I took my girl for an ultrasound (sheep scanner) yesterday, day 36 and am rather confused by events so I am sure someone with lots more experience can give me some assurance.

Even though I had an appointment he stated that he was in a bit of a rush and he certainly was. He asked me to put her in a 'stand' and as she thinks everyone is going to 'tummy tickle' her she flopped onto her back so whilst I am telling her to stop mucking about and stand, as she started to get up he put the probe onto her whilst she was still raising her back legs (a second or two) so she was still in a crouch position and before she fully stood up said 'no puppies'. I said WHAT! He said look at the screen, touched her again with the probe for another second and said ' no puppies'.

Now obviously he is experienced but having seen on internet sites actual video clips of scans I can't understand why there was no 'moving image' ie white noise, shadows, anything at all. All there was to show was a completely still, black arch.

He went on to say that looking at her he would have thought that she was pregnant and feeling her underside he would have thought the same and was surprised to find no puppies. He then went onto say that he had just come back from a scanning of 8 weeks and left a confused and devistated owner after telling her no puppies.

Please, if anyone can explain the procedure usually taken, time etc, what you would normally expect to see on the screen, especially if you have witnessed a scan with no puppies it would be great. I would have expected him to have taken a while to move the probe about into different positions/areas.

This is her first mating and on her previous seasons has shown no evidence of false pregnancy so it is not like her to act or look like she is. I can of course take her to my vet and pay another £25 but I thought that sheep scanner would be the better option or just wait it out.

If anyone could give an opinon as to wether the 'scanning' was or was not carried out correctly,or how they are normally carried out,  I will make my decision to ask him to re-do her and take more time as I feel a bit 'short changed' paying £25 for a few minutes of his time from arriving to departing.

Even if there wasn't any pups, you would still see movement, ie. the bitch breathing, intestines etc.  Sounds very strange

Where did you get his number from?   Sounds a bit dodgy to me, why the rush??   Was the equipment working properly?  If he was an experienced sheep scanner then he should know if the equipment isn't working correctly from the screen surely?

Sheep scanner or sheep scammer?  Hmmmmm   :(

> Where did you get his number from?  

Of one of the postings on this board. Poster has used him before 3 times ok and I am sure he was for her.

He was in a rush apparently something to do with 'sheep'. In respect of the lady who's dog he had scanned earlier that morning, the scanning had taken place in 'pub car park' eek!

After reading a couple of websites it does indicate that the 2 dimensional image should be grainy grey and white, fluids black, gas, internal structures etc show up different, grey, white, black etc. Dog better on her back, shaved and cleaned before applying gel otherwise air gets trapped between hair and abdomen not allowing image.

My girl is quite hairy, can't see even her back teats through her hair. She was happer on her back but he said no she needs to stand. As i say she was 'sqatting', me wonders if he aimed it at full bladder giving a dark black image?

Agree with others ,the sheep scanner I use usually takes time to scan and counts pups even if they are high up I always see more going on than the puppies I know what the puppies look like now in around the other organs.So if I were you I would get another scanner.

I don't know why people don't just go to the Vets ;-)   Your vet is qualified and also insured.

I have to drop any bitch off at the vet in the morning for a scan as they like to take their time. I get her back a couple hours later.  £25..  wouldn't be shopping around to save a few £.  :-)

Yes i quite agree, although my vets do it there and then in front of me and they dont rush it, they always take their time and also give me a print out. I think it costs around £30 which i pay no questions.

> £25..  wouldn't be shopping around to save a few £.  :-)

Hi, wasn't shopping around to save a few pounds. I paid £25, exactly the same. I never count the cost if an animal needs treating.

My vet is a '1 man practice' and unusually for him is away and refering emergencies (of which pregnancy diagnosis is not an emergency) to another practice which I refuse to use as they had great difficulty in diagnosing a broken leg in one of my puppies telling me that she 'was a drama queen' and didn't need an xray. So I took her to my current vet who immediately xrayed her. She needed a specialist orthopaedic surgeon to do the delicate pinning. And yes she is still a 'drama queen' but her leg aint broke anymore!

I wasn't going to bother as surely time will tell anyway. Just going off forum advice that sheep scanners are far more experienced and reliable, obviously not!

I've never had a bitch ultrasounded to see if she's pregnant.   My vet palpates them & says yes or no.   Then I just let nature take it's course on how many pop out 4.5 weeks later!   

I have had 2 scans recently for my bitch - both confirmed negative. The first was my vet who took quite a while to scan and did move the probe up and down the center of her tummy, he showed me her baldder and you could clearly see the intestines working (peristalsis movement). My girl was on her back, which she didnt like, but no shaving invloved. cost £35 (reduced rate as couldn't guarantee 100%).
The screen is only still if they freeze the picture to look at things for longer.
The second scan (done because i was having trouble accepting no puppies!!) was by a lovely lady that scans a lot. My girl remained standing, no shaving invloved and again time was taken to check for pups. cost £30

Does sound a very quick scan indeed.

Has your girl got any of the clear mucousy discharge which is often a very good sign of pregnancy?

I only get mine done if at 6 weeks they are not showing to find out if there is one or more from a bitch management point of view.   If only one I would prepare myself for a c-section and I wouldn't increase her food in the last few days at all.  If more than one pup I know I can generally safely increase the food a little in the last week to assist her with her puppies growth.  The numbers on the ultrasound have no interest to me otherwise as they guarantee nothing.   Being honestly my favorite litter qty in my breed is 3.

Hi if its any help the guy i use ( a sheep scanner)  only needs a a minute  to say if shes in whelp or not. hes very thorough and never wrong.

i used a sheep scanner on my girl last year and my other girl this year, both times he put some of the liquid parafin on them 1st to confirm if in whelp then he put a little more on and counted how many, he is very experienced and its all over in a min or so .. only thing im unsure of last year he said 4 pups she had 5, this time he said 6 pups there was just the 4,

just to add i took my 2nd girl who had our most recent litter 4 weeks ago to get checked over as she had a discharge which had some brown stringy colour to it, so better safe than sorry booked her into my vets he scanned her too, his conclusion was it doesnt look good he couldnt see any indication of pups no heart beats or bone calcification, she was nearly 5 weeks since mating at this time, he suggested i take her to the vet school to get scanned there, better equipment etc took her there, they said all was well she just wasnt as far on as 1st thought they suggested she was a week less, so this put her to 4 weeks gone instead of the 5, i started getting organised for the whelping on the Tuesday which was 2 days before her date we 1st thought before vets stepped in, she started digging and nesting on the Wednesday and had her pups on the Thursday! the day we 1st thought from her 1st mating, so both vets were wrong,even though the sheep scanner was wrong with the numbers he did say she was 4 weeks gone when he scanned her,my vet commented when i took her for her check up after whelping the mix up was because pups were so big thats why they were confused ?  i think next time i will stick to letting nature taking its course lol alls well that ends well any way i was organised thankfully !

let us know how you get on with your girl xx

I have just got back from having my girl done.  She is 31 days, she did her standing up and had confirmed pregnancy within about 15 seconds, she then spent about another 4 or 5 minutes showing me the foetuses and counting them (there were 4).  It was most definitely not a blank screen though, there was lots to look at, however I wouldn't have known what I was looking at if she hadn't been telling me.  

When you talk about a sheep scanner is that a describing a particular type of scanner or the person that does them?  Sorry if that sounds a bit dense, but it is the first time I have had one scanned.  The lady that did mine was in the middle of lambing, so she definitely new what she was doing.

In response to Blue, "I don't know why people don't just go to the Vets"

because not all vets have scanners and a lot of us have found that people who specialise in scanning are often much better at interpretting the image on the screen than a vet is :)

The last time that I had one of my girls scanned, I'm convinced that I had more idea of what the screen was showing than the vet did :0

In my experience, vets are not very good at doing scans.  On all three occassions when I have had a bitch in season, two different vets told me that the bitches had no puppies.  All three went on to deliver litters of 5/6 pups.  This is why many people don't go to the vet but elsewhere.  On the last occassion I had a litter, vet told me that he felt she wasn't in pup, then went to another one (as I was 1000% sure) and he told me the same thing.  I had her scanned again by a student vet who told me that she was in pup but that was at over 7 weeks gone.  Also they never get numbers right.  My mentor always told me that if the vet counts 3 pups, then always add 1 or 2.  Vet's or rather very few vets are experts in scans.

Other than detecting singletons I have never expected a scan to show numbers.  things they can later absorb some loose some at birth etc, so it isn't really relevant, other than the risk of problems with one large singleton.

I never bother with scans anymore as my vet is very good at palpation, and has never been wrong.

I like to confirm a bitch is in whelp so that I know if I need to change foods, not miss show entries if they are not, and most importantly can let my waiting list know what is what, and if a bitch isn't then can get them on other breeders waiting lists in a timely fashion so they don't miss out on getting a puppy.

Although I am not always pro some vets I have to on this occasion completely disagree with your thinking spugsy .

Most vets when purchasing scanners will have went though training on the use of it,  their scanning equipment is all likely far greater quality that the " sheep scanner".  I think perhaps it is technique that lets people down.

I have used 3 vets over the last 20 years. All local to me. None every misdiagnosed a pregnancy through scanning all did a very professional scan.      Perhaps a combination of scanning them too early, inexperience on the scanners part. Who knows but as person with a reasonable amount of common sense the thought that the sheep scanner should be better than a trained vet doesn't and will never wash :-) 

Scans in my opinion are not supposed to be used for counting puppies, except to ascertaining there is more than one whelp or none.

I think your lack of satisfaction is more a unfortunate mix of inexperience perhaps in the one area but certainly not UK wide.

I have previously had my bitches scanned and the results were not that good.  However, last year when I had mated a bitch who was extremely hard to get in whelp, I did use my own vet who had just purchased a new scanner.  The pictures were very clear and they were able to tell me there were 'lots' in there!  They were right - she had 9!  I am having another litter shortly and haven't bothered with a scan this time as it was obvious - even at 4 weeks that she is in whelp - different bitch & 1st litter.

£25? £30? Blimey! Its £60 at our vets!

Mine cost £20 .  Not that it was even a consideration, I would have happily paid £65 but was even happier to pay £20. :)

I had mine scanned twice as first scan was at 28 days and could 99% tell she was but wanted to confirm it a week later (this one was free). Only cost £18. It took about 3 mins first time and my girl was in standing position as she said it's better to see that way. 2nd scan was alot quicker as pups were much easier to see, little black blobs with tiny white bones of pups inside.

scan  costs £ 20 where i go  have had him say  5  maybe  6  and had 6 as i've said previously never wrong last time i used him he said 6 in around a minute as was  correct..  when i refer to sheep scanner,  mean  a guy that  scans  sheep for a living.

i paid £35 at my vets but would of paid more! to find out yes or no..as it happend it was yes and she shaved her tummy lay her on her side and told me shes could se two but by no means does that mean there will only be two? really dont mind how many aslong as shes ok but i was just very happy to kow for def!!

How much do these 'sheep scanners' charge farmers, bet it's not £20 per sheep!

Missie
I said blimey too!  It's £62 at my vets!

I prefer to do the Relaxin blood test at 23 - 28 days .. this hormone only shows if the bitch is in whelp as it is produced by placenta. You don't know how many pups but then scans are not that accurate either !!   Cost is about the same as a scan and result is usally avaliable within 15- 20mins.

K

> I prefer to do the Relaxin blood test

I understand you can get a lot of false results, and none of my local Vets bother with ti.

Nor mine Barbara.

I find it odd people some people seem to have so much problems with scans. I can honestly say I have had no problem whatsoever.  

People in general need to learn they are not really for puppy counting just a confirmation of whelps.    My vet would never give a number just,  "more than 1 or two"  type comment which is all I need to know.

i need you guys vets, both of mine charge £82 + £85 for scanning.

i use a sheep scanner who comes highly recomended for £20.

Will let you know after friday what i can see hun lol.

from the 3 scans my girl had .....the sheep scanner charged £15 vets charged £40 & vet college charged £69

Why did you have 3?

did they all give the same result?

Just curious

I'd say he ripped you off. Even if he was in a hurry he should have given you enough time for a thorough scan. Sounds like a bit of a cowboy to me!

My vet charges £50 (more than most quoted on here, interesting!) and takes about 15-20mins of his time to examine her, talk to you about the pregnancy, her diet, what the pups will be fed, have we got homes lined up etc and a bit of light banter.
He usually can tell straight away if theres any pups and after a few more minutes going backwards and forwards, how many to expect.

I think I'd rather trust a vet, or at least if using a sheep scanner find one from word of mouth recommendations.