you to budge her off. :-)

When my bitch gets up, I always round the pups into the middle so that when she sits again they can then move back to her, without being squashed, you will also have to watch when she is more mobile that she does not dig bedding or whatever you use over the pups and suffocate them, as she will naturally dig as in the wilds to cover scents and wee's.

Pig rails are a great help, seperating the pups, I know in America they do that, hate the idea completely, pups need their mum's body heat and continal suckling.  You have approx 2 weeks of this, so sort out with hubby different watches, don't be afraid to sleep, you will hear the pups if you are in the same room.

Try to get little naps, it is hard work I know but worth the effort to get all live pups.

Good luck! :-)

> seperating the pups, I know in America they do that, hate the idea completely

i know its not ideal but would it work for the evening till bensons gotten some sleep and the bitch has gotten less groggy? just as a temporary measure? then they can all start with fresh heads and get things going?

benson (or bensons son, hi!) i'd suggest that you make up a schedule for the people who are helping out. we scheduled who was puppy watching, who was cleaning and feeding people, who was looking after my nephew and the other dogs and who was sleeping etc. it ment there were no fights and everyone knew their jobs.

though you tended to find that whoever was sleeping or cleaning liked to finish quickly to do more puppy watching lol, they are just entrancing (are their ears sticking out and all pointy cause they've no flop yet? i thought that was so cute :))

Separating them is a bad idea - they need to suckle every hour or so to get the milk to come in. Because your bitch has had a GA and is still coming round from that you need to organise 'watches' of three or four hours, so one person can sleep (or at least rest with your eyes shut) while the other's awake to make sure no harm comes to the pups.

Could you put them in a box next to her and set your alarm every hour for feeding in case you drop off on your watch?
Angela

> We all have to put up with this benson, c-section or not, Dam's are notorious for sitting on their pups, and not moving even when the pup squeals it's head off. Our bitches are so attentive to their pups, but for some reason if they sit on them their attitude is just hard luck!

I have found the same, though after a few days they usually are a bit better, or more like the pups get better at wriggling free, but mine is just a medium size breed.

I lost a pup in the middle like that after a long drawn out labour and having been up two nights in a row.  worst thing was there was a weak pup that later had to be PTS, and it was the biggest most mobile pup that was laid on.

After a C section a bitch will be especially clumsy and slow to get the hang of things.

I sleep with my head at the foot of the bed next to the whelping box so I can get my hand into the box at any squeak.

There is no way a bitch of mine would allow me to seperate her pups from her, she'd go demented.

benson says shes letting her move them etc though so as long as she can see and snuffle them etc she maybe would be fine with it. they could be let out and on to feed every hour or so, at least the person with them could doze in relative comfort/security.

my feeling is just that while not ideal it's better than risking her being clumsy at a moment where the watchperson has dozed off. i can't imagine the guilt if something like that happened, i was broken hearted when we lost 2 through natural causes.

i was thinking maybe a low sided tray that the bitch can lie next to? not really a proper seperation cause i don't think that would be good for mum or pups with a heat pad and blanket and each other the pups should be warm, she can't roll on them but can get to them ok. like a doggy moses basket :)

My Bulldog had a c - section we had a clear box and put in hot water bottles then on top put on vet bed, I would take the pups out hourly to feed of her then wee and poo them and put them back into the box.
As they got a bit older and  could move around we would leave the pups with her but make sdure some one was in the room basically i leaved in the welping box with the pups and mum for the first week

Sorry didn't explain myself well. We used a cat litter tray with a heat pad (microwavable sp? kind) and vet bed for the first day (she had a c-sect) but the pups were never more than 6 inches away from her. Hopefully your bitch would avoid lying on the tray?

In Response to Astarte

Mine are absolutely fine with me handling the pups but they would not let me put them in a box ans would take them out again, as logn as I don't reemove them from her she woudl settle with them.

Also the pups need to be on Mum pretty continuously to stimulate the milk, especially after a C section as milk can be slower coming in.

I looked after a litter of cockers. The mum used tolay on them, so we seperated them and I set the alarm every hour so I would get up and feed them, then put bitch in her crate beside pups and then get up after an hour, let the bitch feedm, sort out pups then back to sleep for an hour and up again.  turned out 1 hour on, 1 hour off .
?But I ill say the bitch was quite happy with this and dogs tured out ok. An they had someoe with them all day
IF your dog is ok wth this and micha (the pups mum) was than ok, but if you take the puppies away from the btch and she i not happy then I am afraid you will have to be awake or fond someone else to be in shifts 24
Good luck
Lea :)

Most bitches would not be happy with their pups being seperated from them even in a closeby box.  I wouldn't chance it myself.  Unfortunately you'll just need a few of you that can take turns looking after the pups.

Good luck.

part n parcel of breeding...
i stay with my pups 24/7 for the first week,
i snooze but rarely sleep,
after a week im like death warmed up very tired and very twisty,
but to me its all part of it all..
after a week i feel more settled and pups are thriving,
all bitches are different,
i have 1 who i could leave immediatley after whelping as she is so good...but i dont..
i set alarm for every 2 hours just incase i doze off,
maybe you could take it in turns with some one for at least a few days till she is fully aware and over anesthetic,
if you get few hours sleep then swap with some one,
good luck with them
hope all works out for you
jayne
xx
i wouldnt like to seperate them and maybe stress her out then she might not produce milk.

thank you every one for all your replies

the night was a bit of a mix between pups in a clear sided box in the whelping box she was happy with this the only time she was worried and tried to lay on them was when i was taking then out of the box for feed i had to put two at a time down on the floor of the box and as she lay down to feed to feed i had to move them out from under her and onto her teats she has been feeding and sleeping with them constant since 3am and has been really good

we have just brought her back down stairs and the only worry she has is when hubby tries to give them to he she seems a little more protective when he handles them than when i do.

we have one whelping box right next to the bed and when i did catch a little sleep my head was over the edge of the box i woke for every little squeek.

we also have a whelping box down stairs in a room off the lounge with cctv camera in there so she can have peace and quiet but i can she what she is doing at all times when i am doing kids breakfast, making cupa tea and dealing with the other dogs so seems to working well at the moment,

last night i was sooooooo tiered i was panicking that she would lay on and kill one or more of these pups and yesterday was such an emotional day i really thought i had lost the two born by c-section then to see her laying on them was terrible.

she is never left without some one either in with her or watching the camera she will not be left at any time i have a friend that will be taking the smaller kids to school for me hubby is finally going out to work today we need to earn some money somehow we are lucky as we have our own small business and can chose to work when we want but this also means no work no money.

i have three kids at junior school and two teenagers that work plus a hubby so i am lucky to have lots or us to take watch shifts but last night i did not trust the teens to stay awake late at night and as they would not wake when a bomb went off would not trust them at night.

The first 24 hours is the worst emotionally and physically as you are completely drained of both.  She has probably been a little agitated.  It does get better :-)     After my first litter was born ( ie just hours after it) I said never again :-D     My last litter started at 7am and finished at 11pm.   My bottom was raw for days.  Glad you survived the night.  This is when you learn to power nap with one eye open ;-)

When I tired putting my pups in a box in the whelping box with mum, either because of a c-section or because she's about to produce another, I found mum tried to get in the box with them, even a small box, which is probably more dangerous as she could sit on the whole litter in one go!

It is hard work but in time it will get better, good luck!

So glad to hear you got thru OK with no probs.Puppies are very hard work but worth it. I spent the first 3 weeks with my puppies watching them, no housework got done and the kids spent as much time with them as I did.
Good luck with your litter
Angela

great,so pleased first night gone ok for you,
keep us posted..
jayne
xx

glad last night went smoothly benson, don't worry she'll get the idea quickly and become less clumsy and the pups will get strong fast so are slightly less stressful to keep. i really would recommend haivng a schedule though so you can plan in when everyone has other things on, means no one gets everything dropped on them and everyone can get a reasonable amount of sleep

she has been with them since 3am and is now starting to sort of nudge them out of the way with her belly when trying to lay down so i think thing can only get better from here.

please do not think that i will be less vigilant now as that will not happen.

but i am feeling much happier about her mothering skills.