My friend had her premate test done on her bitch on day 9 as she wants to mate her the test results says ovulation iminiont sorry about my spelling.

Her vet told her to have her mated within 72 hours she took her bitch to the male dog and nothing happened so they went the next day and still nothing the male dog seems interested but has not done it before but her bitch is an experienced one so she is confused when the vets tell her her bitch is ready but the male dog wont do it! any advice pleae

The best day is actually 4 days after ovulation occurs, although most bitches could be served with a reasonable hope of success two days after ovulation.   

If the bitch is showing all the usual tail flagging , I should imagine that the dog just doesn't have the experience or the will, or maybe he's been told off for mounting a bitch in the past.

Jo

exactly the same thing happened with our bitch. leave her a few days, the she and the dog will know when shes ready

would it be worth going back for another pre-mate test although I suppose they cant be wrong!

well my parents didn't, we just left kiz with the studs owners for a couple of days. she and her 'young man' lol spent 3 days frolicking and generally giving way to young love then on day four got down to business for an hour. she was introduced to another of the breeders studs at one point as the stud we'd chosen was untried so the other one was used to check. was interested but not super keen. next day she was ready.

> on day 9 as she wants to mate her the test results says ovulation iminiont sorry about my spelling.
>

It really is about interpreting the results properly.

A result oif imminent really means the bitch should be tested each day again until the result shows ovulation is starting, otherwise the Vet saying mate within x time is really just a guess..

My bitch who messed the dog aroudn was blood tested on days 10 and 11, with imminent results, then day 12 ovulating.  She was finally mated on day 16 (dog was trying from day 13), and produced 4 pups, a smaller litter as by then she would have been going over.

Her next litter of 7 she was mated on days 15 and 16.  Her third and last (7 pups) days 15 to 17, with no silly behavior.

Hi I am new to this forum but would really like some sound advice on this subject please.

I am in a similar problem here, firstly I had my bitch premate tested yesterday and the results said ovulation imminent and to mate within 48 hours she is on day 10 - 11 large breed.
Last night we took her to the stud dog who is a maiden and he showed a bit of interest but not much, my bitch is a experienced one so was up for it, but she did not flag her tail.
so we went back to day and although my bitch was flagging tail, whimpering and showing all the signs the dog just wouldn't get down to business.  The owner of the dog has other proven stud dogs so seems to know what he is doing, but this maiden just would not 'do it' he got on a couple of time but jumped off then tryed her head then her side!
I don't know what to do now, I really wanted this to happen any suggestions ?

genuinely this is what happened with ours (but 2 maidens), then on day 16 (i think) they tied for an hour

you can either get a new test, see how another dog reacts to her (risky) or be patient. thing is everythings a bit of a gamble in this situation isn't it?

hi thanks for the reply.
I may get another premate test done but i really don't have much time to find another stud dog if the last test says mate within 48hours, as I like to study the background of the dog before hand.
The other stud dogs that live at the owners house are already being used this week so wont be able to use them either oh goodness this is terrible!

i didnt mean to stand her to another stud, just maybe see if they think shes ready (react differently to the current boy), obviously you'd want to have fully researched the stud you use. 

Oh I see sorry got the wrong end of stick.
The only other dog local to me is a son of my dog but the owners are planning to use him for stud and would probably not let me tease him with his mum,
But if they did and they mated then thats not good either as that would be in breeding, and the KC and the breed shows would not be happy with that!

>But if they did and they mated then thats not good either as that would be in breeding, and the KC and the breed shows would not be happy with that!

Why not? There's no rule against it.

The thing about the premate test is that the Vet may say mate within 48 hours as many bitches will stand at or just before ovulation, but actually you have up to about 4 day from ovulation to effect a mating.  The eggs are unripe when ovulated and are incapable of being fertilised until two days after ovulation,a nd then remain viable for about another two days.

so if your bitches ovulation is only imminent she may not ovulate for another day or so, and still be fertile for another 4 days after that.

Many stud dogs choose not to mate a bitch until she is really ripe, some bitches won't stand either, but those who have had previous litters often are keen to stand earlier than needed.

Most of my successful matings have occurred when the bitches are very ripe and almost going over, and this is why they nearly always whelp at several days under the 63 days.

When vets advise mating they are going on the perceived average, mating just before or around ovulation day, which traditionally was days 10 to 12 as the average bitch ovulated day 10 to 12. 

I sympathise over the maiden dog situation, but patience is the key, if not this time then next time.  I am considering using maiden dog and it is more of a risk, but every dog has to have a first bitch, and with an experienced girl encouraging him he will no doubt get there in the end.

I wouldn't begin to panic until at least 4 days from the premate test, and even then it was imminent and not showing that she was already ouvlating.

Jeangenie, would mating a son and mother not be wrong?  I know it is inbreeding but surely it would not be taken lightly with breed clubs and protential puppy owners? 
I do know that inbreeding does happen, but would be scared to do it !!!

We have just mated our experienced bitch to our maiden dog - we decided to start early (day 10) so as not to miss ovulation.  Excellent mating on Monday and Tuesday - he did very well, bless him.  Instead of trying every day, had bitch blood tested yesterday and ovulation has not taken place so leaving a day and repeating test tomorrow.
I think for a maiden dog it is important to use a bitch that has had experience previously - it is far too much of a risk if you are not extremely well prepared and confident in both bitch and stud.

indeed, thats why i said risky above. we let another dog have a look at our bitch but he was the father of the stud we had picked and was as nice as the son. basically the decision had been made between them based on a couple of tiny factors, either suited our bitch really well. however she liked the first choice lol.

its not considered a great thing to do and is usually only considered a good idea with two great quality dogs that would work well togther as there can be problems, but there are no rules against it. it can produce physical probs (i know some people with not great dogs that have mated father to daughter- 2 pups with heart conditions and one with a deformity :(- but as dog DNA is not as complex as human its less likely to through out probs than what we'd consider an inncestuous human birth (correct me if i'm wrong guys!). and the dogs don;t care that its their son/daughter/whatever

>would mating a son and mother not be wrong?  I know it is inbreeding but surely it would not be taken lightly with breed clubs and protential puppy owners? 

It's how all breeds were developed to get consistency in 'type', and I'd guess many of the top dogs of all breeds in the country have got close inbreeding in their not-too-distant past. It should only be done by those who have in-depth specific knowledge of the indviduals in the pedigree, and not by just anyone. It will bring to the fore any recessive genes, whether those be good or bad.

how does your vets give you the results of pre mate test?

mine tell me if ovulation imminent and tell me a score of level such as 6.5 or above, and then tell me when I should ever re do the test or when to mate her?

Just been back for a second blood test this morning and asked about the score.  Apparently it depends on which lab does the test and how they do it.  She did say the test on Weds was rising but actual number not on computer and couldn't find the result sheet either!  Said she would explain later this afternoon when this result is back. 
The advice I have always been given is either test again 1/2 days or to mate within 24/72 hours.

You can be told it is imminent but that still doesn't tell you when it has happened or going to exactly happen. I had a girl on Stage 3 "imminent" for 6 days.  I didn't go to stud till I got that stage 4 as when I got that I knew she had ovulated within the previous 48 hours.

You are best to to have a test at stage 3 which is the imminent stage with a stage 4 result 2 days later. This gives you the clear picture. If you don't have the stage just before ovulation you can't tell when ovulation actually happened.

People discredit the tests BUT if you do them properly and actually understand what is going on it makes this a whole lot easier.    I have never missed usind the premate testing.

I much prefer to have the progesterone levels tested rather than a premate, much more acurate too.

Progesterone testing in the UK is rarely done on premise ( well in my neck of the woods anyway)  so it can make it a bit difficult if you want to go right away to the stud.

I have on occasion been at stage 3 and got myself ready to head off on a long jouney. I wait on the stage 4 knowing ovulation has taken place in the 48 hour previous. I then know I can get to a choosen stud say within 24 hours of this.

I so far have had 100% success rate. If I had a problematic bitch it is something I would also use. :-)

Had result of 2nd blood test yesterday afternoon - bloods taken at 9.10am - level of 7.7 - mate within next 72 hours!  So a busy weekend for us!

Had result of 2nd blood test yesterday afternoon - bloods taken at 9.10am - level of 7.7 - mate within next 72 hours!  So a busy weekend for us!

What are your vets charging for your premate tests ?

One vet surgery I use charges £43 and the other one that I get the results from the same day if the test done in the morning is £39!!!