Hey Guys,

Up until today all of the pups have been doing really well, even the runt who is about 65% of the size of his siblings was standing his ground. But today he has a very distended tummy and is not interested in suckling at all. I have taken him out and have him on a heat pad and he is sleeping but cries/whimpers quite often when awake, I have managed to get him to take a little Lactol wtih glucose and he has been urinating with stimulation without any issues although I am unable to make him defacate...I think this could be the problem?

What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Kelly

Little soul is in pain could be colic with tummyache.  If mum is still accepting him see if she can stimulate him.Also if cries are high pitched go to vets now.

mum licks him if i hold him infront of her but otherwise he is left to the side.

been tryin to get through to the vets but no answer grrr they are supposedly open till 7pm but might be cos of bank holiday.

his cries arent high pitched just sounds like normal im hungry cries and lil moans/whimpers complaining that he doesnt feel well

have you trie rubbing warm wetted cotton wool to stimulate him??
Keep trying vets. Havnt they got an answer machine to leave message on in emergancy. I think this is an emergancy.
Hope you get him sorted soon.
Lea :)

You really need to get a vet try another if you can`t get your own vet .

yeah i have tried that on and off for last 4-5 hours but always just urinates.

there is no answer machine which is strange, will call 24/7 vets after 7 if they still not answered.

It sounds very much like colic - I lost a 7 day old puppy last year from colic. It is so distressing for him and you (listening to the whimpering and cries). I would get hold of a vet, one that has a 24 hour service and get the pup seen. Sometimes gripe water works just like for human babies, just a few drops with his Lactol.
Good luck

right the gripe water seems to be doing the trick...he has burped quite a few times lol and his tummy isnt as distended as it was earlier. never got a hold of any vet but have a 24hr vet's number on hand....gonna watch him over next 30 mins see how he gets on

just called vet, said main concern is if he is constipated and advised i put use some liquid paraffin to help and if he still hasnt passed in next couple hours to take him in

Don`t wait too long as as little puppies are so fragile ,it still sounds like colic I had a 3 week pup with swollen tummy and not going .I was able to save her with help from my vet.

Does sound like colic, we gave some infacol and then just kept giving drops of warm water and honey every half hour, we spent hours rubbing his tummy but within 12 hours he was back to normal.

D

well he passed blood and some yellow "stuff" so took him to vets...they are keeping him overnight and charging me £225 :| jesus.

hope the wee mite pulls through :(

If you smear his bottom with something tasty it will encourage mum to wash him to help him go.  I have heard of people using honey (a very small amount).  The main thing is to keep his fluids up - I use liquid life aid, it is brilliant stuff and gives puppies the energy required to suckle.

Good luck - I hope you get through this difficult time with your pup.

oh poor puppy.

what are they going to do for that money?

I tried all of that she was licking him no problem but nothing would pass....the vet said there was no blockages in the lower half so might suggest some digestive tract problems :(

they are putting him on an IV drip thats all :| I thought it was an awful lot as well actually....the consultation charge alone is £85.

Poor little mite ,will be praying for him.Out of hour vet fees really are getting high now.

hope pup will be ok

thanks guys :) hope so too, will let you know as soon as i hear anything!

K

awww... poor little thing, really hope he's ok xx

Well its bad news im afraid the lil mite isnt any better in fact I'd say he is worse. They gave him fluids (ivernight stay and IV - £219 I couldnt believe that!!) and he certainly is brighter for it although now he is passing blood and muccous. He is straining like crazy and I'm now worried that he damages his bowels by straining so much....is this possible? Earlier he was trying to push something out and it certainly didnt look like a stool :S

Unfortunately due to me personal circumstances and really bad timing I can't afford anymore treatment and my vet has refused to give any without promise of immediate payment (nice huh) so puppy is home with me and I am making him as comfortable as possible.

Can anyone give me any advice at all?

I am feeding him a little dropper of boiled water/honey mix/gripe water/calpol every 30 mins to see if this will ease it any. At the moment he is sleeping and seems ok but when he wakes he will be whimpering with the pain. I feel so awful :(

hi
It is difficult to know what to do for the best but i wouldn't give him calpol - this is paracetamol and if I'm correct it shouldn't be given to dogs.

I would just stick to glucose water mix but he may also get hungry so you might have to put him to mum to suckle - her milk is the best for him and being close to her will make him feel happier i'm sure.

Did the vets give indication of what the problem might be??

Ring the PDSA they may well help, if the little chap can't be help he should be given peace.

Poor little mite.  You've probably done the best with the vets, if they just have him on an IV and are not operating or offering any other treatment he has more chance of pulling through at home surrounded by the smell of his mother and siblings and you on hand to keep cuddling and rubbing his tum. TLC goes a long way in recovery, it really does :-)  he has more chance of pulling through with you. 

Keep doing what you are doing, keep putting him to mum, put him on the back teats to suckle, make sure that he is getting plenty of milk, I wouldn't fill his tum up too much with the mix you are giving him pups only have tiny tums and he needs the milk to help him grow and give him strength, (even more important than pain relief) and rub his tum with warm cotton wool to help ease the pain, and stimulate, I would lie him on my neck too, to keep his tum warm and give him comfort of a warm body as mum is so busy with the other pups, it should help with the pain a little.

I have my fingers crossed that all will be well.  Good luck.

I was told calpol would be ok for the pups?? :S

he wont suckle at all, just lays next to her and sleeps, plus she is quite rough with him licking him and it obviously makes him very uncomfortable.

The vets don't have a clue, I'm quite annoyed actually as for £220 I'd expect they had done a little more work than just give him fluids.

I have called my mate who is a vert nurse (unfortunately not anywhere near me) and she is going to have a word with the vet see if there is anything else I can do. God I hate seeing him in pain :(

I was sure paracetamol was a no no but i maybe wrong. Ask your vet nurse friend

paracetamol is fine i gave calpol to my pups with colic and it was fine

he wont suckle at all

Are you giving him a substitute milk? Or goats milk with egg yolk, I hand reared a litter on this.

More important to get food into him, or he won't pull through at all.

I would think under normal colic circumstances calpol every 30 minutes was too much though even only a small amount as an immature liver will not be able to process it. Paracetamol should only be used under vets advice.

Hi Kelly it maybe that this puppy has more of a problem than colic so I would be trying to find a more understanding vet.
Mum is trying to stimulate him by being rough with him she knows he shouldnt be just lying there.

Yes im feeding him lactol, tiny amounts though as he cant eat a lot at one time.

The calpol isnt every time I feed him the honey/water mix. It was my vet nurse mate I spoke to about using it in first place.

They don't think its colic, more likely to be sever gastro entiritis. My mate said that vets shouldnt refuse treatement and its standard practise to set up a payment plan in scenarios like this (Apparently this comes from Royal college of vets etc) gonna phone them again.

k

Have just spoken to my other vet and got same response from them but they advised I should call back in 30 minutes to speak to a partner about setting up a payment scheme.

My vet nurse mate just text saying they cannot refuse to see a sick animal as if anything happens to him you can sue them for neglect.

Gawd so much politics and all I want is the best for him and to try to get him better, I will pay the vets bill but just timing and the £220 bill last night has dried my bank balance up.

I'm pretty sure it is more serious than colic now and just really want a vet to help me out a lil!

k

Hi Kelly,

Sorry about the little one but trying not to be too blunt They didn't just only give him fluids for £220 they had 2 members of staff assisting him out of hours.  That is where the money comes into it.

This is why you have to a a Whelping pot of money or at the very least access to it. I would say access to £1000

YOUR freind said My vet nurse mate just text saying they cannot refuse to see a sick animal as if anything happens to him you can sue them for neglect.


Although I would hate to see a vet turn away any sick animal BUT a breeder without money breeding or at the very least an agreement in place that payment can be paid via payment plan perhaps in the vets eyes may seems very irresponsible.  They do have a right to refuse treatment if no payment.     Your freind is wrong about her comments.  It is sadly your responsibility to fund treatment.

I know it sounds hard but this thread my be a good example to people to make sure they have access to monies  even if only on a credit cards.    

I don't hope the little one pulls though but often nature is nature sadly..   good luck. Hope the vet will help you out on this occasion..

I really hate to be the voice of doom however I had a puppy who was in a simliar situation very tiny and in constant pain.  She had chronic renal failure.   I did my best for her until 6 weeks and when the vets did tests we had to have her PTS. 

How old are the puppies?

Blue like I said in my earlier post "due to personal circumstances" I do not have the money I had put aside for this so I find your comments rather offensive. You have no idea of my personal situation and I'd would rather you did not pass judgement on me for not having access to funds that I had put aside for this very reason.

I am not an irresponsible breeder by any means and have kept and bred all manners of mammals and psittacines and paid out thousands of pounds in veterinary care. And as for the 2 members of staff assisting them...when I called they responded by saying she kept her in her room while she slept so if he made noise she would wake to check on him so i'd hardly call that assisting..would you? The last admin of fluids/check up was at 11pm, then when I called at 7am this morning, I have the report in front of me here.

And I have checked with the Royal College of Vet and it is true, your vet (must be a client of theirs) cannot refuse treatment to a sick animal. It may only be basic treatment or even euthanasia but they cannot refuse.

Luckily I spoke to my other vets (slightly further away) and they agreed without any problems to see him. They have xrayed him and the vet has said there is a blockage; basically an extreme case of colic, where the intestines actually coil back inside themselves. He has passed more blood and some intestinal lining so not looking too good. They are going to keep up the fluids and antibiotics and will call at 2pm to update me.

Basically vet has come across 4 cases of this in the last 40 yrs and he wouldnt expect this to happen in a pup so young; normally in 4-5 month old pups that are eating anything and everything in sight. This may point at a congenital problem seeing as he is so much smaller than the rest but certainly could just be a one off, the xrays arent conclusive enough to give any other information.

So decision time is looming - Do I give the go ahead for exploratory surgery which I have been quoted around £4-500 and vet has warned that he may even be too weak to survive it? or do I see how he goes and possible have to have him euthanised? Worst decision I've ever had to make

:(

Chloe they are 7 days today. I am already bracing myself abotu losing him I just want to do all that I can.

Im sorry to hear about your lil pup.

Kelly

Ditto ,I always have money put aside when I breed as anything can happen .I also have a great vet who refuses to take my money until the pups are all gone ,it doesn`t stop me putting money aside as out of hours fees are so high and I want my girls and pups to have the best as soon as possible.

>the vet has said there is a blockage; basically an extreme case of colic, where the intestines actually coil back inside themselves.

Intussusception? Further information.

Hi Kelly

I wish I could say something to make you feel better however having put myself through too many times of heartache I personally would let nature take its course.  If the mother is rejecting the baby it means she knows something is wrong.  Your vet is right at 7 days and a already weakened puppy I doubt he would survive.

I am sorry to hear you are having money difficulties sometimes life is just a pig.  Sometimes everything happens at once and even the best laid plans go wrong and I personally find it appalling at this time that people are condeming you.

Thats the one yup, gonna go read it now. Thanks!!

Thank you Chloe I really appreciate your support :)

Kelly I wouldn't have passed comment really but I personally found your repeated reference to the cost alarming. Think it was 4 times.   Your personal cirsumstances are nothing to do with me NOR have I passed comments on them.

I merely and RIGHTLY pointed out how a vet may view a breeder without an emergency fund whether this was lost or not through other circumstances the bottom line is you don't have one.  I pointed out for other would be breeders to see your situation and be prepared.  What is offensive about that? Would you not want to warn others to try and avoid the situation you are in?

Your vet has given you assistance so far without payment so he has more than assisted so far but they cannot give endless credit sadly.  So they have offered you all they are obligated to.

Sometimes we find ourselves in situations that are not ideal but that doesn't mean we blame others.  :-)

I am not not being horrible just truthful. 

PS I would let nature takes it's course also on this one.

kelly.....this puppy is so young, and has gone through so much, from which she may never fully recover. Even if she recovers from any operations that may be performed now, which I would say is doubtful. I would put her to rest, save her more pain, you more heartache now and in what time she may have post-op, and the horendous cost of vet bills that may never cure her. Sometimes the kindest thing we can do is give them peace, something we cannot give us humans.

My heart goes out to you. ((hugs))

Blue, My reference to the cost is because I myself am alarmed at what they have charged for what little treatment they have given. Again after speaking with my friend she has confirmed this is extremely expensive for what they have actually administered, I would have no qualms with the bill if I could actually see they had done something for him that I couldn't. I was keeping him hydrated and was with him 24/7 not sleeping beside him hoping I'd wake if he cried/whimpered in pain.

I understand totally what you were saying and agree but felt it was a tad personal, it might not have been meant like that but thats how it came across. Surely, me posting this situation is warning enough to everyone without you stating that it is irresponsible to not have access to funds? You made a comment that was unnecessary given light of the sitiuation and I think most if not all posters would agree its very insensitive and not appropriate at this stage.

My vet has only now given me assistance after many calls, I had the pup at the other vets this morning at 8:25am...that time till the time I got him back to the vets could indeed prove deadly...that is the point im making, it's not blame it's a fact. I realise that I am responsible for their lives hence why I am doing everything I can to help. I am not asking for endless credit, and have never been in this situation before and the vets bills will be paid as soon as funds allow it.

I am reading up on the condition now to try and help my decision...doesnt help that he is his fathers double, is heartbreaking to see him like that. Think i'm going to have to think hard about euthanasia :(

I personnly am not condeming poster she is trying to do her best for this little puppy, breeding is expensive and when things go wrong it not only hurts you in heart but also in the pocket.
I am hoping this little puppy will be ok and that poster is not upset at coments we all mean well in our own way.

I am not an irresponsible breeder by any means and have kept and bred all manners of mammals and psittacines and paid out thousands of pounds in veterinary care. And as for the 2 members of staff assisting them...when I called they responded by saying she kept her in her room while she slept so if he made noise she would wake to check on him so i'd hardly call that assisting..would you? The last admin of fluids/check up was at 11pm, then when I called at 7am this morning, I have the report in front of me here.

Thats hardly the 24 hr care I would expect to pay for. No, rather would expect. Regardless of payment. With such a sick puppy I would expect the nurse to stay awake, not go to bed. How could she possbly hear the puppy crying, moving, being in distress, when asleep. What happned between 11pm and 7am? Nothing it would seem.:(

Why were Xrays not performed, why was this little puppy not given more care to try and fnd the cause of the problem, or was it simply just because it was a BH? I'd like to know how that bill reads. I would find the cost alarming for the little that had been done. IMO.

Kelly sounds shaken to me in her posts, she is obviously very worried about the puppy, distrought I would say. Due to personal circs the money she had put aside for the puppies is not there, now anyone of us could fall on hard times that way, its a long 9 weeks from conception to birth. Having a big bill for no result when you are worried sick about the puppy may well make you post in a way that is different to when cool-headed. being so scared that you have a sick puppy and no funds to cover it, and a vet refusing any furthur care and sending you home when you still have no idea of the problem, how to solve it and what to do next will be soul destroying. Hearing the cries and not being able to fix it. A nightmare. Thankfully her other vet is helping. can we please stop  having a go at her during this awful time, she's distraught enough as it is. Yes, this may well be a cautionary tale to others breeding, and a hard lesson for Kelly too, but like I say you never know whats round the corner. Give her some slack. please....

Kelly...I'm sorry I called your pup a girl when hes a boy. Got a bit lost in the post, so Im sorry.

There are several articles about it on the net (it's not an easy word to spell, which hampers the research a bit!), which will help you make a decision. My instinct would be to let the little one go now, rather than put him through so much trauma. Good luck with whatever you decide, though.

I'm so sorry Kelly that you are facing this hard decision however the chances for this pup look slim and I feel it would be too much to put him through an operation. {{{{{ Hugs}}}}}

Kelly, you are being very brave. You need all the support you can get at a time like this. One of our labradors suffered from intussusception at nine months old. We were lucky at the time that a locum vet, who had come across the condition recently, diagnosed the problem immediately and our pup was operated on the next morning. The section of intestine that had telescoped was completely removed and he made a full recovery. But he was a big puppy and had the strength to get fit again. I feel for you and your little pup, he is lucky that you are doing everything you can.

Were you planning on keeping him Kelly? As I hate to say it but to be honest I don't think he would be saleable I don't know many that would buy a pup that has been through an operation with the chance of re-occurance too.

The honest truth is I don't know what I would do in your position, if I saw the pup was fighting, I would fight with him, no matter what. His will power will have a lot to do with a recovery, only you can see him and know, is he fighting to live or not? If you feel he is slipping away, then I think I would be weighing up his chances of survival in going through an operation, the cost is relevant to you in the position you are in and it will have to play a part in your decision, along with the fact you may well have to keep this pup if he should survive too.

You have a lot to think about, but I wouldn't bring him home if you decide against the operation, I would have to let him pass away painfree.

Keep us informed, my thoughts are with you, what a horrible decision.