It seems to me that Pedigree have gone too far. Are they working with the KC or against them ! Why are they producing free download empty certificates that can be used by
' none ethical breeders' to fill in the gaps and that  can be full of lies ! They cannot be checked and give a good excuse for dogs NOT To BE registered with KC as you can keep your own records. It flies in the face of the KC aims....I think....!!!

I like the free show calendars and worming records.....and the free puppy packs are just to get new puppies weaned onto their food......boy are they that desperate !
they are also offering 4 weeks puppy insurance and FREE rewards for breeders.......OMG. Do we need it to be more complicated ?

www.pedigreebreederservice.co.uk

I would be interested to read what others think.

trouble is how do you know what your actually buying?

This is nothing new they have always offered these incentives as do other petfood manufacturers with their breeder schemes.
Anyone can produce a false pedigree on their computer if they are so inclined and can make them look totally professional. 
Free insurence has also been offered by various companies for the first few weeks of a puppies life including the Kennel Club upon transfer of ownership. There is a market so companies will try and supply it.
What are Pedigree doing other than trying to make their buisiness profitable?

I'm not sure I understand your complaint. Blank pedigree charts have been around for ever. Most breeders used to use them - nowadays they generally have their own template on their computer to print them out - it saves on all that writing! As for the stud service forms - there are often threads on here about writing individual ones - it's very much the norm. To be honest it seems they're doing exactly what many other dog-based companies have been doing for decades.

None of the other food manufacturers only offer breeder services to those with KC registered pups, nor do the insurance companies and other dog-related companies. Blank pedigree forms can be obtained from countless places, and always could.

They have been offering pedigree certificates for so long that I had completely forgotten they did them, although I had no idea you could get them online now - you used to get them when you picked up the puppy packs at shows, or could collect at BCPs.  I actually know very few breeders who order the KC printed pedigrees anyway, especially since the advent of computers.  Not something I have ever discussed, but I would guess most breeders who are interested in bloodlines would actually have a pedigree on their computer even before the mating!  You need to see the lines before going ahead with the mating.  We often do two or three, deciding which dog to use, and then keep the one on file for the actual mating.  Sometimes you find the odd surprise in the generations at the back end of a pedigree, however well you know the lines, which make one or other of the proposed dogs not as suitable as first assumed, so trial pedigrees are invaluable.  There are one or two brilliant online pedigree resources where you get a "trial" pedigree by just clicking on the two names, it saves so much time!  We do have one of those useful pedigree books which Pur Dogs do, but it has fallen out of use since we got  them on the computer.

Didn't know they were offering insurance now, as I don't wean my pups onto to pedigree, but I do the PEtplan insurance anyway, so would not be interested in changing.

My frien bought a pup recently from a good kc breeder who we have known for quite some time and recommended, but she uses the pedigree print offs for her pedigrees and always has.

Linda

Gwen, I am always doing the trial mating for our GR girls, even though breeding is some time off yet!:-)
Very interesting tho.

Gwen ...tell me more about the trial pedegree and where can I find them.....I must be so behind.....!

Please can you tell me your one or two brilliant pedigree resources?????

Hi, not sure how useful it will be, but here it is:

http://www.cockers-online.se/search.html

As you will see, it is American Cockers, however a quick google shows that there are dozens, for pretty much every different breed.

About 3 or 4 years ago there was a terrific all breeds one, but the site was bought and it was going to be altered to a pay per use facility, which would have been fine, but it jsut disappeared.  I did lots of Pug pedigree research on it, and have never found another one which was so comprehensive or accurate.

To be honest I can't understand why our Kennel club can't have an open on line database like they do in other countries.  For example I can look up any pedigree of a Dog Registered in Finland, and any number of generations up to 10 which gives inbreeding coefficients, details of how many litters siblings health tests everything you might need when researching.

I do so agree, I feel lucky that we have this excellent resource for American Cockers, but the KC database would be incredibly useful too, expecially the health tests.

I have always preferred to write out my own pedigrees. It sticks the pedigree of the pups into my head ;-) I don't see the problem with the pedigree ones. I do print off possible matings, but the actual pedigree once the pups are born is always written.

Thank you ...I will search again for my breed. I have maybe missed it as I am sure it will not be Uk based. I usually limit my searches to UK only.

I will certainly consider doing my own pedigrees in future. I have sometimes handed them over and 'pet home families' care little that I have bought them the KC version.Any other usefill generic sites will be appreciated folks....

It is getting late and I wish this site had a spell check...I have a new key board and I either miss the ey (yes key ) or do it that fast my fingers hits them in the wrong order

In response to Brainless -in Goldens a lady has done just this, put togetehr exactly such a database where EVERY single Golden ever registered in the UK is entered (it's all from the BRS), you can search for almost anything EXCEPT owner, find out how many offspring there were, hip scores etc etc -it's extremely useful and interesting and I do wish we had it in other breeds.

Thing is the database already exists with the KC, so it coudl be made available to all who are interested, after all it is a matter of public record.

I was really impressed with being able to find out so much about the dog I used.  One interesting aspect was that he seems to sire a predominance of male pups, not what I wanted, but there you go.

Marianne, that's the one I use, fantastic isn't it! :-)

I also like the fact that with the American Kennel club you can find out details online, can't remember off hand how much pedigree info you can get, but show results, and if I remember correctly, also health test records.  I htink the Dutch KC has accessible files too.

Of course, you can get various reports from our KC, so you would lthink that they could take it one step further and open it up, even if paid for, like the reports. We now buy a download for the American Cocker Eye test results, and take a copy to the Ch show where we have a Rescue stall and photo booth, so people can look at it.  There used to be an eye compendium compiled for the breed, but this makes it unecessary.

I think people are coming up with new sports.  Things like "Lets see how many things we can find wrong with the KC" - "How many corrupt exhibitors and breeders you can find in 3 minutes" - and the latest craze, "Pedigree are the spawn of the devil".  It actually concerns me that people are concentrating so much on the negatives they're ignoring the positives completely.

To me, it says more about the 'sheep' mentality of people than it does of people actually coming up with something constructive.  It really is getting quite tiresome.

Debs

> I think people are coming up with new sports.  Things like "Lets see how many things we can find wrong with the KC"

But constructive criticsim and discussion can be helpful,  until the comments above about the database it had not occurred to me that our KC's database was not accessible, whilst other countries are open. This is something which could easily be suggested to the KC, and as they are receptive to ideas which can generate income, they may well consider it.  

The original topic of the thread, about Pedigree and the pedigree certificates, was I think, purely a misunderstanding of the situation, perhaps by a novice?  Lots of people seem to have thought that you needed to get a Pedigree Certificate from the KC only, more experienced breeders have pointed out this is not so.

Oh I totally understand that Gwen.  I was referring to the original post (and others that seem to be cropping up on this, and other, forums).  Thought I'd hit reply to that post but must have done yours instead.

Debs

We have something similar for German Spitz - in that there is a website (address by PM if anyone wants it as i am not sure i am allowed to put it up here)  where it contains the pedigrees of the dogs with photographs wherever possible.  At present they are working on a way to add eye test results.

There is something similar for vallhunds, however, it's a database that is not in the public domain and you need to ask the owner to be able to use it which is a pity

Kate

Your origional comments were very harsh and I found them offensive.  If you had read any of my other posts I am a very positive pro active person and support even the KC in all they do. I would rather be directed by the KC  than DEFRA !

Not many can say that....it definately does not make me a sheep.....

SOLI--------------Your origional comments were very harsh and I found them offensive.  If you had read any of my other posts I am a very positive pro active person and support even the KC in all they do. I would rather be directed by the KC  than DEFRA !

Not many can say that....it definately does not make me have a sheep mentlity.....

Why do you think my comments are harsh?  Pedigree is no different to any other dog food companies yet they seem to be getting all the flack.  I apologise if you found them offensive but my post was my opinion, pure and simple.  Your post about Pedigree basically said they were working against the KC by giving away blank forms - but the giving away of these has been going on for decades.  I can remember writing out a pedigree for my Whippet I had just booked on a 'Pedigree Chum', as it was then, blank pedigree form and that dog was born in 1979!

There really does seem to be a trend at the moment to have a dig at the KC, show exhibitors and Pedigree in particular, not just on this forum but on others I've seen too.  Take a look through posts on the subjects in the last six months or so and you'll see what I mean.

Debs

We're spoilt in our breed, I can think of at least 3 websites with searchable pedigrees on them that are worldwide (including health information and photographs), plus another website that lists dogs (again worldwide) with health information, plus the UK club has details on its website of every dog registered with the KC with pedigree and owner's name (and in some cases photographs). I can get a full pedigree (i.e. right back to the unregistered foundation dogs) complete with health clearances and some photographs, for both of my dogs. They're my first pedigree dogs so I didn't think this was unusual.