I have two problems which are sort of connected. I have kept a girl pup from our last litter. She is now 12 weeks old and was always the bolshy out going pup. Absolutely gorgeous though. She is really aggressive towards her mum, nipping her till she yelps. Growling and barking at her a lot of the time. Mum does practise the alpha stuff. Knocking her down, sometimes holding her down but she just seems to get up for more and it goes on and on. Sometimes mum just jumps up onto my knee to get out of the way. Other times, they do play together "normally", tearing around the garden having loads of fun and they sleep together at night although mum growls loudly if puppy disturbs her when she is not ready to get up.
This comes on to the second problem. Obviously pup has more meals per day than the older dogs (I have two) My older two never eat breakfast or lunch but now, when I put food down for puppy for breakfast(puppy food of course) they want to eat it too. I have tried to separate them but they get very agitated when they cant get in to the pup and the pup stops eating to try to get back to them. Also, feeding her and not them seems to me to be instilling the alpha thing on the pup. Being fed first sort of thing. At the evening meal, the pup tries to eat the older dog's food and visa versa. Obviously the pup needs the nutrition from the puppy food and the older dogs really should stay with their appropriate food. What a mess!!! I do hope you are following this. Think I will have to go and lie down.
What I really want to know is, should I help my girl with the dominance thing over the pup and will feeding the pup first or separately make her think she is the dominant one? Phew!!! By the way, they are Tibetan Terriers.

As the pup is 12 weeks old it is time that the dam was able to get away from the pup when she needs to. so a low board in the door that the adults can jump and the pup cant should mean the problem with the dam stops. As to the food I would assert yourself and shut the door between the pup feeding and the others tell them to be quiet and mean it.

Make sure you give the mum plenty of time away from the pup - separate walks, separate playtimes etc. When you feed the pup, give the mum (and other dogs) a small portion of their daily ration in their bowls (while keeping the pup away) then give the pup her food in another room.

Hi,

Well you know yourself from raising the litter that your pup generally played like this with her litter mates. The Dam watches over, washes and cleans her pups but does not really play too much with them apart from allowing them to pounce all over her. The Dam really isn't her pups playmate the siblings were.  Now they are gone, the pup knows no different, wants to tug, drag, pull and nip as she would have done with her siblings. So poor mum has to tolerate her youngsters play when normally she wouldn't. I'm sure she will tell the pup off it she gets too much but......

As already said, let your bitch have plenty of escape time, begin building your own special bond with the pup, play with her to release your bitch from having to do it so much, and segregate pup when she gets too much.

As for meal times, how did you feed the litter?  I've always had to seperate my bitch from her pups at feed time as she would happily scoff down all of their food, only choosing to leave chicken wings or raw meat in their whelping den, anything else was hers as far as she was concerned. So I would suggest if the weather is nice feeding your pup outside, as pups usually toilet straight afterwards she will already be in the garden so it would be a plus.  If not put up a gate across your kitchen so that when pup feeds she is not disturbed if the others put her off, place a towel or cover over the gate to stop her having sight of them, and them her.

Do the same when feeding your adult dogs, don't allow the pup in the kitchen.

All these teething problems sort out, you will soon get into a routine, just take over now as mum to the pup as much as you can. :-)

Re feeding I simply stand in the middle of the kitchen and do not allow anyone to approach anyone Else's dish.  If pup wander sit is returned to it's own dish.  When pup is fed the others simply have to ignore it, as they know they aren't going to get anything until their own feeding time.

As for making the pup think she is alpha because she is fed more often this is incorrect and in the pack the pups will always get fed first and will bug all the adults to regurgitate food for them.  It is only once they have no longer got puppy license and become semi adult low ranking pack members that this stops.

I do as you are suggesting but then not all breeds are the same as ours, I find a stare will return an adult to 4 foot away from a pups dish and I always feed them within a couple of feet of each other when adult, never had a problem but know some people do. It is however a case of deciding what it is that you want and insisting that is what happens.

We had two pups that ate well together then I noticed that the older (by 8 weeks)  will not eat if the other dog is around. the younger dog just stares at him and he will walk away from his food. So, I let one eat in the kitchen and the younger dog outside the kitchen door, so they can't see each other. No problem, no problem having treats together just the main meal.

That is right Whistler we adapt to suit our own conditions, I once had a bitch who would not eat till the others had finished because she was a trouble maker, it was not just at feeding time she caused trouble. I put her in the porch with the oldest bitch that she would not have dared have a go at. It only took one day because the elder bitch pushed her out the way and ate the youngster's food, after that I had no more problem with the feeding. However, not everyone has a "Nina" at hand to sort the puppies manners.

i kept a pup from my last litter too, and while she was used to feeding with her littermates, i started feeding them seperatley just before they left, i have 6 adults, none of which would tolerate an investigation into their bowl at dinner time, so daizy is fed seperatley to them for now, i will gradually introduce her to eating in with the others when she is a bit bigger and knows what her own bowl is there for! i think its safer for her and easier on my older lot!
with regards to play, i work in the afternoons, but im lucky as it only means she is on her own for a couple of hours max, but during this time i have a crate set up for her bed with her toys, then i have a pen surrounding that so she has a play area that is safe aswell, PLUS the added bonus, she can't nag at mum! 
Hope that helps a little?!

i know its easier to keep mum and pup in together, i did this with the bitch i kept from my litter last yr, and i would never do it again, with the pup ive kept this time around i seperated them as soon as the other pups left

> i know its easier to keep mum and pup in together, i did this with the bitch i kept from my litter last yr, and i would never do it again, with the pup ive kept this time around i seperated them as soon as the other pups left

I have never seperated any of my dogs from one antoehr except for very yougn pups and their dam from the rest of the pack until their eyes are open, and enabled the adults to get/keep away from pups as a litter. 

Once down to the last two or three pups, or 10 weeks (whichever comes first) all the dogs are kept together at all times.  If Mum doesn't keep youngest in line grandma or great grandma will soon help teach them manners.

They are a family and part of mine.

Ditto that Barbara - my pup has had quite a few shake downs at mealtimes LOL, aint stopped him trying his best to scoff his down quickly and sneak into mum or sister's bowls!

IMO being with the other dogs teaches them better canine manners than we can - pups need individual attention too obviously but as you say "they are a family and part of mine" and I prefer to start as I mean to go on, living as one  :)

they spend alot of time together, i just dont let them to sleep together at night and they dont share a crate when im out

Do you know. This site is absolutely fab. I have stressed so much about this problem but I feel you are all so close and so knowing. I think I can take something from each of you and would thank you very much for taking the time to reply. Its funny, I think we all have our different expertise. I know I can look after my girl while she is pregnant, am fully able to be confident during the whelping and send lovely pups off to their new owners but there is always some little thing that requires help from others who probably have expertise in other things. Maybe one day I will have it all!!!!!!

PS Why cant I access this board when I sign into Champdogs in the normal way?? I can never find it, only when I put the question in google do I come up with this forum?????

>Why cant I access this board when I sign into Champdogs in the normal way??

Try putting:
http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk
in the browser bar. :-) It should work, then you can save it to your favourites. :-)

Thank-you. I would like to investigate this thing further. Just thought the pup might be challenging mum as to her position in the pack. Is this not the case? I have two adults. Mum who I consider to be the alpha girl as the second one, who had problems when she came to me, is extremely quiet and submissive.I have gradually taught her that playing can be fun and not to want to sit in the corner with her head down all the time. She even shows her teeth and cowers when spoken too although this, again, is improving with time. She actually started a playtime with the other two yesterday which made me cry (with joy of course).
The thing is, puppy will attempt to play with her but when she approaches her (the quiet one) she, the pup, is wagging her tail. She seems to be more light hearted about it. When the pup approaches mum to play, there is no wagging at all, just growls and barks. I wondered if the pup can sense that the quiet girl is the submissive one and that she knows she does not have to be aggressive with her? Am I going down the wrong road. Do pups of 12 weeks try to stamp their mark on the pack? Gosh, this is so interesting. Cant wait to hear what you say????

Thank you for that!!

> Do pups of 12 weeks try to stamp their mark on the pack?

Definitely not - thankfully :)

My newest addition has been the most bolshy by far to date of several of the same breed but he's learning LOL.  He appears to try and "tell off" the adults (one of which is mum) and gets away with only so much then is floored and reminded that he's stretching the boundaries just TOO far!  Young pups make a heck of a noise when told off by adults but it's a rare event in the average doggy household for there to have been any form of injury caused (unless allowing very large and/or heavy breed dogs to interact too much with a very much smaller or lighter weight breed).

Mine screamed for the western hemisphere but never been a mark on him and he's not put off too much as within a few seconds he's either gone off to investigate something new or won the adults round to his wicked ways and resumed play :)

He approaches each of the adults differently and this is because he's learning how best to get his preferred reaction from each - if too OTT mum will tell him off but if less so he'll fail to raise interest from his older sister :-D  Even very young pups quite quickly learn to read other canine's body language and even when they make a few mistakes, well rounded, "normal" adults don't make them pay through the nose for it but keep them in check which is all to the greater good when interacting with new and unknown dogs further down the line.

HTH, Teri

Ah, I think I understand more now. Thank-you. To be honest I think I worry more about the pain the pup inflicts on her mum than the other way around. Mum does knock her down, constantly but the little blighter seems to have so much bolsh (new word lol) in her that she comes back for more and more. They do have episodes of "normal" play. Do I let them get on with the constant barrage from the pup. Should I keep out of it or intervene if mum seems to be flagging?

> IMO being with the other dogs teaches them better canine manners than we can - pups need individual attention too obviously but as you say "they are a family and part of mine" and I prefer to start as I mean to go on, living as one

couldn't agree more teri...though they get the bad habits to...my boy taught our litter to dig :( garden looked like it had been shelled