Hello I am new to the boards,  I have a new puppy dalmatian, 9 weeks,  we lost our beautiful old dalmatian last year, who I have to admit spent 14 years in or on our bed!
We knew we didn't want a repeat of that again, so after reading all the books and placing her in her new puppy pen (in the kitchen ) at night, she screams the house down, 1st night not too bad, second night, complete with howling, I made the mistake of going down at around 3 and slept with her on the floor, last night, thinking must persevere and leave her to scream it out, but at around 2 in the morning, I cracked, we stupidly worry what the neighbours are thinking and went down and comforted her twice in the night, can anyone tell me is this right to just let a brand new pup get in that state at night, are we doing things wrong, should I place her upstairs in aother room, nearer to us ?????Any advice would be lovely and help two knackered new parents.

Hi lotties14,

welcome to the forum :)

You'll find if you do a quick search on here (located top of page, 4th along) that this topic comes up again and again.  HERE is a link to a similar topic which you may find useful and which several members seem to have participated in.

Personally I do not agree with leaving pups alone and screaming overnight - better IMO and IME to have them brought into the bedroom with you in a bed/box/crate and regularly toiletted throughout the night.  If having the pup in your bedroom is impractical then temporarily sleeping in the room the pup will occupy is the next best thing :) 

If your puppy is warm, clean and dry and comforted by your closeness throughout the early nights in her new home, IMO she will settle and bond with you more readily and it will also speed up the toilet training issues too :)

Anyway, read the link - hopefully you'll get the gist of what's best from there and doubtless several others will show up if you use the search facilty.
Best wishes, Teri

I would stick to keeping her in the kitchen. :)

I have had pups and always advise my friends and family to be patient when pup comes home for the first time.
I in the passed have mentioned to my neighbours that I have a new pup and it might be a bit noisey for the first couple of nights, then at least they know you are not hurting the pup!!
I like to leave a little light on in the kitchen, and put a warm hot water bottle under the pups blankets to make her feel cosy, don't make a big fuss of her before you go to bed, place her in the cage after she has been to toilet and you could even leave a radio on very quietly for her.
I know it is difficult to ignore the crys we have all been there! but if you keep going down when she does it then she will learn, 'oh I cry and mum comes down to comfort me!' it does sound harsh but it does work if you leave her then after a couple of 'loud' nights she will soon realse she has not been left forever and in fact when its bedtime that means 'sleep!

If you really need to go down and check on her, I would advise not to talk to her or even look at her in the eye, just let her outside for a wee and then put her back in the crate/bed and go straight up to bed, she will then learn that crying will mean going outside and then bed.
I hope this is clear for you, I am no good at writing things of what I am trying to explain! xx

Another way with pups that get distressed and you don't want to do the taking upstairs bit is to come down and as said not talk or play with them just take outside for a wee.  then come back in and put the kettle on, make a cup of tea, all the time ignoring her until she is settled again and then leave the room.

This way pup realises that you are there if needed or frightened, but that also nothing exciting happens when you are there at night.

It is a middle course between the two approaches.  Probavly a bit more tiring than ahving to sleep next to them or taking them up with you, or maybe not.

Hello Lotties14, we have a 12 week old Whippet pup and the week before we brought him home our breeder asked for a towel or jumper that smelled of us (!!) and she put it in with Duffy, so that we he came home to us, it was less strange for him.  I know that is no use now (doh!) however, could you put something that smells of you in the crate/pen with your pup (like the jumper or Tshirt you have been wearing all day so has lots of 'you' on it (sorry, horrible description!!!)) which may help.  I could be barking up the wrong tree here, but can only say that Duffy has been great in the night, in fact he only cried for 10 mins the first night, other than that he is quiet all night. I am still tired though, cos I wake up and listen in case he is crying!!!!
I am sure there is lots of more professional advice than mine, I am new to all this, but just thought I would add my bit to the mix!!! Hope you dont mind!

Hello and welcome to the board. I can only relay the experience I've had with my two dogs but neither of them ever cried as pups. I'm with Teri on this one. I'd rather look after my pups when they're very small and feeling vulnerable and teach them to be more independant when they're a little older and more confident. I build a little pen in my bedroom right next to me for the first couple weeks. My experience has been that the open top and the proximity to me has made them feel safe and secure. Neither cried a second even on their first night. My dogs do sleep in my bedroom as that is what I like. But it would be very easy for me to teach them to sleep anywhere in the house now that they're older (1 YO and 3YO). Both are fine being left or being isolated from me when necessary as they're very secure and confident dogs. There's an article by Turid Rugaas here that might be of interest.

I don't think you're stupid to worry about what state your pup is in or about bothering the neighbours. I would worry about both myself. Good luck with your little Dal.

I would also stick with keeping in her the kitchen, but as you can see from the advice given, everybody has thier own way of doing things :)

Whatever you decide to do, being consistent is the key to it working.

Good luck with your puppy :)

With my first pup 5 years ago I tried the leaving in the kitchen and cracked very quickly and he ended up coming upstairs in the bedroom with us.  Never heard a peep out of him from then on - 5 years later he sleeps downstairs out of choice.

My second one 4 years ago we did much the same and he now sleeps on the landing, again out of choice. 

My new pup will be in the bedroom with us in a crate so that I am on hand to take out during the night and just so that she knows I am there if she needs anything.   As the weeks go by the crate will be moved nearer and nearer the landing until eventually she will have the run of the house as the others do and make her decision as where she sleeps.  None of them sleep in my bedroom after puppies as we have two elderly cats and that is their haven away from the dogs. 

I have found absolutely no problem with moving them to sleep elsewhere when they are more adjusted and confident. 

Again I dont think you are being stupid worrying about your neighbours - after all if anyone is going to complain it is them.

Everyone does their own thing. If i were you go round to your neighbours and explain you have a new pup. the next few nights it may cry and you are doing the training etc. Is the same as children crying-theres nothing you can do but giving your neighbours a heads up is polite and they'd probably appreciate it.
As mentioned do a search and you will see this is a regular questions.
Just a few tips that worked for me(up to you if you choose to use them ) :-)
Make a routine for pup so every day the same things happen at the same time and pup learns to know what to do.
Try to feed constantly throughout the day and then last feed quite soon before bed (so pup isnt hungry in the night).
At night time (around 11pm i would do this) play with pup for 5 mins, take outside for a sniff around and a wee/poo. Bring in, make hot water bottle, wrap up in old towel and put it in crate with a teddy. Give pup a kiss goodnight and say "in your bed" or whatever your command is. Allow pup to get into crate and turn off light and go to bed. If pup cries ignore it as it is just attention seeking (as opposed to crying becuase hungry/needs a wee etc). Get up in the middle of the night-say 3 am and without saying a word open crate (do not give pup any attention) open door to garden and use your command for toilet i.e. "go for a wee". Allow dog to do its business then straight back in the crate. When you get up in the morning repeat and make a huge fuss of pup who has gone through the night.
I found that if i got up early in the morning i would often find pup cuddles into teddy and on hot water bottle. They find the heat and something to cuddle into mimicks their littermates and reassures them
We've all been there with our pups but with perserverence and positive reinforcement (plus lots of late nights/early mornings/broken sleep) you will get there eventually :-)
....and congrats on your new addition :-) :-)

I have never left a puppy on it's own at night in the first 3 months. Think of it the puppies way. He has spent the last 8 weeks with his mum and litter mates in a place he has known from birth. Now he is in a strange place with strange people and not one smell is familiar .Then night comes and he's put in a room and mum and litter mates are no where in site. Now he is all alone for the first time in his life and he is still a baby. So he cry s and cry s . He is so scared and just wants mum. But no one comes. I could never do that to a pup. I would take mine to bed hug her and give her time over the next few weeks to get used to me, the house,and all the new smells. In time she will forget her mum and think of this place as home. Only then if I felt the need to, would a train her to sleep downstairs I may be a big softy but my pets are my babies

I would keep her in a crate in your bedroom, moving the crate 6 inches further from away from your bed each night with the aim of ultimately getting her to sleep in the kitchen alone.   Someone told me about this method after I had suffered three weeks of sleepless nights with mine when she was a puppy.  Of course she now sleeps in our bed...

Hi,
We had the same problem but we also leave our puppy in the kitchen at night and the first week he would sit there howling for us and then after another couple of days of completely ignoring him once we had left him he stopped and he would just sleep it though. The best thing to do it just completely leave her alone, she is crying becuase she wants attention, like a child once they realise that they aren't going to get it they stop, we always used to want to go downstairs aswell and we did but we found if we did that then he would cry as soon as we left but once we left him after a couple of days nothing. Don't feel mean or as though you are punishing her, it is really just her getting used to it.
Hope this helps ! x
If you keep going down to her like us she will keep crying. It is just a matter of time ! x
Jenny

Just to say thankyou to you all for your helpfull answers, I tried the sleeping on the kitchen floor next to the pen, fine for a couple of nights, not now, she wakes up and thinks, oh look mummy is there, I could whine and grizzle all night, see if I can get her to look at me! So tonight I will settle her down and then walk away.......wish me luck.

>So tonight I will settle her down and then walk away.......wish me luck.

Oh well, so long as it suits you :(

I would be happy to leave a pup to cry for 5-15 minutes to see if they settled down, but if they continued to cry night after night it would devastate me. I do think though, that if proper preparations are made by the breeder and new home, crying at night can be avoided in almost all cases.

We always leave a blanket and soft hot water btotle cover with the breeder, plus a toy or two if they don't mind, so that when pup comes home they are surrounded by familiar things. We give a hot water bottle in the cover, leave the radio on, make sure pup is tired when 'put to bed' and has been to toilet etc, and off we go. All our puppy owners did the same thing, plus I made sure they got plenty of time on their own while they were with us, especially in the last week (alone from Mum and litter mates, I mean, not without us) and none cried at all.

when puppy is in the crate it makes it more confortable to half it one side with vet bed and a little cuddly toy , a water bottle with a cover on,  other side for puppy pad and water. cover the crate on all sides other than the front to make it dark and more like a den , let puppy play for a while to tire him ,I give a drink of Lactol warm and have a cuddle , toilet  then pop puppy into the crate potter about in and out , dont look at him , as JJ says make a cup of tea then turn out the light and go to bed.
I let puppies cry for a short while but if they dont settle I go to them walk into the room potter about sometimes let them out for a wee dont talk to them just back into the crate and turn out the light, I thing if they know you are around they settle , sometimes I think it also depends on the confidence of the puppy some handle this separation much more easily than others.

One of my puppies has recently left for thier new home this is the advice I give as above , owner rang this morning pup went to bed at 12 woke them up at 6.45 this morning ...LOL

good luck

Roni

I cant believe that in this day and age people still leave puppies in a room on there own at night to cry and cry. Yes they will stop crying  in the end. But that's because they have cried and cried till they can cry no more. A pup is like a small child. Would you take in a child and leave it in the dark on it's own, to cry with no way of getting out an till the child excepts its fate. To me its the same thing. A crate or bed in your room with you is were a new puppy should be for the first few weeks. Yes it will mean getting up a lot in the night to take him to the garden or get him to settle and go back to sleep, but that's the responsibility you take on when you get a puppy.  I know people may think this is just my opinion, but I truly believe its an out dated method of puppy training and should be left it the past with choke chains.

Well said vinya :)

But everyone is entitled to do things their way if thats how they feel. Personally, I couldn't think I was doing 'right' if my pup (or child :) ) was in distress and I had the means to remedy it and didn't....

There are people who believe a new baby should go in it's own room from day oen and once fed and clean will let it cry.  There are otehrs who will keep a baby/toddler in theri own bed or in their room until aroudn 3 years of age, and others who do things in between.

I prefer not to have dogs in my bedroom but then all but my first two dogs ahve ahd canien company in the kitchen.  The first two were seen to but things kept low key to discourage recalling me to them.  If yoru presence after bed time is no great shakes then the pup will settle and sleep.

Its OK to leave a baby or pup on its own from birth. But after 8 weeks with mum and litter mates ,to be suddenly left on its own in a strange place is cruel. The pup needs time to get used to its new home and family before being left alone at night. I found in the past that if I took my pup to bed with me for the first few weeks he would often go down stairs on his own in the night. because by then he was familiar with the house and did not feel afraid

I found in the past that if I took my pup to bed with me for the first few weeks he would often go down stairs on his own in the night

I don't allow my puppies to go up or downstairs, it is too dangerous.

I don't think it is any more cruel to leave a puppy to sleep alone if it isn't crying and doesn't seem distressed (which if it is asleep it can't be) than it is to take it from it's mother and litter mates in the first place.

I wouldn't leave a pup to cry, but I prefer to start as I mean to go on and I don't class myself as cruel.

The past pups I was referring to were GSD,s and they slept with me till about 5 or 6 months old they had a bed down stairs and would go down to sleep . My chihuahua was too small so I had a stair gate. He sleeps in my room in his own bed and always has.
As long as a puppy is happy to sleep on it's own that's fine. its leaving it crying and scared on its first night and every night after that,that's cruel

As long as pup has been fed, waterd, played with, put out for a wee and given a bedtime cuddle and put in a secure crate with bed, teddy & hot water bottle then i dont see how its cruel.
Yes i did this from day one. My pup cried a few times in the night but soon went back to sleep (obviously i got up in the night to let him out for a wee). I see it as he was testing the water, I didnt respond and he got no attention so he went back to sleep. Like children if you react to their every whimper and bring them in with you "for  a quiet life" then you make a rod for your own back and find they wake every night and then begin to expect to come in bed with you.
Start as you mean to go on in my eyes.

Hi vinya,

thankfully your methods of introducing puppies to strange people, environment etc and overcoming the natural anxiety of being separated from mum, littermates, everything and everyone familiar to them are practiced by a lot of folks :)

I've raised 6 pups by having them beside me at night from day one and this hasn't caused them or me any problems :)  Much easier on these babies at the beginning and despite what others may think easier on the new owners too :)  I also don't permit pups I've bred to go to homes where prospective owners feel differently.  Pups are sent with a multitude of things including vet bed with the scent of their littermates and toys scented of their mum to give a little boost to their security when sleeping overnight in a strange place - however this does not compensate for them having the consolation of company being near to hand and instant attention to their toilet needs :)

Pups aren't stupid - a cuddly toy and a radio doesn't magically fool them into thinking they're still with their littermates!

regards, Teri

I'm with you Teri. My pups raised sleeping next to me in the room have never been a huge bother. They usually wake up once during the night, are quickly taken out for a toilet break then back to bed. I don't let them pick up toys or make a fuss. If they wake up to try to play I just ignore them. They don't get any fuss, toys or play until the alarm goes off. They do get to sleep with a safe chew toy in case they need some relief for their teeth. While they don't get to play they do know I'm there and they aren't alone. They've never cried or been distressed at night. And, they've both been absolutely fine at being left on their own from day 1. Neither suffer from any separation anxiety so it hasn't made them clingy. In fact I think it's done the opposite. I certainly don't feel like I have a rod in my back.

Your situation is different Barbara. You have mums and grannies that provide new pups with reassurance and comfort and I think that's absolutely fine.

Yes I too found that my pups where more settled and  relaxed . My chi has never had a probables being left alone when I go out. When I bred GSDs they were born and raised in my bedroom. Part of the room was made just for them. And I never ever had a pup with separation anxiety . My chi has never cried . I think being there for your pup at night makes a big difference I have never had a destructive dog or a dog that cant cope being alone once its 5 months plus. Yes its OK if you have a lot of dogs and the pups have the other dogs as company to help them cope . Its just the complete isolation that I cant bear for any pup

I think the individual and the breed can make a difference, as two of mine did not have canine company, and did not fuss from the first night, one was my present breed, who would generally not be happy in my bedroom, as the upstairs is far too warm for their comfort. 

In fact my first Elkhound bitch who was 11 weeks old wouldn't use a  bed of any sort until she was several years old, preferring the kitchen floor.

My first pup was a Groenendael, and I still had my toddler in my bedroom so did not want a pup in the room too.  She was not a confident Pup re early socialisation, but again was not trouble at night from the word go.

I did wait for her to settle (quite late) before going to bed myself, and got up if she cried in the middle of the night for a toilet break, took her out and popped back to bed with minimum fuss.  She slept right through though after a few days.  We did as a household get up at 6am every day though at that time, as that is when my baby woke for the day.

If I was having a first dog now with no partner or child in the bedroom then I might well prefer to have a crate in my bedroom, though it woudl be a tight squeeze..

> I think the individual and the breed can make a difference,

I agree. My Mastiff pup spent his nights in the kitchen from day 1. My other dog was shut in a different room overnight. 3 days after pup coming home, he did whimper for about 5 seconds in the night, just after I had left him, but he settled straight away again.
I tried to take him into my bedroom, but he peed himself in fright, he had a 5 hour journey to my house and after spending the rest of the day in the kitchen, taking him to another new place (my bedroom), was just far to much up-heaveal for the poor little might :(

Hello, just an update, I continued with my puppy in the pen in the kitchen while I slept on the kitchen floor (matress) for a couple of nights, I also don't want a puppy up and down the stairs, she is quite heavy now, so even carrying her would be a danger to both of us.......anyway I discovered a large toy dog with a small heater inside you pop into microwave (doggie safe) www.doggiesolutions.co.uk I feed her later, play, toliet her and settle her into her pen, with the toy, she loves it. Someone told me on  here to slowly move my bed away from the pen (each night) which I did, now she sleeps through till my husband gets up for work at 4.30, he then takes over and resettles her till I wake up, so success at last! Now to tackle the sharp little fangs............Thanks again.   

That's great news :)