I bred my first litter last year with the help of someone who had retired from breeding...
I found homes very quickly and had deposits for all before they left us at 10 weeks...
we went to each home, to check suitabilty and made sure they knew the breed well enough to care for them properly.

I thought i did everything correct.... however out of the 9 pups last year, 1 lady called up over a month ago and said they had moved house and could not keep her. i went to invetigate and came home with the dog(now 1 year old) and very well behaved, i found her a new home with my friend from work and they adore each other....
1 lady called last night to say her boy was constantly cocking his leg at everything( now with this one, i was a bit mad as she took the dog at a reduced rate as long as we could use him as a stud dog, but when i called a few months back to organise... she avoided me like th eplague, so i was a little shocked when she called to return him, i said she would have had the problem if she had kept up with training him as he was almost potty trained when he left us...i suggested he get him castrated and to call me if she still didnt want him. as i do not want any of my dogs going to a home... and he was my favorite...

my question is what do you do when this happens. and do you return there money over a year on...
Also how can you prvent this by picking the right home....
i have just had more pups and now i am really worried the homes already waiting will turn out bad...how do you know

thanks in advance

I've only bred one litter, so don't have alot of experience, but I did get one puppy returned at 4 months.  I did not return any money, but it wasn't asked for.  I managed to re home the puppy to a lovely home and asked for a donation to go to the breed rescue ( I think it was 250 pounds).  This was a couple that had had my breed before, but things still didn't work out.

Hi Ratty,
I don't think you could have done anything different in your power to vet the prospective parents, this was just an unlucky episode for you. At least you are responsible and offer support and re-homing. I would take the boy back and no I would not return any of the money back to them personally. If you re-home in then you can ask for a donation to either rescue or if you feel like to return whatever is left to the owners after taking out the cost of keeping the boy for however long you do.

thank you flora and sam....
i was hoping to be inundated with peoples experiances with this problem, as there are soo many responsible breeders on this site.

does anyone else have any good advice on how to vet the new owners.

Hi ratty6666

there was a thread on the forum recently here which may help :)

thank you teri... thats great

How sad Sam-Jo - what happened after that?  I think your situation is something we all dread, but can obviously happen.

Well, the people that re homed the puppy, over a year ago now, are very happy with him. They phoned a couple of weeks ago, to tell me what he gets up to, obviously love him to bits. 
The people that gave the puppy back had had this breed (FCR) twice before, but are now in there 60's and it had been about 12 years since they had last had a puppy.  They had just forgotten how hard and time consuming it is to have a puppy.  A few months later, they re homed a 6 year old Golden Retriever from a rescue who they say is much calmer (as you would imagine), but still want up dates on the puppy they couldn't keep.  When I had the puppies these people were my 'favourite', a lovely couple, but within a couple of weeks of the puppy going, I knew there was going to be problems.  They caused me alot of sleepless nights, they e mailed me nearly every day with there worries.  I had a big sigh of relief when I got him back, as in my heart by then i knew he would come back at some point.  Iwas just pleased it was sooner rather than later.

So pleased all has turned out well.  I have enquiries from people in their 60's who think they can cope, but I don't think they really appreciate how much work a young puppy entails and how much slower they have become even though they either don't realise or want to admit it.

You are responsible for the pups for life.  In my experience about 1 in 10 pups need to be taken back.  As regards refunds it does seem to depend on breed, with mien a dog over a 12 months would not be resalable as such, and over 6 months you would not expect more than half price and being uncommon this might take some time.

Other breeders are readily saleable so a partial refund or offering to sell the dog on for the owner less expenses may be the usual approach.

What did you have in your contract regarding this issue?

> i was hoping to be inundated with peoples experiances with this problem, as there are soo many responsible breeders on this site.

Hi Ratty6666,
The longer you go on with this dog breeding hobby the more you become suspicious/ guarded/sceptical about people...call it what you will but dont expect to develop a 'sixth sense' about something until you have some more experience.... and this can all be chalked up as just that .....experience! 
Don't beat yourself up about it just store it away until next time and 'fine tooth-comb' your puppy people.

One tip though....dont take deposits.....let them walk away, who cares if they weren't right and who on earth wants to bind someone to buy your puppy, they should want to - not feel they have to. A deposit implies that nothing in the time between looking and collecting the pup can change your decision. I very often change my mind and tell the people it's a no-go.Particularily after a second visit when they let more info about themselves out.
It takes time to get the confidence to turn the majority of enquiries away especially with a big litter but I have found that if I have even the tiniest doubt .....I get the puppy back.  So for many years now I just say NO.

thanks for the reply,
Firstly brainless... i copied a basic contract from the net which only stated that i would take the dog back at any stage and re home to a more suitable place. there was no mention of money back. but what has happened now is she has just told me that she is getting th eboy castrated and will let me know how he gets on and if it changes him to standard they are willing to live with... i would love to take him back but it is not possible at the moment with all my new pups, so i said i would call to see how things are in a few months.. im sure castrating him will calm him down and stop him from been so teritorial but she should have had this done before now...

tooolz... thanks fo rthe advice and it does seem the right way if suspicious, however as my pups are very popluar it is a first come and deposit taken that gets the pup( obviously if agreed all ok with potenial owners)if i left it to the day they would all be arguing saying i was at your door first...etc

does no-one else take depsoits for this reason?

The exact same thing happened to me with a pup from my first litter. I just had a feeling he would be coming back and sure enough he did. He now lives round the corner from me with a family who worship him and we often meet with his mom, sister and niece for a good run on the field. i think at some point, most breeders will come across this no matter how careful we are.
mel.

I take a deposit, £50 so not enough for someone to feel they had to take a pup they didn't want to. 

I have a numerically small breed with a limited supply of pups and new owners, so if people are not serious about a puppy it means I may be putting off potential good owners thinking the pups are spoken for, and then getting new owners as good having passed them onto other breeders may take a fair time requiring re-advertising.

I learnt a lesson with my very first litter.  4 pups and only 3 pups to sell, and had three people let me down for two pups (1 original booking came through and I kept the fourth).  I had passed on numerous puppy enquiries thinking pups spoken for.

Generally I start a waiting list of vetted potential homes.  When bitch is mated I contact everyone on the list asking if they are still interested.  When pups are born I contact those still interested in the order they made contact, advising them of the availability of a pup if they send a deposit.  Once I have firm bookings then the reaming people are advised that I do not have a pup for them of the sex preferred, offer them opposite sex if available and they would consider, otherwise I pass them onto the waiting list of a fellow breeder I know that is expecting/planning a litter so they have a chance to get on their waiting list.

If there is a poor balance of sexes it is usual for breeders to help each other and the potential new owners out swapping enquiries.  With a numerically small breed people waiting want to be sure they are not going to end up waiting months in vain.

Hi,
I don't take deposits at all as i had some trouble with a family last time who wanted the dog pup i had chosen to keep and they said if they couldn't have him they didn't want one and were going to the KC about me!!!!!!!!LOL! Anyway i rang the kc and they weren't interested and i rang trading standards just in case they had any rights to demand whichever one they wanted. If you take a deposit you are entering into a contract to supply the goods and then they could have had exactly what pup they wanted but as i didn't they couldn't do a thing and they soon shut up and disappeared. Hence the reason i don't take deposits at all. I just make a note of who was first to book the puppy and let them come on collection day in that order so whoever booked first gets first choice and so on. Works well for me.
mel.

Do they chose a pup when they visit you initially? Or do you not allow choice until the time they are ready to leave?
They can make their choice of pup without a deposit, unless you feel that should they drop out at the last minute you have something financial to help with costs, as they have been timewasters,  or a deposit can make a buyer confident that they have a puppy booked.

last year i took deposits for all 9 pups, as each new owner came to choose there pup at 6 weeks when advertised.
they came to collect at 9 weeks, and i had no problems. was only 2 months ago they started having 2nd thoughts, why do people get dogs and then change their mind when any normal person would have bonded after a short time...
the main problem i thought i would have over here in spain is that if the owner wanted/needed to return to the uk, and which i stated quite clearly i would look after the pup until all tests etc could be done...to follow them on at a later time.
but that is no ones problem it seems to be bad training on their own part that makes these wonderful pup unlivable with...
it makes me mad that  chose the wrong family for such inocent pups that i doubt i will be doing it again....

and who ever saw my last thread on having 2 bitches in whelp at the same time, and someone suggested i was mad as it is too hard work, they were right... it is hard work, dont anybody do it... unless your superwoman.....

Hi ratty666,
I do use a contract,
If new owner changes mind and brings a puppy back within 7 days I will refund money minus deposit.
If new owner brings back a puppy within in 4 months, because of a serious health issue with a surporting vet certificate I would refund total money immediately.

I have had to take 2 puppies back over 10 years.
One because the owner had a stroke. I took the then 2yr old back for two months hoping owner would recover as he adored his puppy, unfortunatly he didn't recover and only when he was rehomed/sold I refunded the money, but only what I got as a 2yr old.
The second I took back at 12 weeks due to allergic reaction from a coucins child, (it was all very strange) and again only when I rehomed/sold him did I refund money, minus deposit.

Most puppy people often visit me even before the bitch is mated, met the girls, I have to like them and they have to like me. Only then will I put them on a list. I ask for deposits when pups are two weeks old, this promises them a puppy, but they are never allowed ever to choose.
How can you tell if a puppies personality will match a families at two weeks. I try my hardest to match temperament best fit new owner.

I feel for you, It's hard enough when you get a new owner ringing with problems, but when it was your favourite it hurts. I think it's probaly just his age and castration is best way to go. Could you not take him back once he's castrated?
Hope it works out for him :-)

i would love to take him back but i have 10 pups at the moment of 3 weeks old from 2 mums, and i have promised my little girl we can keep 1 as she has fallen in love with one, as she did last year but we wernt ready for 3 then. and im sure im not ready for 4 now...lol
we will see what happens you never know he may be the perfect dog once castrated...and theyll love him like they should be doing..

while i am on here, when can the mums be spayed, they have just has a little, but is it better to wait until after there next season or before to get them done....

does no-one else take depsoits for this reason?

I like to take a deposit, as it gives me the security that they are really interested, and if not the deposit will pay for another weeks food whilst I dig out my waiting list for the next appropriate person. It is peace of mind, but it takes a couple of meetings before I will even entertain a deposit on a pup, they have to impress me, I don't have to sell them a pup. Only when I am happy do I take a deposit, which means I approve of them and am happy with my choice for my pup. I also like Brainless just take a small deposit, so if anything goes wrong it is not too much for the new owners to back out of.

If I were in your place, I would be worried about this dog, they have had him for a year, they should be totally in love with him now, if one of my dogs began peeing around the house as much as it would be a nuscience I wouldn't be thinking of sending him back to breeder, it is a strange reason for returning him, it is obvious the problem can be helped. They contacted you which is the best thing and shows you are an approachable and knowledgeable breeder, I just have a cynical view sometimes of people, I'm just wondering if this is a ploy due to the fact that you wished to use this dog as a potential stud, saying a dog is peeing everywhere somewhere along the line would throw out the possibility of castration. Just seems a shame if he was to be a potential stud for you that you have lost this opportunity, there are other ways of stopping a dog from marking a home without castration.

If you truly valued the male, and they truly wished to re-home him because of marking, I would be worried that something else may come up in the future that might cause them to re-home him aswell.  I think you may need to worry that they are not about to be a longterm, forever home for this dog.

And after this amount of time, and with this minimal problem I would offer no monetary return at all if you were to have the dog back.

If he were my pup, I'm afraid my instincts would be that the dog needs to come back to me pups or not, you can always work a way around things. Put up barriers, dog gates etc, things are always workable once you sit and think it through.

> i would love to take him back but i have 10 pups at the moment of 3 weeks old from 2 mums, and i have promised my little girl we can keep 1 as she has fallen in love with one, as she did last year but we wernt ready for 3 then. and im sure im not ready for 4 now

It isn't a case of you not having the room. but as a breeder all the puppies you breed are your responsibility for all their lives & it is your duty to take back any puppy you breed at any age if they become unwanted. If you don't have the room you sholdn't be breeding QED

> when can the mums be spayed

I usually have my girls spayed when their pups are around 12 weeks of age.  In my breed they loose all their coats after the litter and it takes until around 6 months from pups birth for them to be in full coat again.  spaying often has a similar effect so I prefer to get them spayed during the post partum moult avoiding going through a huge moult twice within a short time.

thank you for your replys... i will call my vet about spaying then as soon as possible.
Carrington...i will be calling the owners of him this weekend to take him back, as you have made me think there is another reason they want rid of him. i do not want him going anywhere i dont know about.
i will castrate him as i dont think i will be doing this again for a long time... i do enjoy it and love been busy but the worry i have for them once they leave is like watching children leave home, which is just too much worry for me.

thanks again for all your advice.

Big sigh of relief! :-)