Hi everyone, lm new here, although l have been reading the posts for a long time.
l have had dogs all my life, everything from yorkies to rottweilers, dobes to cockers etc, some rescue some from breeders.

l have an entire male ETT who turned two in january. l researched the breed for a year before geting my dog and visited several breeders. They are a highly strung very alloof breed and the saying is they are quick to bark and quick to bite.
l first saw my dog when he was five weeks old and picked him up at nine weeks, it was obvious he was the shy one in the litter, but as he was the only male we chose him, as the little girls were very "in your face".

The first thing l noticed was when we were leaving the breeders front door the pup was terrified of the wind, once we got him home we found he was terrified of everything, but it was also becoming obvious that he had an aggressive streak, we noticed this as early as ten weeks, not just normal puppy play, but aggression

With carefull reward based training he overcame most of his fears and he did well at puppy school and would play nicely with much larger pups. But he would not let the trainer touch him and would shake from fear when he approached. lt was the same with every person he met, he would shake and try to escape and he just seemed to not like people. l made sure that we didnt rush him and let him make the first move which he rarely did, l made sure that we didnt expect too much from him so that he wouldnt be overwhelmed, but nothing we tried could get him to adjust to people.
We took him everywhere with us and if people tried to pat him he freaked out and the older he got the more afraid he became.

He has come along way, he will sit through a car wash with us and has overcome all fears except people, traffic and large dogs, with traffic he is getting better, with small dogs that approach him calmly he is ok, but on several occasions large dogs off lead have charged at him or approached him too quickly and knocked him over and that has set everything back and he is terrified of large dogs. On saturday we were in a field and two labs came running over and nearly ran into him, l called for the woman to call her dogs, she gave a half hearted call which they ignored so l tried to lead my dog away and they kept following nudging him and kept telling the woman to call her dogs but she kept saying its ok their friendly, my dog pood himself from fear and the other dogs wouldnt leave him alone so for his safety l had to pick him up.
The woman then approached and said you shouldnt pick him up you'll make him a nervous wreck, this l know and dont do but l told her she should have recalled her dogs as she was putting back all the work l had done.

He has been well socialised but it has made no difference to his fear of people , he has never had a bad experience to cause this. l have consulted several vets who have ruled out illness and the vets in house behaviourist, they all say l am doing the right things and that its just who he is. But l must be doing something wrong.

Anyway the thing is at home he is very cocky and  and can bite if he is told to move off the couch when l want to sit there, or if he doesnt feel like having his teeth cleaned etc, but l am making progress with the aggression. lf people come to the house he will hide in his crate and come out later to sniff them but then hides again, all guests are told to ignore him and let him approach at his own pace.Then when we are out he is very submissive and very well behaved, but if people are about he will become anxious and pull to escape and on several occasions he has nearly slipped his collar, l now use a harness and he has gotten half way out of that as well, he then gets nervous diarreah because of the fear he has of people.

He is never aggressive to other people and would flee if he could. So after that long ramble l hope someone can offer advice as the thing that confuses me is he does not seem to have fear aggression as he does not bite people he is afraid of. He is cocky and dominant with us at home and barks at the postman etc, but when out and about he is terrified of people. lts like he is a jeckyl and Hide.
Sorry about the long post but lve tried to cover everything l can think of, l must emphasise that his fear of people is extreme.
Thanks.

what is an ETT?

English Toy Terrier

Hi Barghest
What were the temperaments of your dog's parents like?

Have you tried TTouch to try and induce a state of calmness and relaxation in him?

Also, not sure on the qualifications of the behaviourist you used but you may want to consider someone like Professor Daniel Mills from the Animal Behaviour Clinic at Lincoln University;  in conjunction with your vet it may be deemed appropriate to 'medicate'  your dog in the short term whilst exposing him to positive experiences and undergoing behaviour remodification in order to produce the change in him that you desire .

Good luck.

Hi Gunner,
               thanks for your reply. l have been told that this breed needs an awful lot of socialisation, more than most breeds, but not enough or too much can cause fear and aggression, so l dont know if l have done too much or not enough. My dogs mother seemed to me to be aggressive as she growled at us when we visited, although his breeder said this was just her being over protective of the pups.
His litter mates were very outgoing, and his sister won best puppy of 2006. From the research l have done it seems that because they are such an aloof and wary breed they need the extra socialisation, but because my dog was born shy, this was obvious at five weeks, this seems to be the root of the problem, and the reason the behaviourist thinks this is just who he is and was born that way.

l have tried dap collars and difusers and rescue remedy but neither helped. He does seem extra sensitive to most things . He likes one neighbour and isnt afraid of her but he has seen her nearly everday since we have had him. Even on occasion when he was getting used to a friend, if a few days went by with not seeing that person he acted as though they were a total stanger and l would be back at square one.

lve often wondered if he has some doggy version of autism. But l will take your advice and ask my vet about a referal to another behaviourist.
Thanks again.

Hi
You're welcome...........I have to confess that I had never heard of the English Toy Terrier (sorry!) but was intruiged by what you wrote so had a quick google and realise that I know the breed as the Manchester Terrier!  :-)

Are you a member of the breed club?  If not, it may be an idea to join as I am sure there would  be many experienced people there who's knowledge of the breed you may be able to tap into.  In keeping with your comments, I see from the breed standard that words such as 'devoted and discerning' are used to describe the temperament; also 'reserved with strangers'.  Please don't take this the wrong way (am just pondering your dilemma with a glass of wine in hand!), but I do wonder just how typical and good a specimen the mother is of the breed temperament-wise?  Would it be typical to expect an ETT mother to react that way to a visitor?  I only ask as with my breed (GSPs) you would definately not expect that and I would have walked away from any litter where the dam behaved thus IN MY BREED, regardless of what the breeder said.  Would seriously be interested in an answer (not just from you) but from any other experienced ETT people out there.  :-)

Also, have you been in contact with your breeder for any advice he/she may be able to give? If so, what was their take.

I know this sounds mad, but you'd find that a companion dog for him, ideally another ETT, will help his confidence no end.

>I have to confess that I had never heard of the English Toy Terrier (sorry!) but was intruiged by what you wrote so had a quick google and realise that I know the breed as the Manchester Terrier!

Nooooo! The English Toy Terrier and the Manchester Terrier are different breeds!

I always thought the ETT and the Manchester Terrier were 2 different breeds, with the latter being quite a bit bigger.

ETA: Yeah, what she said! ^

Oooops!  Now I am confused!  My confusion comes from this site www.english-toy-terrier.co.uk/  (Sorry can't do links properly on here!)  where I also read on the front page:  We aim for our site to be valuable for anybody with an interest in English Toy Terriers
Including our American Friends where the breed is often referred to as the Manchester Terrier (Toy)  Put two and two together and came up with........   :-)

Are they similar in origin?  3" difference in height ....both ratting dogs.....

Going back to my sauvignon blanc now, hanging head in shame.....   :-(

The breeds separated in the 1920's but the main difference was size at that time http://www.british-manchester-terrier-club.co.uk/ info in History ;)

Have met both breeds and both were reserved but not nervous, the ETT was more outgoing than the Manchesters I have met and was a friendly, enthusiastic little soul  who lived with a pair of Bedlies   he ruled the roost! :-D  The standards state that the ETT is a toy with TERRIER characteristics and as such should never unduly nervous ;) 
http://www.english-toy-terrier.co.uk/breed.htm

Love both but the Manchester has the edge for me, I prefer the size :)

Hi Gunner,
               actually the ETT is a rare breed threatened with extinction, so the Kennel Club has allowed the toy manchester terrier to be imported from the states to increase new lines, this has caused a war between breeders here as some are for and against. l fell right into the middle of this when l was looking for a pup. Actually the manchester terrier is a different breed, much larger with folded ears. My ett is 9 pounds and 12 inches tall. l read loads about the breed before l saw any breeders but the temperament description never matched any of the dogs l saw.

l was very wary of my dogs mothers reaction, but all her dogs were the same, even the ones that were'nt related, all were very jumpy and nervous, but so were the dogs l saw from other breeders. l was recommended the breeder by several other breeders that told me her dogs had the best temperaments. l even saw one breeder who was also a judge at Crufts and although her dogs temperaments were slightly better l did not like the way the dogs were kept, and l got caught in the middle of the war going on and l sat through hours of these people slagging off other breeders for importing american dogs, the pup l had gone to see was thrown in my lap and l was told if l did want the pup that once it was out of their house they didnt want to know of any problems, so as you can imagine l did not have one of their pups.

l must say that my pups breeder did seem the best but they were all a bit odd to say the least, l still stay in contact with the breeder and she says she has had no problems  with any of the other pups before or since, but she did become a bit distant when l said things she didnt want to hear. She later admitted that one of her dogs had bit a judge. l have read the occasional article that does say the males need firm handling and can bite and lve explained about the right amount of socialisation being very important.

As l said lve had dogs all my life but this is a very strange breed, very alien in fact. l did meet one very nice breeder after l already had my dog and her dogs had amazing friendly temperaments and l asked them their secret, they said they get a constant daily influx of friends handling the pups from one week of age and thats what is needed to make them normal, whereas my breeder had not let the dogs see outside her house and they had not met any other people in the nine weeks before we took him home, so not the best start. l have contacted the breed  club in the past but never got a reply. l dont want to offend anyone, but some of the people l met breeding theses dogs were very strange. Maybe thats why they choose this breed as the dogs are strange also, but l love him to bits and just want him to enjoy himself more without so much fear.
Thanks once more.

Thanks for that explanation - Dill & Barghest. 

Yes l have thought of getting him a friend in the hope it would give him confidence and if l did l know l would get one from the breeder l met after l got mine. l am worried though that he would fight with another dog as he is very territorial and this is his house and he does have huge teeth for such a small dog.
has anyone had the experience of a shy dog benifiting from a friend.
Thanks everyone.

>they said they get a constant daily influx of friends handling the pups from one week of age and thats what is needed to make them normal, whereas my breeder had not let the dogs see outside her house and they had not met any other people in the nine weeks before we took him home

Surely with any litter of pups it's important that they get as much socialisation in all sorts of situations as possible before  they leave in order to have friendly, outgoing, stable temperaments - no matter what the breed?    Weird breeders indeed and poor pups :(

There's a member here with the username Liisa who has an ETT and several other dogs. You could do a search on the name (using the 'poster' box in the search function) and then PM her maybe.

This is exactly my thoughts, but the pups had not experienced weather before we saw them, and it took along time for my dog as a pup to get used to wind and rain, it was bizare, and in his first nine weeks of life he had not seen any people other than the breeder and her husband, so you can imagine the job l had of getting him used to EVERYTHING, which l managed except for his fear of people.
lve just been told alot that this breed needs a huge amount of socialisation more so than alot of breeds, and unfortunately the breeder didnt do any before l brought him home.

Hi Zarah, thanks for that, l will try and contact her and see if she has any ideas.

You really are worrying a little to much I think and the best thing you could do for this little chap immediatley that will help him is chill, although I understand this is difficult. He will learn and the more you take him out with you in all sorts of situations(all the time), the quicker it'll be. As for the companion, some dogs do better in pairs and if he lacks confidence, a brave little pal will make an amazing difference to him. Lets face it, if he's an ETT, he's no higher than a bee to my knee and the big wide world is a scarey place when you're a litlun. Imagine, if you were alone in a dark wood, a wind blowing through the branches creaking above you and you were sure you could see shadows in the trees? Wouldn't you feel better if there was someone else there to hold your hand??
And they wouldn't have to be any taller than you either! ;) LOL
There is an answer out there, you've just got to find it. Don't give up on him, keep him safe and happy.
Good luck.

Thanks Spiritualist, that cheered me up . Yes l do worry alot and lm sure that doesnt help him at all, yes he does go everywhere with me and he has progressed alot since he was a pup, and he has seen so many different things and he does adjust very well, its only his fear of people that is the main problem, l have even given visitors food to offer him and if he's extra fearfull he wont take food, if he is feeling a bit more confident he will grab the food and run and hide in his crate.
He is most fearfull of older men with grey hair, although he has never had a bad experience with anyone, so l am at a loss to know why his fear is so extreme.
l do feel sorry for him, he's curled up asleep on the bed right now and he is so small, l would love him to have more fun when we're out and not be so anxious, maybe he's just a late developer and will gain his confidence as he gets older. l really do like the idea of a friend for him, a super confident buddy that he could follow.
Thanks, l feel a bit better now.

My Dobe freaks when she sees an old lady walking towards her wearing a big perm purple hairdo, carrying a stick and holding out her wrinkly old hand to pet her and to give her a big pink lipstick kiss!
Resonable respose I think? ;)

Having said that to be honest, my Dobegirl won't go up to just anybody and certainly never to a stranger, no matter how desperate they are to pet the chocolate coloured doggy. Although she loves her friends and family so much she throws them to the ground with her unbounded exhibitions of love and devotion.
Perhaps you should just accept he likes his own space like my dobe and be relieved that at least he can't bring your friends down like antelope ;) ?
Glad your feeling better.

That really cracked me up, l think he would have a nervous breakdown if he saw that old lady, its just a pity his personal space is so large, he can get terrified of someone a mile off, although during the summer when l go to car boot sales he was getting better with large crowds, but if its not a constant he soon goes back to being extra fearful instead of just fearful, so l know when the car boots start up again he will be back to were he was the first time he saw one, and he's been going to them since he was three months old.
l had a black and tan dobe when l was a teenager and he was lovely, a big softy. Yes l think your right l really do need to chill.
Thanks again.

> I know the breed as the Manchester Terrier!  :-)
>
>

No the Manchester terrier is larger http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/79 (Size: Ideal height at shoulders: dogs: 41cms (16 ins); bitches: 38 cms (15 ins).), Teh English Toy Terrier is the toy version, http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/186, (Size:  Ideal weight 2.7-3.6 kgs (6-8 lbs). Ideal height 25-30 cms (10-12 ins) at the shoulder.) similar to the differences between Italian Greyhounds (toy) and Whippet.

In America they do call them the Toy Manchester Terrier, as they were derived from the same ancestry the black and tan terrier.

> Perhaps you should just accept he likes his own space like my dobe and be relieved that at least he can't bring your friends down like antelope ;-) ?

That did make me laugh viv, describes my lot to a T!

Barghest, have you considered TTouch?  I think it could be extremely useful for a dog like yours to get him to chill out, as well as helping with fears.  Google it!  I've just started using it on a terrified rescue rat, and he is slowing down his bolting a bit (when I say terrified, I mean terrified, poor little guy).

I also know someone who used it to great effect with a bullmastiff after he became aggressive following a hormonal problem - he got so bad he actually tried to kill another dog, but these days he mixes with jsut about any and all and is a model citizen.  TTouch was the turning point for him as I understand, it helped him calm down enough that he was more able psychologically to cope with the long process of rehab around other dogs.

Hi Nikita,
             l have seen TT on a few tv shows and l saw one woman demonstrating it and l tried to do those semi circular movements on my dog, he usually got distracted and ran off barking at something.
Do you mean l should to it at home or when he is in a fearful state.
lt sounds as though you have had great success with it, any tips or particular websites you can suggest. l really like the sound of it but lm not sure when and where to do it, so any tips would be great, l have had a bit of succes with just saying sshhh , this for some reason can bring him out of one of his aggressive moods but a bit less so with his fear. l used to have loads of rats, l love them they are so smart and affectionate, l miss having them, but it became too upsetting when at about three years of age they always got cancer.
Thanks for the advice, l really like the sound of TT, so any more tips please. THANKS.

I know the breed as the Manchester Terrier! 

>
>

No the Manchester terrier is larger.........

Jeangenie got there before you Brainless to slap me on the wrists for getting it wrong!  :-)  See above posts.  :-)

It's a friend who's had all the success with it - I've only just started using it on my little guy.
The circles should be one and a quarter - not semi circles.  There is also ground work and touch exercises that you can do.  Best bet would be to get in touch with a practitioner - I don't know the main site offhand but if you google 'TTouch team' it should come up.

Hi Nikita,
            lve been googling all day and found some good sites and there are some you tube videos showing demonstrations. l have been practising the movements, they say to imagine a clock and start at the 6 o clock position and then do a full circle back to the 6 and past that to the 8.
There is a practioner not far from me so maybe l could go check them out. lve doing doing loads of reading up on it and lm really excited to try it out.
Thanks again.

> Jeangenie got there before you Brainless to slap me on the wrists for getting it wrong

Yep took too long getting the links :D

Barghest,

Re the Car boot sales, as you've had some success there how about going somewhere like a supermarket?   Outside our local Tesco is a nice couple of benches where people often sit with their dogs.  I know a few people who have worked on socailising their dog with people in this way.  A friend is using the benches to socialise a rescue bitch she has.  !8 months old and was terrified of people, but she took her to Tesco and sat on the benches for a an hour or so every day, just to watch the people go by and after a slow start she's doing really well :)  Today the bitch got close enough to me to sniff my hand and allowed a brief tickle under her chin :)  This is huge progress for her and has taken about 8 weeks, but the difference in her is amazing :)

Hi Dill,
         what a great idea. l would never have thought of that. Usually l go into Tescos and hubby sits in the car with our dog, it would be perfect for one to go in and do the shopping and the other to sit on the bench with him . l often see people sitting there with their dogs but would never have come up with the idea.
Thats great, thanks alot, l will definately be trying that.

Hope it works for you too :)

Just remember, lots of really tasty smelly treats to reward good behaviour ;) 

Definately, he loves food more than anything. l think this will be good because at the car boots he had to walk amongst all the feet and the other dogs and it was often overwhelning for him.
lf he is just sitting on a bench and can start of just watching people it should be alot easier on him, although on a good day he will let certain people tickle under his chin, if he's not on the ground , it does seem that he is most afraid when he's on the ground, and panics when people approach, if he is higher up, say in the car or something then he does seem to be not quite so afraid.l guess it must be quite scarey down there.
Thanks again. 

I had 3 Rescue dogs to foster one after the other who had had no socialisation their whole lives and were about 1 to 2 years of age.

sitting in the local shopping prescient was great.  At the start it was easy to tell people about them and to ask they didn't try to touch, and just being ignored but me chatting to folk gradually got them comfortable enough to eventually enjoy the company.

Having my won sociable dogs with em worked great too.

Do you have a family dog who is rock steady that you can borrow to act as a buffer this way?  The other dog can field the attention leaving yours to watch and learn that the other dog is getting something good out of this.

It is very important that you act confidently and jolly hockey sticks and do not inadvertently feed or reward his fearful behaviour.  Also if he shows unwarranted aggression (from a distance) you firmly briefly tell him off so he knows it is unacceptable to you who are in charge of the walk/outing.

Hi Barghest

I see you've already had my bog standard advice re supermarkets LOL!  They are a great place to help socialise nervy dogs (ideally confident pups still with their breeder so they don't DEVELOP into nervy dogs :( )  Anyway - what's done is done so supermarkets, DIY stores, outside shopping malls, around garden centres etc basically large retail outlets that attract thousands of folks of all ages, shapes, sizes, pushcchairs, wheelchairs, trolleys and of course endless treams of cars coming and going :)  Beer gardens in our hopefully soon to be spring days are also an excellent place!

If you have a local pedestrian precinct take him there too and sit on a bench and let him watch the world go by.  Give him space - no pressure by putting him right in amongst the madding crowds, just watching calmly from a distance.  If you see him looking anxious or tensing up, move a little further away or to a quieter spot.  Take things VERY slowly with him as otherwise he may become overwhelmed.  Car boot sales, country fairs etc are ideal too but all depends on how busy they are PLUS how much space he can have for a comfort zone - too cramped and they're best avoided :)

At home rather than encourage visitors to try and give him treats ask them to completely ignore him.  After 10/20/30 minutes - watch his behaviour as your guide - they could throw a treat a little bit away from them so he maybe feels comfortable enough to retrieve it.  They shouldn't speak to him, try to touch him or even make eye contact with him as this time.  If he progresses towards them and takes the food then over time they can have the treats dropped nearer to them - don't rush it and hopefully you can then work towards them offering a treat from their hand.  Again, no vocal, physical or eye contact until you're certain he is not tense anymore because he wants the treat more than he wants an escape route :)

Slowly, more slowly and slower still is IMO the best way to go with a nervy youngster (I have a breed prone to this behaviour if socialisation is not up to scratch from the get go so know this method pays off with lots of patience :) )

Best wishes, Teri

Hi Brainless,
                 yes lm really looking forward to doing the shopping centre idea. Although my dog was very well socialised and we have always taken him everywhere with us he has always been reluctant to let anyone near him. lf he is sitting on my lap, say in a park on a bench for example he will let the occasional person touch him, but if he is on the ground and someone approaches he panics and tries to escape. He is not the sort of dog that hides behind me or looks to me to protect him, he goes into instant flight mode and wants to run away.

The breeders others dogs were the same way as she told me one was afraid of a large dog and bolted across a field, but luckily was found by someone, l think the reason lm having such a difficult time getting him used to people is because he was born shy, is an aloof breed and lm sure the fact the breeder did no socialisation before  l got him has made things worse. Even as a tiny pup, he just didnt like people, you really have to see him in action to appreciate how severe this is.

Unfortunately l have no one that has a rock steady dog that he could learn from. Most people around here have cats, there are a couple of pointers, lots of rescue greyhounds, and so on, all who are quite aggressive towards my dog if they see him, funny thing is he likes cats and gets on well with them, although l dont have cats, he just likes them when he sees them.

Yes l am very carefull not to inadvertantly reward his fearfull behaviour, l have found that laughing really heartily eases his fears and this is how he has began to get used to traffic. Even when in the car he was terrified of other cars wizzing by and always sat on a blanket on the floor. lt took a year of food rewards and lots of laughing, but now he sits on my lap in the car happily watching everything go by.
So he has gotten alot better, but it takes time, the only thing he wont get used to is people, but lm hoping that with the supermarket idea and the TT he may get there.
For some reason his aggression is instantly halted if l make a soothing sshhh sound, l used to tell him no  or leave the room and give him time out, but nothing stopped the aggression except  the sshhh sound.
l have never come across a dog like this and its hard work, but l just want him to enjoy himself.
lt is difficult not to get stressed myself and l try to keep calm for his sake, but what with big dogs charging at him, and some people that we come across on walks who know nothing about dogs commenting on his fear and making sarcastic comments about him , like, "oh he's so timid, he looks like a goblin" and so on l do get disheartened.

Thats why l appreciate all the help and advice from people on this forum who know what they're talking about and have given me hope that he will be ok.
So thanks Brainless and everyone for your help, l wish you all lived near me.
Thanks again.

Maybe someone on here does live near you who has a good rock steady dog that would ignore your boy but be a steady influence.

Hi Teri,
            thanks for all that, yes l have always taken things slowly, usually at carboots we walk the perimeter and on quiet days walk him amongst people, if its too busy and he gets overwhelmed l move to the sides and sit on the ground with him. l have basically done what you have suggested, he goes to homebase, garden centres and everywhere we go, although l have never thought of just sitting outside a supermaket and letting him observe. l think thats my mistake, l must let him observe and not move him amongst people too soom, he does get overwhelmed easily.

Yes l have always told visitors to totally ignore him, and after about an hour he will sniff them, then go hide. l leave it totally up to him to do at his own pace. On the occasions l have the guests offer food it is usually them ignoring him ( of course, no eye contact, no speaking to him etc ) with their arm hanging down and the food in their hand and he can take the food if he wants to or not, depending on his level of fear.

He is curious about people, if we are walking him and people are approaching he will go wide around them but once they have passed he will turn around to follow and get a sniff, so l always thought its a good thing that he is at least interested, he never used to be.
But anyway, lm feeling more confident after everyones ideas and lm really thankfull to you and everyone else.
Thanks again.

Hi Brainless, lm in Bedfordshire if anyone has a dog that he could learn from.

Bit far from me (Bristol) but maybe someone else will be closer

I know this post is a few days old, but I have just come accross an article about fear aggression, it includes a training programme to desensitize the dog to strangers.
Thought it may help (or at leat be worthy of a read) :)
http://www.msu.edu/~silvar/fear.htm

Good article and also the list of books.

Hi Mastifflover,
                    thanks, that is an excellent ariticle. My dog is afraid of everything mentioned in that article, his comfort zone is about 60 feet away from people, if they are walking towards him he panics.
Have you ever seen the tasmanian devil cartoon, well he gets into a frenzy like that but from fear, never aggressive when out, but he is at home.
He over reacts to everything to such a high degree. Just now the paper boy delivered the weekly paper and he goes mad and screams and barks his head off and litterally bounces off the walls, so there are two extremes in his personality.
He is afraid of everyone, but especially screaming babies, children, men, men with grey hair, and motor bikes. He only likes the lady next door, but he will not let her touch him, but he will lick her face if she is sitting on our sofa, he has seen her every day for two years, thats how long it takes him to let someone get near him.
l really like that article because it gives steps to follow that l can use as a guideline.
Excellent, thanks heaps.

I'm glad you found the link useful :)

You should be very proud of how far you have brought him so far. I am fortunate to have never had a really fearful dog, but from what I understand it is one of the hardest things to overcome, as it really does take a long time - you just can't force a dog to be confidant :(

Here's a section from a different site about confidence building -

"Being scared is very stressful. Exercise is one of the most beneficial ways to relieve stress, so
make sure your dog gets plenty of it. Be sure to allow the dog to romp and play unrestricted
(except for a fence) until they tire out. This may be one of the best therapies that you can give a
shy dog."

So maybe if you have a good long game of fetch (or something energetic he enjoys) before you do the exercises from the fear link, it may help ?

Hi Mastifflover,
                     yes l am pleased with his progress. He is the first fearful dog l have had so it was all new to me. Every other dog lve had has been so easy to train and l havent really had any issues with any of them.
Thats very true about exercise, he loves to run and  and he's extremely fast

Luckily there are lots of fields around here and l can usually find one that is remote and empty and he can run without anything around to make him afraid, he is extremely well behaved when in that environment, its also the best way of making sure his bowells are empty , because after his run l take him into town or car boot sales or where ever l need to go, and he does get nervous diarreah when people are about and its awfull if he gets overwhelmed and poohs all over the pavement when people are watching, so taking him for a run first gets him so excited that he is them "empty" when he faces the big bad world.
lm feeling more confident that with all the advice lve recieved l should hopefuly be able to make headway with his fears and that he will be able to enjoy himself more.
Thanks again.

> he does get nervous diarreah when people are about

the poor thing :(

Good luck with helping overcome his fears.

Hi Barghest
I'm afraid that I can't add to what advice has already been given.  But just wanted to commend you for all the hard work you have put in, and how you are so willing to try anything that will help.  Accept a pat on the back.  You deserve it, and I admire your determination to help your boy.  Jean

Hi JeanSW,
                thanks for your kind words, it really does help. Hopefuly at some point in the future l can report back to say he's improving. Thanks to everyone for your help , advice and kind words.

Hi again Barghest,

have just read the recent posts relating to your lad on the other thread and I think, as with several replies, the biting at home has not really been picked up on here hence why most of the replies relate to socialising him and desensitising him to outside stimuli and strangers etc.

As tooolz suggested elsewhere (and she thought it may not find favour by the look of things LOL) relieving him of his "bossy boots" role is the ideal solution IMO :)  This dog clearly feels under pressure more or less all the time - the signals he gives are confusing you because he is apparently bolshy with those he knows at home and scared to the point of paranoia with things outside his home.  From what you write it seems to me that this dog basically reacts to everything in his life under stress - he has no cooling off period :(

To me he leads leadership (not to be confused with "pack leadership" LOL) - guidelines and rules at home and in his day to day activities that will take pressure off him and make his entire world a much less scary place.  He wont stress so much if he feels that YOU are in control of every situation and this should over time encourage him to feel more confident in all situations.

Often doing some obedience training with a nervy dog works wonders - the dog has something on which to focus it's mind and grows in confidence while at the same time bonds more closely with the person training it :)  If he's been what you interpret as "pushy" or "bolshy" at home, stop him by immediately introducing some form of command so that he has to use his brain and work out what YOU want from HIM rather than focusing on what he wants from you (attention and reassurance probably).

It's also important to give the dog a "release button" - a command word that says "OK, time out out, and settle down".  You could use a word such as "settle" for example.  I say "go and lie down" in a monotone voice and mine know that means to sttle themselves down and relax.  It stops OTT behaviour at home in its tracks which is what I want from them - otherwise they'd be playing mad zoomies round my lounge while the family wants to relax :)  Youngsters often find ways to cunningly get out of these settle periods by pawing at us, nudging us etc - take over!  Let him know that you are calling the shots - calmy, quietly, firmly and above all consistently :)

If nothing else right now take comfort in the fact that this behaviour is often covered on here so you are not a candle in a cathedral LOL.  Most of us at some point or another have owned a dog which has had some sort of issue to resolve so chin up - you'll soon see improvement.  Just take baby steps ;)

HTH meantime ,
best wishes, Teri