I want some opinions on my dog's behaviour yesterday when I took her for a walk.  Basically she is an 18 month patterdale, we've only had her for about 6 months and she is in season.  Even though she is only a small dog since she is a hunting breed she will walk for miles.  I took her for a walk yesterday and after 30 mins she lay down on the pavement, she then got up walked a few steps and then lay back down.  When she carried on her legs looked a little shakey and a few minutes later lay down again but on her side.   Afther this she seemed to get a 2nd breather and was walking in her usual way.   Could this be because she was too hot?  I didn't take any water with me (which I will do from now on) because I know it sounds daft but I've only ever walked her in the horrible weather we've had these last 6 months so I never thought to do so.  Or is it because she's in heat?  She does seem to be subdued this week, but she is eating fine and is her usual playful self later in the evening but rather than greeting me in her usual playful way when I come into the house she's staying in her bed. Any opinions as to why she acted like she did last night are appreciated because she did worry me, although she was fine this morning when I took her for a walk then.

I would take her along to the vets for a quick check over just incase she has some sort of infection going on. Better to be safe then sorry.

Debbie

If she's a patterdale she will be black and feel the heat a lot more than other dogs, so that could be a contributing factor.  Also, a lot of bitches seem to go off exercise totally for the first nine days or so of their season - all mine wanted to do was lounge on the sofa and she normally gets 2 hours free running a day.  I think they do often experience a tummy ache, so I don't know about you but I certainly wouldn't appreciate a route march with a pain in my side!  :-)

Thanks, my instincts are that it is to do with her season, but being new to keeping dogs I wasn't sure, she does seem to be lethargic at the minute.  As regards to her coat, what you say is really interesting as I forgot that black absorbs the heat.  I will see how she goes this evening and make sure I take some water with me.

Slightly off topic....you mentioned you are walking her on the pavement, so I take it this is in the street. Is it wise to take an in season bitch out in this area? How would you prevent her being accidentally mated if a dog came along?

Patterdales are only slightly bigger than a jack russell only longer legs.
so I reckon she would scope her up ?
Be bit different if she was a Great Dane :)

> Slightly off topic....you mentioned you are walking her on the pavement, so I take it this is in the street. Is it wise to take an in season bitch out in this area? How would you prevent her being accidentally mated if a dog came along?

There shouldn't be loose dogs in the street it is against the law to have a dog offlead on a public road.  Unless your in an area with a lot of latchkey dogs (fortunately the cost of getting their dogs back when picked up by dog warden keeps my streets clear) then there should e no problem.  Also at least with a  Patterdale you can pick her up if a dog was loose.

Of course an in season bitch should never be walked where dogs are customarily allowed off lead.  It is foolhardy and most inconsiderate to other dog owners who won't be privy to the information until their normally well behaved male goes deaf and heads off into the sunset following your bitch.

I walk my in season bitch on the pavements, but being a small breed I only take her a short way and only about every third day, to keep any exciting smells to a bare minimum. The season could well be making her feel a bit lethargic and a bit funny.

I do walk her on the pavement to get to the fields, but she is kept on a lead at all times, and if I see another dog then I make sure that she is kept by my side.  I don't let her near any other dogs, I do this as a matter of course as she is a friendly excitable dog who loves saying hello to every dog that she sees, and I think it's not fair to other dog owners to have her running and trying to play with their dog.

I do walk her on the pavement to get to the fields

Oooooo kboyle111!  :-(  There have been umpteen postings on the walking of in-season bitches on this forum over the years and there are a variety of opinions I grant, BUT.......although you may keep your little terrier on a lead close by your side in the fields her delicious smells will be wafting through the air for up to TWO MILES and any self-respecting entire male in that vicinity will be hell bent on finding you no matter how many main roads he has to run across or accidents he has to cause.  (I am assuming that other people will run their dogs loose in these fields or vicinity thereof....?  Apologies if wrong.)  Whilst you may be able to pick up your girl, you may have some diffiiculty fending off some of the larger breeds if they catch up with you and dissuading them from following you home.  Please think how you would feel if you caused an accident and/or the death of someone and/or another dog as the result of your actions. 

I have 2 males, one entire and one neutered, the younger entire leaves a lot to be desired on recall and I know this is mostly my fault but he does have a will of his own, and a strong one at that, and I dread to think what would happen if he caught scent of an in season bitch on our walks, there would be no getting him back if he was off lead.  If he was on lead then I imagine I would get pulled over so that he could get to her.  This is one of my worse nightmares with him, main reason for keeping him entire is health reasons so don't want to castrate him.

I always assumed  (albeit wrongly by this post) that bitches in season were kept in or walked very early or very late and definitely not on the pavements. 

Going back to the posters question, I would definitely get her to the vets to rule out any illness.

Good thread from not so long ago here.

Unfortunately people do walk their in season bitches in areas where they know fine well there will be male dogs off lead because they think that their poor bitch couldn't possible miss a few walks and would rather take the risk of a mating taking place presumably! A while ago I met the same woman twice with her offlead sbt. The first time we were within about 30 feet of each other when she shouted out to me "Is your dog male? Mine's in season!" Thanks for letting me know and all but mine would have been with you about 10 minutes ago if he'd fancied a go I then saw her again a few days later. She was stood on the riverbank waving her arms at me telling me that her dog was down in the river and could I keep away! There are usually at least a dozen other off lead dogs on this particular walk that she would have had to manoeuvre her bitch around. Some people are beyond stupidity.

One of the local walks I take my dogs in is extremly busy can be up to 20 dogs easily and when walking with my entire boy we met at least four in season girls. It was very frustrating as my poor boy had to stay on the lead to stop him running after every girl and I had a very sore arm pulling him away!

I've only had her 6 months and this is the first season she has had since we have had her.  I've never owned a dog before so was unaware that I shouldn't be allowed to walk her.  What do you suggest I do?  Any ideas would be appreciated because it's the first I've heard about any of this.  I always assumed that owners of male dogs would be able to keep them under control - I don't mean to be controversial saying this - it was just an assumption I had.

Responsible owners would do their very best to control their dogs but there are also a fair few owners out there who haven't got a clue about controlling their dogs, and then of course there are those owners who have latchkey dogs and are never anywhere in sight of their dog as it roams around.

Instead of walking her you could play games with her and up her training sessions. Mental exercise is a great way of occupying your dog and will also tire her out as well :)

Well it is true to say that all dog owners SHOULD have control of their dogs, male or female. Brainless' point about it being illegal to have a dog offlead in the streets is also true......but unfortunately not every person upholds the law, and not every dog owner is responsible. Certainly if you are taking her to fields there is a high risk of meeting an of lead dog, and it is a rarity to find a dog, even with great training, that can be called off an in season bitch. The desire to mate is extremely strong, and if a large dog came to your bitch, even if you picked her up, you are likely to get flattened by said dog in attempts to get to your bitch. ( imagine something like a mastiff or dane having a go). Every time she wees she will be laying a little trail, and all local dogs will be aware of her presence, and many a dog has escaped from its garden in an attempt to find romance (many breaking limbs in the process, jumping out of windows etc.). In addition, even if dogs are on lead, they tend to find it distressing if the bitch is mid season. 
When push comes to shove, it's your bitch.....and if she gets mated , you will be left with the consequences.....at best a scary experience for your young girl, at worst an unplanned litter.  So although there is no rule about walking an in season bitch ( it is "allowed"), it is best to be aware of the strength of attraction between a  dog and a bitch in season, so that you can decide whether or not the risk is worth taking.
As a matter of personal choice, when my bitch is more than three or four days into her season, she does not get walked in public places, and I take extra care to exercise her in the garden by playing etc.
I would also suggest that you supervise your bitch in the garden when in full season, as bitches can be demons at escaping in order to mate, and dogs can break into your garden for the same reason

I walk my bitch when she is in season, just not where i know there will be dogs running loose ..I go u the busy main street and along the byass ( have a keyboard roblem and have no q r sorry .. And i would have no doubt in my mind if a male came along whether he was big or small that i would ick her u  if i had too to sto a mate ...I was once told to treat an in season bitch normally , or to be a little jolly hockey sticks ,lets get on with this .. so keeing a bitch in season in seems like you are 9unishing the dog really .. I have never had males beating down my doors or fences but then again we do not have many wandering dogs about our town either , so i guess i am lucky ....

Re the point about it being illegal to walk dogs offlead on public roads, I find this interesting because where I live the majority of dogs are offlead on the streets! I have often wondered why people generally carry a lead but don't attach it to the dog! Often I have thought a dog was a stray and then realised there was an owner following a distance behind, but I didn't realise it is against the law.

>but I didn't realise it is against the law.

Yep. it's been illegal since the Road Traffic Act of 1988!

> always assumed that owners of male dogs would be able to keep them under control

That is a little naive, but understandable if you've never owned a testosterone filled male.  Natural instinct takes over in many a normally obedient male.

> I always assumed that owners of male dogs would be able to keep them under control

In the normal way of things that would be true, but as far as a bitch in heat goes all bets are off, as the natural drives will in many/most instances override training.  This goes for your bitch too, you can bet when ready to mate and you had her off lead she could easily ignore your commands.

A funny story I once read was of a Police tracker dog following the trail of a criminal and indicating to the Police a particular house.  when the house was searched it turned out they had an in season bitch on the premises, and the dog had been following that scent rather than the criminals one.

When taking a bitch in season to a place where dogs may be off lead you are presenting them with temptation beyond what many can stand (some inexperienced or super well trained dogs may not react strongly), but you are being very unfair to the male dogs owners as they won't be aware of why their dog is suddenly ignoring commands and running off.

Walking the streets with your bitch on lead where dogs are not allowed off lead, and avoiding walking close to local off lead dog walking spots should b e no problem and the course many entire bitch owners take.  I do this with all mine when I have a bitch in season, even if I left the in season one at home I would still not take the others to the Park as often male dogs will follow them about hopefully because they can smell the in season one on the=m, though this interest is only fleeting, and not enough to cause their owners a problem.

> .. I have never had males beating down my doors or fences but then again we do not have many wandering dogs about our town either

This is my situation too, our dog Wardens have been very efficient in ensuring there are no latchkey dogs around, as it is so expensive to get them back.

In Response to Honeybee

>but I didn't realise it is against the law.

There are notices on a lots of Lampposts around here with one saying what the potential fine is for dogs off lead, and what it is for not picking up fouling, interestingly the fouling fine is twice that of the off lead one.

thanks for all the opinions.  But I see what you mean now, I took her out for a quick wee on the field near our house and there was a male dog going beserk on it's lead to get to Bess, who was going mad in return, the other dog was a dalmation and quite a lot bigger than Bess.  Fortunately his owner was fine when I explained that she was in season but she did struggle to control her dog whilst I was moving Bess quickly away.  It has made me realise what may have happened if the dog was off it's lead. 

Bess started her bleeding stage on Monday how much longer is she likely to be in season for and at what stage will she stop wanting to mate.

I forgot to add that I have to take her for a walk for her to do her business as when we got her from the previous owners they took one look at our garden and said she would escape from there as we have trellice that she could climb over as they said she is good at climbing especially trees.  Also, we have two rabbits which are kept alongside our house and she doesn't know that they exist as she would try and get them since she is a hunting breed.  We do have a chain in the garden for emergencies but don't like to use that and she doesn't do her wee/poo on command so that would mean leaving her chained up for longer than we want.  I am going to get her done before her next season but whilst this one is happening I want to be a responsible dog owner.

i didnt realise it was illegal either? but from the start iv never taken any of my girls out while they were in season not because i thought i couldnt just because id be too worried there were any male dogs around..simple as that really. :)

We do have a chain in the garden for emergencies but don't like to use that and she doesn't do her wee/poo on command so that would mean leaving her chained up for longer than we want

Please don't leave her tethered as by the sound of it it would be quite easy for a dog to enter your garden. My dog has scaled a 6ft trellis out of our garden and thats a 15in high spitz who did it for fun not for the love of a lady LOL You wouldn't see him for dust if that was the case. The bleeding stage lasts for 2-3 weeks. Don't be fooled into thinking shes finished aft 10-15 days as the blood geos a lighter colour as they reach their most receptive time!(this happened to someone I know resulting in 3 pups)

Angela

ah kboyle if this is your first dog and shes a she you won't know just how hard it is to keep an amourous boy under control... the answer is extremely.

besides why should it be the male dogs responsibility? it's owner does not know if a bitch is in season or not. as someone said the pheremones form an in heat bitch can travel 2 miles. if i was walking my boy off lead 2 miles away, no dogs in sight and he suddenly legged it because he smelled your girlies deliciousness would that be my fault? male dog owners cannot be expected to keep their dogs on lead at all times just in case someone is walking an in season bitch. yes its a dog owners responsibility to teach recall but when they smell a bitch they are SOOO not listening to you, the boy bits take over (had fun with this today as one of our girls is in season- trying to make sure they are seperate is fun! not!)

we never walk our bitches in season because it;s dangerous for them- they can obviously get impregnated, could be damaged during a mating, there at more risk of a pyo (we are super scared of this, we lost a girl during surgery when she had a closed pyo so it's the terror for us), i've also heard of bitches injured when dogs started fighting over them and they got caught in the middle.

yes they go stir crazy, yes their a bit miserable after a bit but it's just not worth it.

You don't have to take her for a walk for a wee, just take her in the garden on a lead if your garden isnt secure. Now that you have seen the effect it had on that male dog, I hope that you are not intending to take her out again. In your place I would reconsider your garden arrangements...it seems a shame not to be able to allow your girl to have the run of the garden.....mine love it, and would be going spare if they just had two walks a day and no garden frolics.

> yes its a dog owners responsibility to teach recall but when they smell a bitch they are SOOO not listening to you,

They do go deaf :( My entire dog got out of the house after a bitch (bolted as the door was opened - not left open, just opened to get through), he ran strait out into a busy road and got run-over by a car :( Luckily no permenant damage done to the dog. He was castrated soon after that & now we keep a baby gate inside the front door just to be extra safe - it's a bit like going through an air lock getting out of our house :)

am sorry if this offends anyone but i caint say i agree with chaining a dog up outside..my girls caint get out of my back garden but even if they could i wouldnt chain them up out there..i would put a lead on and walk them round till they went as im sure when a dog has to go it has to go? plus is it not the same as going for a walk to do their wee/poo as it is if you walk them round the garden half a dozen times? is a walk not a walk where ever it is???

Sadly not all dogs will evacuate on lead.  Mine are trained to go on command but that almost always applies to a wee. The big dogs are no problem and some of the small ones but one little one will not go in the garden no matter how long you walk her around, I am lucky I have a separate secure garden for my girls, but take her outside the gate for a few mins on the lead and voila job done.  If this is not accomplished she will come back into the house and perform in the hall - not an option.

Back to the thread, no its never worth taking you bitch out for a walk when in season unless you are only going a short way and you have checked for loose dogs.  Even then you will not see the furry ball hurtling toward you at speed until its up to no good!  Personally I take mine out into the garden except for miss madam who goes 10 yards outside the house and back (or she would explode!)

> Bess started her bleeding stage on Monday how much longer is she likely to be in season for and at what stage will she stop wanting to mate.

It varies with individual bitches and many will mate successfully after the usual 21 days, which is why it is best to keep her away from any male dogs for four Weeks from first blood.

Her season will be over when her vulva returns to a tight non swollen state and everything looks all closed up.  She will never be as small again as before her first season though.

god thats awful, glad he's ok. it's not just that they go deaf, they lose all common sense as well, and do stupid stuff like run into roads! it can really transform their behaviour (in a bad way)

Sorry Minni
I was quoting the OP post. I do not[url=][/url] agree with tethering a dog ever!! I don't use the tethering pegs that so many use when camping! My dogs have a foldable pen for when we're camping.
Thanks
Angela