Not logged inChampdogs Information Exchange
Forum Breeders Help Search Board Index Active Topics Login

Find your perfect puppy at Champdogs
The UK's leading pedigree dog breeder website for over 25 years

Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Fear and Aggression.
1 2 Previous Next  
- By Barghest [gb] Date 28.03.08 09:35 UTC
Hi Teri,
         yes you have nailed it in your post, paranoid would describe him perfectly. He is like a coiled spring most of the time. He used to be alot worse, at around six months of age when in an aggressive state he would go for my face, l used to tell him no and leave the room and ignore him (  the thing he hates most ) and in a short time he stopped this and has never done it again.
l personally think he has inherited his biting and aggression from his mother, she was similar, and there are other things they are very similar with.

The sshhh sound is the only thing that calms him down almost instantly, the sound seems to soothe him and he will often settle down then and be quiet.

l probably did spoil him too much when he was a baby, but there have always been rules applied, and he usually does what l say unless he is in a really hyper state and he becomes selectively deaf.
l do the "nothing in life is free" bit, he has to sit or something before he is allowed to do anything..
Just now for example  he jumped on my knee and went ballistic as he could see the garbage men through the window, l told him no, and and get down, he does what l say, but grumbles about it, l say sit, he does so but doing a tail flick, l mean that he's irritated, l say sshhh and he calms down so now he is sitting quietly on the floor.

So there have always been rules, and he learns very fast and l do keep his mind stimulated and we are constantly doing things that make him think.
Often when rules are in place he will challenge me and keep doing something naughty and l keep telling him no, and he'll play bite and misbehave but l keep telling him no very firmly and he will then do what l say.

As lve mentioned before none of my other dogs had any real issues, so this is a new one for me, but l did alot of research about his behaviour when he was younger and he has improved alot.
Most of the time he is actually very well behaved and he will do what l say and obeys the rules of the house, but then sometimes he will act out and he is told a firm no and ignored and  told to go to his crate.

He is not aggressive about food or toys and he knows drop, leave it ,stay, sit, down, no, up, etc, and on another strange note with all the fears he has and has had in the past he has never been the least bit bothered by fireworks or thunderstorms, Weird.
So as you can see l have rules in place and he does follow them except for the occasions were he will become snappy, so what else can l do.  

As l mentioned in my other post l have made more headway with the aggression than l have with his fear of people. Right now he is still sitting quietly on the floor even with the sound of the garbage men outside, he does need very firm handling but does listen most of the time.
He is a very strange dog, l would need to write a book to cover it all, so what else can l do to be a leader to him, given the fact that he does have rules and boundaries that he follows.
Thanks.
- By Barghest [gb] Date 28.03.08 09:53 UTC
l forgot to add about bite inhibition just out of interest . When he was young  he was taught that certain hard biting was unnaceptable and he learned that quite well so even when playing he knows that only light pressure is allowed and if he does go a bit harder and l say no he will instantly let go.
lts just when he gets into the aggressive states that he seems to forget this, but he does eventually do what he's told. So what else can l do if l already have rules and boudaries.

This is the reason l thought there may have been a medical reason behind it but vets ruled this out.
- By Teri Date 28.03.08 13:08 UTC
Hi again Bargest (apologies for tardy reply but I'm having work done at home and electricity went off along with my wireless router!)

Back to THE BOY ;)  He certainly sounds quite a complex little character - which is a great shame.

I see you've had him vet checked but it may be worth investigating further depending on the level of exam he's had. 

If you're confident that most of the recommendations are not only in place but have been for some time, have you considered getting a behaviourist in to see him on a 1-1 basis?  Ask your vet for a referral to an accredited behaviourist - don't just pick from a local advert etc :)  Sometimes we are too close to a situation to pick up on all the signals and it could be that, on top of working patiently with his outside fear issues, you could do with a professional observing his day to day routine and interactions with you and household members.

It seems to me from what you've written so far that he is overall a very stressed and needy dog and it may be that inadvertently you are somehow stressing him further - please don't take this as a criticism, merely a suggestion because I know at times I have not always employed the most effective solutions first time round to behaviours that I want to change or mould.  After all what works for one dog does not necessarily work for another and this is quite simply because they are all very individual. 

You've mentioned his mother being of less than ideal character so that suggests some of the traits that you and he are suffering from are not going to be easily resolved, if at all.  But with a suitably skilled and impartial observer you may well get over the biggest hurdles and have a program to follow which is tailor made for your little guy :)

I do hope you can overcome these problems because it must be distressing for you owning a much loved pet that is not just scared of certain things but scared of life in general.

Hopefully someone else will come along soon with further suggestions.  There are more experienced folks on here than me re deep rooted and complex behavioural issues although IMO you would be best served in the long term by advice from someone who has been able to asess his various reactions etc in person.

best wishes, Teri
- By Barghest [gb] Date 28.03.08 13:34 UTC
Hi Teri,
         thanks again for your advice, he is indeed complex. l did consult the vets in house behaviourist and had a really long conversation with her and she said from what l told her that l was basically doing the right things and to keep at it because he was born shy, and it would take along time.

The reason l have not consulted another behaviourist to watch him in day to day life is because the level of his fear is so great that he would not act his usual way in front of one, he would retreat to his crate and stay there, he would not become aggressive in front of a stranger. He would never bite a vet that was clipping his nails, but if l try it ld be eaten.

He is clingy and follows me everywhere, and if he is sitting on me and l want him off he will grumble and sometimes growl because he wants to stay there.
When we are out his recall is excellent and he stays close by me, at home in the garden his recall is not so good and   l need to call several times before he listens.
So yes, complex and often difficult to understand. He never wags his tail except for when l let him out of his crate in the morning and he licks me to death, or when OH comes home.
He is not an affectionate dog most of the time and if l had to make a comparison to human behaviour l would say he is autistic.
Right now l am doing some more training with him that l have read on a fearful dog website. lm teaching him to focus on me saying "watch" with a treat by my eyes.
l tried it inside and he was great, then in the garden where he can hear builders and usually barks and he was staying focused on me, well the treat anyway, so he does learn very quickly. l hope at some point l can try this when people are around so he focuses on me not his fears.

But l guess your right, l should find a good behaviourist as he needs to be seen to be believed, and your right that l probably have sent mixed messages at times or inadvertantly made things worse.
The best way to describe him is he is not a dog but an alien.
Thanks for your advice once more and l will start looking for a good ( really good ) behaviourist.
- By tooolz Date 28.03.08 14:51 UTC
Hi there,
I've jumped over here and have read Teri's excellent posts.

Upon re-reading all your posts I would say that 'The Little Prince' has become the centre of your universe and it's time for it to stop.
All this concentration on him is just re-enforcing his, already held, self importance.
I doubt whether he needs all this stimulation,on the contrary, he probably needs the opposite :- to know his place.
You have mentioned 'Hyper' often in your posts and that is the root of the problem IMO... as Teri says... do what you can to get this young man to switch off. I have a rather large number of dogs and each and every one of them will 'settle' if told to do so. I do use the comand 'settle' but this is upgraded to 'B****R OFF' and then they know I mean it big time and they are snoring in no time.It's like giving them permission to relax and we all know how great that would feel if we were wound up.
I have an anorexic dog and I know just how much time and energy can be focused on one little dog, often to it's detriment.
An outgoing little companion may be the answer as long as you dont get involved in any jealousy 'mind games' with your existing dog.
So when you ask " I dont know what else to do".... think ...... Less is More.
- By Barghest [gb] Date 28.03.08 15:49 UTC
Hi Tooolz, oooh you are forceful, yes l guess he is a little prince, kind of like vlad the impaler.
l am a bit confused about your comment "All this concentration on him is just reinforcing his, already held, self importance. l doubt whether he needs all this stimulation, on the contrary, he probably needs the oppisite- to know his place"

The thing is that alot of the attention placed on him, that wouldnt need to be placed on another dog, is because of his behaviour, if he is acting up, l need to address the issue, even if its to tell him no and to go to his crate. He does switch off mostly when l tell him ssshhh, the equivalent of your "settle".

lf he is demanding attention or pawing at me l ignore him.  Hyper, can be easily used to describe every dog of this breed that l have met, but l must emphasise that he has progressed an awful lot in two years and l guess l would say he is a work in progress.

As l mentioned on the other thread ,a year ago he would have tried  to bite several times per week, with work he has improved and its now down to a few times per month, so l am pleased that he's making progress. The males of this breed can become tyrants and need a firm hand, l think when he was a pup and was afraid of EVERYTHING l had to spend so much time with him getting him used to things other dogs wouldnt blink at, so in a way this may have made him think the world evolves around him.
But l did begin reversing the amount of attention he got and not focusing so much on him when he was used to things around the house and he has made huge leaps.

The area l am not having so much success in is the fear, the main problem. But this as everyone has said and as l have read is a slow ongoing process and l need to let him go at his own pace.

lts difficult to get all this down in writting, but he will go off and sleep and he can be calm like "normal" dogs, hyper, well l mean he can go from asleep into a frenzy if the postman  etc comes to the door, and these are all things lm working on with him.

lve probably done a bad job of explaining things as its so involved, but seriously, the aggression isnt as bad as it sounds and because l have made such progress with that and have seen the results l am not so concerned about it, compared to his fear issues.

l do agree that he does think he runs the place and its a big burden for him , but he has rules and boundaries and most of the time follows them, and lve tried all l know to keep him in his place.
l really believe after reading your post that any bad behaviour at home was encouraged by the amount of time l had to spend with him as a pup due to his fear of everything.
l had to teach him to accept wind, bags, hoover, broom, doors, lino, trees, rain, night, water, cold, sounds etc etc the list is endless.
So when other people might be having visitors over to introduce to their dog, l had to get him used to the door, then the cold wind coming in the door,  before a stranger could come in.

But l love all the imput lve had and l want to try eveything recommended to help his fear, ( already did one episode at the supermarket  ) and l'll continue to try to be more of a leader to him and what ever else l can learn that will help him.
So thanks again from me and vlad the impaler.
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Fear and Aggression.
1 2 Previous Next  

Powered by mwForum 2.29.6 © 1999-2015 Markus Wichitill

About Us - Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy