We have had a couple of fights between our two boy dachsies.  The first was after the aggressive one (Oliver) had been taken down from the grooming table and another when we bought them into the house after being in kennels for a week.  In addition, we had been aware and thought we had minimised the Oliver's habit of having a bit of a go at our other boy when going in and out of doors.

We have been this afternoon to a very well respected behaviourist and are to embark on a relaxation programme for both the boys (the other, Rupert, has fear aggression at shows and club situations but that is all).  The behavourist has drawn up a programme for both boys.  Oliver is guarding his space and needs to learn he doesn't have to do this.  He is fine with the girls - the oldest (dachsie) is alpha simply through age and respect and our youngest girl (GSD 1 year) would be rather a handful for Oliver.  Rupert is the weakest and the behavourist thinks that is why Oliver is bullying him.  Oliver is on a houseline so that we can calmly take him away from Rupert when we see this unacceptable behaviour starting.

Well, that is a potted version of the background but the behaviourist also feels it may well be a Testosterone problem and strongly recommends we get Oliver a tardek injection which will tell us if it is.  Then of course it is indicating that we really need to consider neutering.  But given Oliver is my main show dog this would be pretty much a disaster although in the end we want to keep Oliver but still it really is a last resort and my feeling is that behaviourists are keen on neutering but perhaps in this instance I am being a bit unfair

I would be interested to know if anyone has had similar problems with males or what comments you might have.

Many thanks.

Louise

What ages are they? We had problems with this between our Swedish Lapphund and Rough Collie. The collie was younger and as he got to around a year old there were spats almost every day. We had the additional problem that one went to work with my OH while the other stayed at home with my parents, as a result there were new meetings everyday which was a trigger for aggression. It didn't work out well in the end as my daughter (age 3 then) got into the middle of a fight (or her leg did). Her leg was fractured as a result and we had no choice but to give the collie back to his breeder, who was delighted to have him back and I'm sure he was much happier away from all the aggression. You may be lucky and they may settle but that might depend on their relative ages. you certainly have my sympathy as its not easy living with battling dogs. I hope that the behaviourist can help and if you try the injection it will help you decide whether to take more permanent action.

I can't help re the behaviour, but I've often wondered if it isn't possible to neuter without removing testicles, basically a vasectomy like human males have! Of course you would still need the authority to compete form to show him I assume, but it wouldn't be immediately obvious to a judge and therefore penalised like neutered males often are.

Superlorin could be the answer & it's due to be available in the UK this month

Lucy,

A vasectomy wouldn't affect levels of testosterone in the body and would be pointless for reducing aggression caused by testosterone, can see why you thought of it tho ;)

Can't add to the comments on the aggression as would need far more information ;)  hope things work out.

Thanks for all your comments.  To add Rupert is 4 years and Oliver 2 years.  We had another spat today but specifically while our GSD was being fed so we can rectify that by simply removing all the dachsies when she eats.  Usually they are not that interested in her meal but all three were watching today.  Given that there was just one small sort of graze wound on Oliver I think it was more show than anything. 

Moonmaiden - I guess I was hoping I might see there was something as an alternative to neutering if it is felt that to be a major factor but the link to Superlorin says it can't find the page.  I managed to get a bit of info by doing a worldwide google but nothing much for the UK.

Goodness can't they be a worry.  But on a positive note my GSD has at long last learnt to retrieve this week.  Just need to get her presenting nicely and we will be there :)

Louise

> basically a vasectomy like human males have!

yes it is, my aunts former stud had one. worked brilliantly. however he's much bigger than a dachsie so essentially it was the same as you'd do on a human. i imagine a dachs would be fiddlier

ETA though dills right about the hormones. thats actually why my aunt went for it- she didn;t want the 'balance of power' among the dogs to change

Try this link I've just tried it & it works

Many thanks Moonmaiden.  I am very keen on the implant so hopefully it will be in the UK soon.  Meanwhile we are going to take Oliver through a relaxation programme and also Rupert.  A big commitment but not that timeconsuming.  Just 5-10 mins a day but it will be over a long period.

Louise

Good News Louise. Suprelorin will be available in the UK from around a week on Monday, spoke to the Senior Vet Nurse @ the practice I use & she's going to order one for my Rjj as soon as it is available-at the moment it will the 6 months version only

Well after yet another fight that is great news.  To be honest if it is behavioural my DH is not sure he can cope.  He is the one at home during the day and suffers from bipolar.  I think if we can go for the implant and see how things are from there it would be great. Didn't appear it would be too expensive.

I'm not so worried re fights, but if Jessie ever has a real season Rjj will be a real pain in the youknowhere & I don't like castrating my dogs

I've suggested it to a friend who has a young dog whose hormones can get the better of him of times !

They say it doesn't affect future fertility (they say that about delvesteron, but plenty of evidence it does) but how much research has been done to make sure dogs don't end up permanently sterile?

For me that isn't a problem as we don't intend to breed but I agree it could be a concern for others.  I have an appointment at my vets on Tuesday and will be interested to hear what he says.

Lots & lots Barbara it is use in conservation project for wild animals were they don't want to over breed, but don't want to castrate & affect the pride, packs etc etc. & also they can be put back into the breeding program when required It's used to treat prostrate problems as well

Wow that does sound handy then.

It's been round for 30 odd years !!!!

I do hope that you can get something to help Dachsie lad. I know how your OH feels because I was the same when my two started, the noise of a dog fight is enough for me. The thing is the more stressed you become about it, the more the dogs stress because they sense your stress so the fights escalate. In the end our two were snapping at each other every time they met and the final straw was a huge thunderstorm which just sent them both over the edge. Much later we had to have our Swedish Lapphund castrated due to perianal adenomas, we tried the hormone treatment first but it had no effect , but he was much older than your two by then.

I was given these links by my dachsie group.

"The first is from the drug company, the second is a radio interview and the third is definately worth reading.  Dogsonline is a large forum down under with many breeders, exhibitors online.  They tend to get very fired up as you will see from their discussions on this topic!  but hopefully you will be able to read the thread on their thoughts of this implant. "

http://www.peptech.com/HTML/Animal_Health/Superlorin_Trial_Data.html

http://www.abc.net.au/ra/innovations/stories/s1495816.htm

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?s=61bb88be0d971835045f49011c59a063&showtopic=133379&st=30&p=2607919&#entry2607919

Well I won't be using it to show Rjj as there is no point he is a smooth coated BC & 99.99% of show judges wouldn't give him a second glance becuase he isn't dripping in coat. I want to use it to make him infertile until I either have a litter from Jessie &/or have her spayed(she's nearly two & no sign of a season yet), he would then return to fertility. I'm not interested in breeding from him, would have problems homing the puppies because the puppies would all be smooth to & that isn't popular with Obedience BC owners.

As to the discussion, well it's really about people showing & winning with correctr looking dogs that have temperament problems. As castration rarely works in such cases then the implat won't either