hello everyone

Had the most awful day today. My mother rang this morning at 9am out on her usual walk in the hills with her 4yr old flatcoated retriever boy, they had just set off and he was running and playing when he just collapsed - and died.

His eyes glazed over straight away , he took one gasp and was gone. Luckily a local farmer came to help and picked him up and drove him home where I met them.
He was a beautiful dog, and one of the fittest dogs you would ever meet, there wasnt an ounce of fat on him and he was very very active.
I phoned the vet as my mother was too upset too, he said it was most likely a heartattack, but this dog had been to the vets 2wks previously for a booster and had his heart listened to and was fine, the vet had remarked what a fit dog he was.

When i got home I got my vet books out and it says heart attacks in dogs are rare, they dont collapse like in a human and if they do its because they usually have some sort of degenerative heart disease then it goes on to list the symptoms of what the dog would show.

This dog never had an ill day in his short life.

However his litter brother also collapsed and died 5 weeks previously,  we dont know the full story as the owner wont return the concerned breeders calls.

Our vet didnt recommend a post mortem, said although he could take a sample of heart tissue if it wasnt that the dog would hae to be sent away for an mri scan etc..... my mother also didnt want him cutting up

Does this sound like a heartattack?  I am thinking it was maybe something in his brain etc..???/

Nothing can bring him back now of course but just cant understand it. So unfair

really sorry for you and your mum, how awful. {{{hugs}}}

i'd maybe want to have the PM done personally to find out what happened, particularly if he was a dog thats been used at stud and a close relative went the same way. i can understand why they wouldn't want to though.

This is dreadful for you and your mum, what a terrible shock.

Maybe in some way it would help if you had the pm done, i don't mean make it easier but perhaps give you somthing solid to understand.

This is really,really sad.We had a English Bull Mastiff who died very suddenly just over 2 years ago.She was a little over weight but no sign of any underlying illness.She was  fine when we put her to bed and when we went to get her up in the morning Brambles had gone.The vet said it was probabaly a heart attack.We didn't question the diagnosis and just wanted her to rest in peace.

It does make you wonder if its connected to the booster vaccination he had as it was only 2 weeks before.

Really sad thing to happen, your poor mum.

sorry to hear this sad news

this happen to me last year april 21st to teyha my beautfull flatcoated retreiver bitch out on a walk playing with the tennis ball with blue next min drop dead at 4 years old,

it was a heart attack with teyha it was over with in mins i try to do cpr  but nothing help.

it be intested to know the dam/sire of your mum dog and litter borther.

i know what the problem was with teyha,
i have had fcr for 20 year
4 year old is far to young to go but there seam to be another problem in the breed. yours and teyha are not  the first to go like this.have heard other fcr go like this as well

the only teams i came to teyhas death was she out enjoying herself with her sister and it was quick not like cancer that can give then pain and last a lot longer.

take care
think of you both at this time you can email privately if you wish.

terri

Just read your post and just wanted to say how sorry I am for you and your mum at the moment . That is such a sad shocking thing to of happened to a young dog ... if it wasn't the heart as the vet checked only 2 weeks before  and with  it happening so suddenly maybe it was a aneurysm of the brain ? It is very concerning though that his brother pasted away suddenly only 5 weeks before. My heart goes out to your mum.

> 4 year old is far to young to go but there seam to be another problem in the breed. yours and teyha are not  the first to go like this.have heard other fcr go like this as well

Do you know what it is Terri?

Rupertbear I'm so sorry to hear of your mum's loss, flatcoats are superb dogs but bad for breaking our hearts. He was far too young to go, but I hope as time passes she can get some comfort that when he went he was with the person he loved and enjoying himself.

So very sorry to hear, what a terrible shame they are lovely dogs.

yes i do know what the problem  was in teyhas case.

This happened to a friend of mine with a GSD. Just wondering if it could be the same. In her case there was a tumour in the heart and it burst. Flatcoats do seem to have a high incidence of cancer so I just wonder. I would presume that it wouldn't be detected until a post mortem.

teyhas wasnt a tumor

What a terrible thing to happen.  Your mum must be devastated.  I am so sorry for her.

Hopefully you will find the answers you are looking for.

Em

Magica, thats what I was thinking actually.

On reading up in my dog health books says dogs that go of heart attacks (and it is rare) will have a heart disease in the first place and they will show symptoms.
Torin did not he was a happy healthy young boy fit as a fiddle, Im thinking it was something in his head, but I suppose if it were a blood clot somewhere that could make sense.
IM a little disappointed it wasnt our regular vet as I feel he may have been a bit more helpful and maybe did some sort of test , I just dont know,but my mum was too upset to agree to a post mortem

Just feel sick thinking about it and about how beautiful he looked lying there at the vets, he was still warm to touch . cant believe it.

Just everyone give your dogs a big extra cuddle today you just dont know how long these precious soles will be with us.

Perhaps you should surf the web and read about DCM in Dobermanns as it does sound very much like that kind of heart defect. The first and only symptom very often is, sudden death!

My thoughts and prayers, to your poor Mum.

It does make you wonder if its connected to the booster vaccination he had as it was only 2 weeks before.

That was also my first thought, especially if the dog was boosted for lepto. I would want a PM done to find out if all other causes could be ruled out. Too many dogs dies withina few days or weeks of their booster vaccs when they were previously completely healthy.

I am so sorry for you and your Mum, I can't imagine how awful it must be losing your dog at all, let alone like this.

So sorry to hear this awful news, and my first thoughts are whether it could be connected to the booster?

I was watching a dvd which Canine Health Concern have just released and listening to a vet being interviewed on there he said that the majority of serious illnesses and deaths with dogs that were presented to him, always seemed to happen within 3 months of a booster.  He was not happy with the answers that the vaccination companies would give when he questioned them, and has since become a homeopathic vet.

So, so sorry to hear about this. My thoughts are with you and your mum

Hi Perry

The thought did cross my mind re:the booster.

Would he not show signs off illness though firstly? The booster was about 3wks ago i think. ?

Thanks

So sorry to hear this. I love the breed yet I hear stories about so many of them dying young.

Would be interesting to find out whether the litter brother had also been boostered prior to his death.

I'm so, so sorry for your mums loss. I can't even begin to imagine how devastated you both must me.....

Hi Rupertbear

I'm not an expert but from my experience adverse reactions can start almost immediately (one of my dogs reacted within 18 hours after a booster) but this particular vet on the dvd I refer to does say within 3 months, so it isn't always immediate or they don't always show signs immediately.

It would be very difficult to prove, even if your Mum's dog is having a post mortem, as vets don't usually look for any links to booster or vaccination either because they don't believe that boosters and vaccinations can cause adverse reactions or they don't want to believe that they can cause these reactions.

However, I would question the vet as he said himself the dogs heart was perfectly healthy when boostered 2 weeks ago. Also suggest this is reported as a suspected adverse reaction.  This is something your Mum will find difficult to do as she will be so heartbroken at the moment so maybe you could do this for her?

 

How tragic. Thoughts go out to your mum and you.
I dont like the idea of Post Mortems but would rather have it done to find out whats wrong. We can all speculate but at least a post mortem would give you a definitive answer. Was he used for stud? If so, id want to know if it was something hereditory and if it had been passed down to his litter. Seems odd this also happened to his brother.
Thoughts are with you at this sad time.
x

>at least a post mortem would give you a definitive answer.

Not necessarily so. In many cases when the vet opens them up there's still no obvious cause of death; all the organs can appear perfectly healthy. I know because I've been there!

Your poor mam, that must've been awful for her, happily walking along and then that happening.  My thoughts are with her and you. xx

So sorry to hear of this, such sad news.

(((hugs)))

:-( More (((((hugs)))))

Hi Rupertbear,
Just to say how sad I feel reading this thread. To loose a dog is bad enough, to loose one so young is awful.
Please give a ((((hug)))) to your mum from me.

I lost a young dog last year, even with a postmortom we never did find out why.:-(

just to say i would def have pm or your mum will always regret not having it done. people say it may not show cause of death but it may well do and then she will know

I had a PM done on my rabbit Honey, when she died suddenly.  I got answers in mine, and it did help with the grieving process.  Honey was my first pet, and it really hit me hard.  But when I found out why she had died, I got to assign a bit of blame to someone else.  I could say "The food the pet store was selling me was bad, and it made her pass away"  (not wanting to go into real details on her death, but it was the food that caused it). 

Myabe the vet already knows that the FCR is a breed that has a problem with sudden death in relation to hearts.  Just like the Doberman Pinscher, who can have a full heart clearance and walk out of the vets and suddenly pass away from CM.  Your vet not reccommending the PM could be because they know what it will be attributed to, and it would be a drawn out and expensive process.  Or they could be afraid of finding nothing, and not having answers for you could make the grieving process harder for you.

Take care, my thoughts and prayers are with you

Kory

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and kind words, it does help talking about it

xxxx

i dont have any advise i just wanted to say how very sorry i am at the loss of such a young dog.
its heartbreaking enough when you lose an old dog but much wrose when they die so young.

Oh my, thats so sad...
Its a shame that fc die so young.. this is the 2nd one this year :(

May he run free x

thinking of you and your familya t this very sad time

Donna xx
(and my boysxx)