Hi guys

A little bit of advice please, i live next to miles of farmland where i exercise my dogs twice a day and have done for the last 4 years, the land has recently been sold to a new farmer whom i approached and asked if it would be ok if i carried on exercising my dogs on his land and he said he was quite happy for me to do this as long as when the sheep were around (in adjacent field seperated by wire fencing) that my boys (3 gsd's) did not scare them. Obviously as the sheep come every spring i spent a great deal of time desensitizing the boys to the sheep and they do not bat an eyelid when they see them, however my new bitch (nearly 7 mths gsd) has not seen sheep before and although she is very solid and not interested in them she does give what i can only describe as an 'introductory' bark when we enter the field, what i mean is that as soon as we get on the field she barks twice and then carries on her walk and no more noise, so what i am wondering is that if this bark that she does could be deemed as her scaring the sheep???

Obviously i am aware of the law and the farmers rights if she were scaring the sheep but i just want to make sure that what she is doing will not cause any harm, by the way she does this bark everywhere she goes not just to the fields.

Any advice would be great as i am worried ;-)

How do the sheep react to her bark?

Well usually they do nothing but this morning one lamb was particularly close to the fence and although it did not run away scared it did kind of trot away if you know what i mean ;-)

I don't think their owner would object to that at all. :-)

Phew, thank you i have been so worried since i got home and you have put my mind at ease.

Any farmer that is ok for you to walk dogs on his land is a very reasonable person. They often own one or more dogs themselves which will bark on and off for most of the day so the farmer knows this is normal dog behaviour. The only time you need to be extra cautious not to scare the sheep is just before they're going to lamb as the silly things might abort, other than that I think the farmer would only be worried if you caused a stampede. What you've described wouldn't worry him at all :)

obv keep her on a lead

My uncle farms sheep and he is very reasonable about dogs because he's a real dog lover. However someone had a dog who went and chased his sheep and the problem was although none of te sheep came to any harm they did develop a fear of dogs which is no good when you rely on dogs to move the sheep around.  So he had to insist no dog came within sight of the sheep even in the next field in case the dogs barked or ran to the fence so that the sheep could rebild their confidence.

So sometimes there are reasons to keep well away as well as lambing times of course.. But the farmer would tell you when he gave his permission. Normaly the sheep are fine and getting used to seeing dogs who cause them no harm in theory is good for them. And if you are there you are helping the farmer police his fields against anyone less responsible.

What happens if a dog actually kills a sheep?  Just wondering, as someone is walking a dog round here which she says is a GSD X Husky X Wolf - it looks like a huge GSD with a husky tail.  Anyway, it never looks friendly, so I stay well away, but I think it's wrong that she can still walk round with it off the lead - when it killed a sheep a few weeks ago - how do I know it's not going to go for one of my dogs or one of the toddlers I look after, at the very least you'd think she would keep it on lead.

I think it's wrong that she can still walk round with it off the lead - when it killed a sheep a few weeks ago

This sounds really scary. If this dog really killed a sheep, it must be one heck of a beast - i'd be scared of it, myself, let alone for my dog or child. Surely it must be illegal for it to be off-lead, if it is so dangerous and out of control?

Well, all I know is that one of my neighbours said that she (the owner of dog) is in big trouble, and that was at least 3 weeks ago - but the dog is still being walked around.  Also, the owner is a really small woman - can't see she'd even be able to hold this big dog if it decided to go for something!

I think here we have to differentiate between a dog going after livestock (pry) and the likelihood it would be a danger to people.

Of course if it has killed sheep it should not be off lead anywhere could get to them.

It is very improbable that there is any wolf in that crossbreed, all such claims have invariably been found to be tall tales to sell pups bred by irresponsible people.  It is more likely to be a cross between some sled dog breed/s and GSD.

Anyone who keeps Wolves needs a wild animal license and a Wolf hybrid would come under the same rules, having to be kept licensed and contained.  No person who keeps wolves is going to let someone mate their bitches to them or allow a dog to breed with their females.

we have to differentiate between a dog going after livestock (pry) and the likelihood it would be a danger to people.

I agree that any dog may decide to chase sheep, and would be in BIG trouble if it did (that's why i always keep mine on a lead anywhere near sheep, I think he could decide to chase, and i'm not confident he'd recall immediately, but he would come back after a couple of minutes - just too long to risk scaring the sheep and annoying the farmer, not long enough to actually kill the sheep), but to actually kill a sheep it would have to be a pretty big vicious dog, wouldn't it? I always imagine dogs to be capable of killing a large animal if they are hunting as a pack, but i would have thought an individual dog would normally just be able to kill a rabbit or similar size prey on its own.
To actually kill a sheep this must be a very big, and agressive animal, surely? In which case, I would be concerned for anything it might do when off lead and out of the owner's control, as it seems to be.

Sheep die very easily and once down wouldn't take a lot to kill one.

I know when I was training my brothers GSD's we used to go in the fields with cows and calves (not quite sheep :-) ) and the youngest as a pup when he first saw the cows barked at them, I knew he was barking because they were big and he was not sure as to whether they were a threat or not, so I did not allow him to run free, I would lead him, which gave him the security of me being in-charge, and would just repeat Walk On! He gave a bark the first time we did it, but no where near as badly if he had been off lead, the second time a very small single bark, the third a very quiet growl, fourth day nothing, he was then allowed off lead to walk with the other GSD.

Also seeing that the elder GSD ignored the cows helped a lot there was no cajooling each other.

Now this method will probably help with the barking, but as we know sheep are quite a bit smaller than cows :-D So you need very much to make sure that the younger one does not wish to chase, hopefully he will take his lead from the others.  Otherwise keep him on a long line once the barking at the sheep has stopped.

Yes, Sunbeams,  her dog should be on a lead.

Some dogs killed sheep here a couple of years back. And at the same time two dogs I know went missing in that area. When the eventually were found the owners said they had been hunting rabbits. Well put two and two together...

anyway after that both dogs started attacking other dogs, especially small dogs but they chased and attacked anything really. The dogs were seen by the vet to see what was ip with them and the vets told the ownets from now on because they were now in hunting mode  to muzzle the dogs.  And yes I do think these could chase and attack a child if they ran in a way that arroused the prey drive in these dogs. Evd of the days these were dogs who were not under the control of their owners in any shape or form.  Now this has changed and with training the dogs are able to be walked off lead without a muzzle and will respond well to the owners.

And the farmers gained permission to shoot any dog on sight who entered their sheep fields and warnings of their intentions to do so were placed on entrances to the fields and on the local public reservations.

Well, not much I can do about it if no order has been made against her - at least so far!  I will just watch out and keep my distance!

> but to actually kill a sheep it would have to be a pretty big vicious dog, wouldn't it? I always imagine dogs to be capable of killing a large animal if they are hunting as a pack, but i would have thought an individual dog would normally just be able to kill a rabbit or similar size prey on its own.

Your average moggy is capeable of killing a rabbit on it's own, most dogs are much bigger & stronger than cats.  A dog doesn't need to be large or vicious to kill a sheep, just have a high prey drive. Afterall most of us eat meat and don't consider ourself vicious for killing our food - a dog has no moral stand point and doesn't need to be mentally unstable to kill a sheep.

I was just surprised that it would be capable of it, not suggesting that it is vicious to eat meat,  we would have a gun or a knife to kill with. I would have thought that a sheep, being about the same size as a dog would be too big to be caught and killed by a single dog, i had thought it would need to be chased around and rounded up and tired out by a pack before one would be able to bring it down and maybe others would also need to be involved in the actual killing too. I would expect a dog to want to chase it though, just because it runs! I have now been put right by Brainless explaining that sheep die very easily, though.

>i had thought it would need to be chased around and rounded up and tired out by a pack before one would be able to bring it down and maybe others would also need to be involved in the actual killing too.

No, a sheep could easily be killed by a single dog of about labrador size. Very easy to bring down, and once down they find it quite hard to get up again if they have a big fleece.

I am reading a book called "The Mammoth Book of Dogs a collection of stories, verse & prose".  It is quiet a shocking read one story of a Captain Fritz- Barnard his  "little bitch" [does not say the weight of this dog] only him saying that she killed a fox hound at 4 months old and amongst her trophies were a pony and a pig . His words not mine. This was in 1921 but just goes to show that any dog whatever size is capable of being a killer if allowed.

> but to actually kill a sheep it would have to be a pretty big vicious dog

i know someone who;s border terrier killed a sheep (it was this persons sheep)

The farmer at the side of me shot a dog last year.......................this lady was walking 2 dogs down our coutry lane both off the lead. When they came round the corner they noticed the field with the sheep and new lambs. Both dogs got under the fence. The lady was screaming and screaming but only one came back. She ran home with the smaller dog to get her husband to come and get the dog from the field before it killed anything.

But before he returned the farmer had come out of his house, seen this dog running round after the lambs and sheep, gone and got his gun and because no adult was there to retrieve the GSD.... shot him. The police were called and when the husband returned in the car the dog was dead. The police said that the farmer was allowed to shoot any dog worrying his sheep and his wife should have had the dogs under control. The police officer decided to to press charges on the dog owner. (Dangerous Dogs Act)

I watched the husband carry his dead dog to the car.....I was so upset. I spoke t te farmer and one sheep had 2 dead lambs. Very sorry tale. The farmer said that if the lady had fastened up the smaller dog and gone into the field to try and catch the GSD he may not have shot it. Because there was no one there trying to stop it he was not prepared to approach a strange rampaging dog.

what a sad story, for all concerned.

Zak got hold of a sheep when he was about 7 months old. Yes, it was our fault, he was off the lead, he had quite a good recall. However, we walked along a path & he went through a stile, ahead of us, where the field fell away down a steep drop.I have walked that way many, many times, there had never been sheep there before & there were no signs. They were just through the stile. Zak took off & there was no way we could stop him. We were absolutely terrified that he would be shot. He cornered one sheep & had hold of it. Luckily for us it remained standing & was extremely woolly. He held onto it until we reached him. It was a lesson that we have never, ever forgot. On another occasion we were on the Yorkshire Moors. The sheep were approx a mile away. Out of the corner of her eye, Tilly saw them running in the distance. They were literally dots on the horizon. She took off on this occasion & completely 'switched off' to our calls. I don't even think that she knew they were sheep. She was just chasing a moving target. Eventually she had to stop, the heather was too thick for her to get through. We spent a long 30 mins running after her. Again, we were so lucky, I never, ever take a chance now. We have chickens & goats at home & she never ever chases them, but a dogs instinct is very strong & no dog can be trusted 100%. I scan the horizon on my walks & never relax until I know the coast is completely clear, I also think myself very lucky that there were no farmers around with a gun.