Some quick background. We've been dane owners for 10 yrs, the youngest we ever got a pup was between 14-16wks. Last yr we had to rehome our male dane b/c he started off with growling occasionally at my kids, to lunging at other kids, and some other questionable behavior. He was 12 months when we rehomed him(childless home) We then got another male at 16wks and he was the complete OPPOSITE! Very submissive and passive, and very affectionate. Unfortunately he passed away to bloat. Fastforward to now, we now have an 8 week old pup, we brought him home at 7 weeks(we actually thought he was 8weeks already then we saw the birth date on the AKC paperwork) Anyway, we did our homework on this breeder, and hubby drove 8hrs to bring him home. Something he did the first night we got him home, that I thought was normal...I am now questioning. When I intro'd him to my kids he did alot of puppy barking and growling. My daughter became freightened and would back up everytime he lunged towards her and growled. I told her..oh hunny he's just playing, don't be scared. His tail was wagging, and it sounded like 'puppy play'.

Then I took him to my daughter's ballet class(it's not your average ballet place as they are very informal, and all of the teachers are family) He shook terribly, but he loved the kids that were surrounding him. He let them pet him and he went up to them and licked them. Again, there was one small moment when I heard him growl, but that happened the same time the kids were walking away from him. Today he had something in his mouth and my son went to go take it from his mouth(it was food) and he growled at him. I grabed him lightly by the scruff and gave him a firm NO.  Another thing I noticed today is that when I or my kids pick him up(to keep him from going in the other rooms) he turns his head to bite. This just started today as well. I can read a dogs body language pretty good, and I can tell that it's a 'put me down' bite, not a playful puppy nip.

Anyway I am wondering if I am over-acting in thinking I may have an agressive pup b/c of my past experience. I know all about NILF, modification training etc, b/c I had to learn it when we tried training our other dane. Aggression is not normally a dane trait, and the breeder is a reputable breeder. The refs I talked to said her danes are wonderful. Anyway, I'd just like to hear if this is normal young puppy behavior as we've never had one this young.

Thank you

Yes its normal puppy behaviour but one that should NOT get out of hand, he sounds like he just isn't used to children i've had one like that and i would say over crowding it at a ballet class isnt the right way to go either.. as you are giving it no opportunity to get away..

We combated her problem by meeting our daughter at the school gates well away from the influx of kids but a safe distance so she could see what was going on but wasn't in the thick of it so to speak..

I'm not sure how old your kids are but kids generally pick up a dog by the belly area and a dane pup is not light! and it hurts there shouldn't be no reason to pick it up just direct it in the direction you want it to go via a food/toy treat..as a 6month old pup you won't be picking it up unless you want a back injury so do as you mean to go on..

You have to get the basics right from an early age with danes and continue as you mean to go on as a 10month old as you have found isn't a dog you want around.. you can do loads of things to a dane without them even thinking its training!!! lol..

My friend owns danes and shes in texas she has her own forum specifically for danes if you want the link..

He is very young, growling his his way of letting you know how he feels, he hasn't had chance to learn that's not how he should be comunicating with humans yet. He's only 8 weeks old and you've only had him for a week.

As he is growling at his food being removed you need to work on building his trust first, before taking food off of him. It's a good idea to get the kids involved with feeding him, ie let them put his food bowl down (helps the pup learn that the kids give food). I wouldn't like to grab a pups scruff (even lightly), especially an 8 week old pup, he really need to feel he can trust you, it could really back-fire and end up making him fearfull (which can lead to aggression) or toughen him up (which can lead to aggression), a time out for him to calm down &/or a 'no' should be enough.

As for him growling when you pick him up, it could be that it is quite scarey for him to be hoisted into mid air, and as he is a Great Dane, he doesn't need to get used to you picking him up (IMO), as very soon you wont be able to lift him anyway, you need to find another way of stopping him going into rooms you don't want him in (ie. stair gates, until he has learnt the no-go rooms).

Don't back away from barking/growling (he is only a young pup its all play or fear), this will teach him that he can control people with that behaviour, just stay calm and either ignore it or say a firm 'no'.

I have no experience with Great Danes, this is all just my view on things, but to me it sounds like a normal puppy trying to figure out what life is all about :)

Edit: mygirl - you type much quicker than me!!!! you're reply wasn't there when I posted, so if I have said anything that contradicts you - I didn't mean to :(

I think you need to remember that in the majority of cases, any problems dogs have are caused by their owners.

I have children, and I have one dog at the moment. If my child did something that caused my dog to growl at them, I would tell the child off, not the dog, or at leats explain to the child why they shouldn't be doing what they were. I don't believe in telling dogs off for growling, as it is not a sign of aggression, but their way of telling you that they don't like something that is happening.

Dogs don't work on the same principles as us. If something is in it's mouth, it is their property, they have to be taught that we would like to be able to take things from their mouths and it is beneficial to them, so, for example, by swapping it with an item of percieved higher value.

A good book to read is 'The Culture Clash' by Jean Donaldson.

To me this sounds like a puppy that is simply overwhelmed by everything. I'd slow down a bit, he's only been with you a week by the sound of it and is being introduced to a lot of children and new situations -had he had any experince of kids with the breeder? Also this:
Today he had something in his mouth and my son went to go take it from his mouth(it was food) and he growled at him. I grabed him lightly by the scruff and gave him a firm NO.
is going about things the wrong way, it will make him more protective of food rather than less to take food off him and then also punish him. Next time he'll make sure to threaten more or even snap. Until he knows that people are not a threat, don't let the kids take anything off him, and start training him to accept that you ADD food to his bowl when he's etaing, and that you can swap one bit of boring food for one much nicer piece. It's easy to practice, give him something that is hard and takes a while to chew, such as a big dog biscuit or a chew, and offer to swap for something much tastier like a piece of sausage, so he learns that if you take something off him, it doesn't mean he'll go without, it means he will get something BETTER instead. And make sure he gets plenty of time to rest and relax. Socialising is important of course but at 8 weeks pups need so much rest as well. I also would not pick him up, ever, use dog gates instead to keep him confined to one room at a time when needed.

Thanks for the reply guys. Yes girl, I'd like the link. Just for some further clarification, he got ahold of a garlic knot. For those who don't know what those are, they are like round pieces of garlic bread. I'm guessing it dropped under one of the dinning room tables the night before,and he found it. As soon as I saw him move in a manner before the growl(I could see it coming) I stepped in and sorta pushed(not hard lol) my son aside. I know my son's intial reaction was much like mine in that he probably thought he would choke, therefore attempting to open his mouth(my son didn't get that far though). I opened his mouth and took it out. He was agressive when trying to get to it, but the good thing is that he didn't growl again. Our house is kinda set-up funny as baby gates wouldn't work, unless you are blocking off the door or the kitchen, all other rooms are open spaces with no walls to connect the gate to. Right now we are using a suitcase connected to the couch to block off the dining room. Trust me, my kids are well versed, when it comes to the do's and don'ts and I remind them continually of what is and isn't acceptable. Of course kids are like pets in that sometimes they need to be reminded lol, but for the most part, they handle my danes pretty well.

Like I said, with my past experience I was just getting a little paranoid. I probably did take him to out too soon. I went to a backroom(their boutique) where there was less noise and kids, then when the girls went to their classes came back out to the lounge part and he slept on my lap. We were there no longer than 40minutes. I don't plan on going back with him. The owner knew I was getting him, and when she said bring him in(she said this before we brought him home), I was like huh, you'd let a pup in lol. When we got our other dane (that was agressive at 14 weeks) he was not well socialized before we got him, and we believe his agression probably stemmed from that.  I was probably over-zealous in taking  our pup out too soon.

Thanks for the replies, my gut tells me that I'm over-acting, but I will stay on top of things and not allow any bad behaviors to progress.

BTW-someone said that I shouldn't have said NO when he growled. The first two times the last dane did that, I ignored it(told my son to get away from him, he just sat next to him)and I was told by a behaviorist ,along with others that my iggying it could have contributed to his progression of agression.

Ps, both the kids and I feed him. I even put my hand in his food bowl last night while he was eating, and he was fine with it.

BTW-someone said that I shouldn't have said NO when he growled. The first two times the last dane did that, I ignored it(told my son to get away from him, he just sat next to him)and I was told by a behaviorist, along with others that my iggying it could have contributed to his progression of agression.

It was me who said I don't tell my dogs off for growling. (In fact, to be honest, I never really tell them off at all) A dog growls as a warning/letting you know it doesn't like something (amongst other things, but most of these are too subtle for most humans to notice before the growl). It may never intend to go further than a growl, but the natural proggression after growling if whatever the dog didn't like continued, would be to bite. So, if you tell a dog off for growling, it might stop the dog growling, but it also might mean the next time the dog doesn't growl as it has been told off for growling, so it bites with no warning instead. (or what appears to be no warning)

I genuinely don't believe that ignoring a puppy growling once or twice (or more times) makes it aggressive. I don't believe in pack theory, but I do believe that we should be our dogs leader, someone they can trust and look up to, and that is not something that is achieved through a telling off.

.

We have a cross breed dog, so little background, though we saw the Mum, and she was very nice dog.
Our dog was somewhat hyper as a pup, very exuberant, and really a bit of a wild thing. He used to play bite so much, drawing blood on many occasions, that i was quite worried he'd never grow out of it. But what really worried me was a trip to the vet for a vac (age 11 weeks), when he turned towards the nurses' hand as she put the needle in and looked like he planned to bite. She immediately said 'Oh, that's not good, you are going to have to watch out for this one.' The next week at the first puppy training class we went to, the trainer said that as he was a mixed breed he would probably prove to be a 'very hard self-willed dog, you'll probably find him difficult', when i registered before she even saw him. With these negative reactions on him even at such a young age, I was worried we had a problem on our hands.
Anyway, the truth is, he has been quite tough to train in one way, as he has a very independent streak, and has a tendency to make his own mind up about whether to come back as soon as he is called or after he has finished investigating something interesting. This issue has now been resolved with the help of a spray collar, to remind him what he is meant to be doing. In other ways he has been very easy to train as he picks up new 'tricks' really fast and is very eager to play these training games.
He would also growl if he thought his food was threatened, (not the food in his bowl, which i think he thinks as mine, but the food he has managed to find for himself), he has never followed through with a bite if he has had to have something taken off him (like cooked chicken bone), and has now been trained to drop.
This dog is now 2 years old and is both dog and people friendly, he loves everyone, and wants to say hello to anyone who comes up to him. So, with a calm, sensible training the issues can be resolved, and i feel now that the trainer and the vet nurse who made those negative comments were very wrong, they made me feel bad about the pup, and worried, but they didn't help me at all.

It was me who said I don't tell my dogs off for growling.

I said it as well. Just like you say Jackson, growling is a dog's way of warning of course and if the are not allowed to warn, the only thing they have left to do is bite. (Imagine if you were gagged, and somebody started doing something to you that you didn't like. You couldn't tell them to stop it, so eventually you'd use your hands to physically stop them.) I take it  the OP is in the US (from the mention of AKC) and a lot of the time trainers there are behind the times compared to here in the UK, with harsher and older methods used so that probably explains that. :)

Reeve-your post exactly was what I was looking for...some reassurance as a ''been there done that'' had a pup like that and he turned out[fill in the blank] type post. Thanks

Marianne, yea, I didn't realize until after I posted that this forum was based in UK(and the posters) my bad LOL. I think there are many methods out there, and obviously not all work on every dog. I say the dog owner should do what is working (as long as it's not abusive or psychologically damaging of course) and continue. If said method is not working, it's time to try something else.  I should have said that I wasn't looking for training advice perse(especially since I'm up to date and have researched training methods) but some btdt assurance.

Thanks again.

Totally agree Jackson!  When I was a child we had a very highly strung border collie who would take no messing, I was about 7 at the time and I remember him nipping me a couple of times, it was no use crying to my mother though, as I would get a good telling off for whatever it was Id done to cause him to react like that!  Which admittedlly was probably disturbing him whilst he was asleep etc....
It taught me to respect dogs, and I have no time for these parents who mollycoddle their kids and dont correct them for pushing and prodding dogs, dogs of any breed will react if pushed far enough.

> my son went to go take it from his mouth(it was food)

Why would you allow a child to try and take food off a pup?

I am interested in your comment I do not believe in pack theory. And not telling our pups/dogs off when training, will not achieve our am of being our dogs leader. Dog are pack animals and need to be told right from wrong from the very beginning . Obviously some dogs are more of an handful than others you get meek people or assertive so you have to work to scale on giving them guidance on how to grow up mentally balanced . How will they learn manners and respect for everything if you don't show them ? There mother would nip them to tell them off, then lick and nuzzle them straight after the correction. The trouble with us humans is we hold a grudge and can't forgive as easy.

I think it must have been me that said that too. :-)

At risk of sounding like a scratched record...

Pack theory is massively flawed. The study it is based on was based on a small number of, domestic I believe, wolves. Dogs are not wolves, and wolves have been proven not to even behave the way the study 'showed' they did. We are not dogs, and dogs know this, so how can we be 'pack leader'?

I don't need to bully my pup in order to be it's leader. I am already in charge of when he/she gets fed, walked, goes out to toilet, gets attention etc. which makes me their leader automatically. They learn manners and respect because they want to please me, and they learn how to please me because if they do somethign desirable, or that I have asked them to do, I reward them, and if they do somethign I don't like, or isn't desirable, I ignore them. A simple example of how this works is the way we stop jumping up. If my puppy jumps up at me, and I start saying 'No, bad girl, get down' she won't be 'told off', she wouldn't be 'told' off' even if I resorted to physical violence, but will actually get more excited, be inadvertantly rewarded for the behaviour and do it more. If I ignore her jumping up, she will eventually sit down, and if I reward her with praise at that point, she will very quickly realise sitting down is far more to her benefit. Dogs, after all do things because there is something in it for them.

Thank you for your reply..
I'm very intrigued I have always been told by TV- magazines and manuals that dogs are underneath are all wolves so I'm naturally going to be pondering this one.
as its 5 past 2 in the morning I'm off to bed I have work in the morning but i will certainly chat again about your theory ...s

> There mother would nip them to tell them off, then lick and nuzzle them straight after the correction

The only thing is, the pup was born knowing instinctively that the mother was in charge, a negative correction on a pup that doesn't know/trust you can lead to the pup fearing you or not respecting you.

I believe in the pack theories (dog-pack, not wolf pack). My pup ( a rather big boy), is fantastic, he knows he is 'bottom of the pack', this has been achieved through patience, kindness and consistency, not once have I used a physical correction on him or raised my voice to him. If he is really exited and playing to rough with my old dog, I simply need to look at him, if that doesn't work I say 'no', firmly but not in a raised voice, and he will stop. It has taken a lot of effort to get this relationship with him, he is not a submissive dog, he is very sure of himself, but repetition & calmness and positive reinforcements have been the key to setting rules and if a 'correction' is needed a simple 'no'.

There mother would nip them to tell them off, then lick and nuzzle them straight after the correction. The trouble with us humans is we hold a grudge and can't forgive as easy.

This simply isn't true -it's one of these things that people that wanted us to believe in the pack/dominance theory kept saying, year after year. If you've ever bred a litter you will see that bitches NEVER physically punish their puppies, it is all done with body language. They don't nip, them, they don't shake them by their scruffs and they don't push them onto their backs, all of which are popular sayings amongst the dominance/pack advocates. :)

Well I've learnt something today/last night. I haven't breed from any of my girls so i just believed  what has been written for many years.
I may add that I'm a very kind dog owner and do not smack them or correct them in the way you maybe are imagining.
As I've taken in dogs that have needed to be rehabilitated through bad ownership I have always firstly needed to gain there trust, as I've had some very wild mixed up girls who i say with pride have gone on into loving homes. I've become there foster mum for however long it has taken.  I'm very much into calm words and if they behave badly just the sound of me saying Ah stops them maybe if grabbing food off the street or getting silly in the car when a dog walks by. I have a very loved up house hold here with my gang.

> my son went to go take it from his mouth(it was food)

Why would you allow a child to try and take food off a pup?

Having 4 danes they really aren't that food motivated and its usually some other factor to why they take offence, i have NEVER had reason to stop my child taking food off any of my dogs even now if they have something untoward in their mouth i can say "oh maisie will you get that out of such and suches mouth" they are a very amicable breed just people are afraid due to their size and think kid does not equal giant breed!! (and i couldnt digress more they are the greatest family pets i have ever owned).. a dane isnt like any other breed they are very gentle (providing they have had the upmost respect in rearing) and really are as stated a gentle giant of a breed...

All mine are very polite individuals and the respect we have is mirrored in the respect we show them..