Hi, I have just attended my first ringcraft class, with a view to starting to show my dog, and I was just wondering what is the best piece of advice you would give to someone just starting out in showing like me?

I have to say the ringcraft class was actually great fun, and everyone else there was so supportive. My dog seemed to enjoy it too.

Thanks,

Julie

don't take it too seriously and enjoy yourself!

hi Julie

You did really well since it was your first time at ringcraft, just have fun.  Your dog settled in well and seemed to enjoy it.

Tracy and the mad wires

Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.

Enjoy it and keep smiling but when the time comes that people start to bitch (and they do) just dont listen
rise above it.

just keep your thoughts to yourself, and dont make enemies. I am afraid that the dog world is a bit fond of cliques,and if you just keep quiet, and be polite and pleasant to people you wont make enemies.

Hi Tracy,

Fancy meeting you here! You were at the ringcraft class I attended. I really appreciated the positive, supportive atmosphere - and thanks again for lending me the lead!

Looking forward to next week!

Cheers,

Julie

Enjoy your showing, and if in doubt about anything ask! ;-) You won't learn if you don't ask :-D

Don't take it too seriously. My 3 year olds first time in the ring was, well, different. She just had to be eye level the whole way round, which meant she was in the air for most of the time :-) She gave us all a good laugh that day. :-D :-D

No-ones mentioned...

Find a job thats VERY well paid AND lets you take random days off for shows! :D

Failing that, at least have a job that lets you take days off for shows! ;)

It will become addictive (don't say it won't!)  :D

All in all, enjoy youself, have fun, never take a show seriously and you always take the best dog home :)

Hi I have been going for a month now , was very worried and thought every one was looking at me!

My 1 yr is really enjoying to and the day we are due she sits by the door waiting to go!

Just need to do my first show now.......

Good luck!

Hi,
Advice - Have fun, and no matter if you get placed or not, remeber you take the best dog home.
This was told to me at my very first show, by a stranger, who has become a very good friend. :-)

"what is the best piece of advice you would give to someone just starting out in showing like me? "

My best advice to anyone thinking of showing their dog; Make sure it's good fun for the dog! Ringcraft and showing should allways mean fun and joy for the dog. Lots of praise and yummy treats, allways positive training with no corrections. That way you'll get a dog that is happy and confident in the ring. And that's what's most important of all!
Good luck!
Karen

Sometimes it is very soul destroying when you first start and discover the pleasure of "face judging" but you have to accept that unfortunately it happens and enjoy the good fair judging, the best place to make some new friends is at open shows, if you see people there with your breed, take a deep breath walk up and say hello, you will find in the majority of cases they will be pleased to include you in their chat and will be of help to you, if I see someone new I try to make the effort and say Hello, and all you seasoned show people out there, try and remember how scarey it was at your first show and you longed for a friendly face to just make you feel a little welcome!!! I also try and make my dogs associate showing with a treat and so always try and find somewhere for them to have a run after being in the ring. The most important thing to remember is if your dog dosent enjoy showing and unfortunately some dogs dont, dont force it to do so nothing looks worse than an unhappy dog being dragged round the ring!!!

Grow deep pockets!  You'll need 'em! :-)

Don't be fooled into believing that others don't take it seriously! They do - they just won't want you to know that! :-D

Just go out there and have fun, whether you come first or last.  Always remember that YOU ARE taking the best dog home at the end of the day, no matter what the judge says!

And remember that even those of us who've been doing it for years (over 20 in my case) can still make a right hash of it! 

I took my Aussie pup to her first show yesterday, I wasn't going to take her in the ring as we've only done one ringcraft and she very rarely goes on a lead.  But she settled quite well, so in we went.  I made a terrible job of it, was all over the place, couldn't get her to stand properly or even move properly (all my fault!) but she had fun :)  The judge actually asked me if I was new to showing - how embarrassing is that!  Luckily the judge saw past my terrible handling and she won Best Puppy :)

So some tips - don't put on a brand new collar and lead just as you go in the ring and wear tights that don't start falling down - just a little distracting :0

I agree with the advice here to go and have fun BUT like already mentioned there are people that are there to win, not everyone is in it for fun. I only started last year and was given all the same advice as on here but it doesn't stop you coming home and wondering why your dog didn't get placed or wasn't as good as the first place dog, and if this happens a few times it can be disheartening(SP). I haven't done too badly and qualified for crufts which we entered and got 2nd inour class so was over the moon BUT it also proves that at some shows it is a face type of placing rather than the better dog type of placing. The judge at crufts didn't really know any of us (from sweden) so i felt it was fairer. you just have to get used to that and remember you wont always be the newbie.

There will always be the certain ones that win all the time but a time will come when your dog is noticed and that placing you get is a fantastic feeling even when its 4th or 5th.

there will always be other newcomers too and i made friends with these people and we give each oher support. I also was welcomed by some of the ones that had been in the breed for a long time and their knowledge and guidance is very valuable. you also learn loads as you go along to the shows. I always watch the dog classes to see how the judge wants you to move your dog and how they handle your dog then i feel happier when i take my little girlie in the ring - it takes a bit of stress away.

Hi Ridgielover

I love the tip about the tights! It conjured up a dreadful image of them slowly sliding down as I jog round the ring. Definitely to be avoided!

Thanks!

Julie

It was not a comfortable experience - one that I will try not to repeat!

did your mother never teach you to wear a pair of knickers over the top to stop them falling down!!!!!

Ahhh - that's where I went wrong :)

> There will always be the certain ones that win all the time but a time will come when your dog is noticed and that placing you get is a fantastic feeling even when its 4th or 5th.
>

You will do better as you gain experience, not usually because your face will fit, but because you and your dog gain confidence and show better.

After a few years in the ring I started to realise there was less face judging going on than the moaning at ringside would have you believe.

It is very easy when you start to not be able to see the sometimes subtle ways another exhibit is better.

Hi Brainless,I do agree that the more experienced you and the dog are the better over time you will get,I was total pants to start with and I am sure my dog felt my tension and didn't do her self justice.The majority of the time judges are fair and though dissapointed you may be that your dog wasn't placed it could be down to many factors ie your dog didn't show well,out of coat the list goes on.I don't try to take it all too seriously and at the end of the day I get to take my wonderful dogs home.However I have had one bad experiance when we first started showing at a local open.The judge was very freindly with a couple of exhibitors calling them by their first names,shaking their hands as they went into the ring.Made me feel very nervious as it was my first show.When he went over my dog he squeezed just beside his man bits so he yelped out.This was also seen by a spectator behind me.This was an elderly judge that my father knew as they were from the same village.This put me off showing for a good 7 months.Thankfully this hasn't happened since.

>there was less face judging going on than the moaning at ringside would have you believe

Very much agree Brainless.  There have been plenty of times I have gone under judges who I have been told Were facey and I've done well, being placed where my dogs deserved to be placed, be it a 1st or a 5th, or even just making the split in a large class.

I will never forget one day, afew years ago, I won the group at an open show.  I was told not to expect anything in the group and that the judge was facey and there were some big faces who had won their groups.  Me at the time being a young teenager "stood no chance"  Well up against the "faces" in the ring I went and eventually took BIS!  So much for a facey judge hey!? (Now judge in question is a "face" herself, does alot of winning but has some VERY nice dogs!

as has been said earlier but I wish someone had told me years ago -

dont take it too seriously - its not all fair and square as you will find out

keep ears open and mouth shut - excellent - one I cant stress enough

keep yourself to yourself

act stupid even if you are not

dont drag yourself all over the country as in my opinion the majority of shows are fixed (in my breed anyway)

watch people handling their dogs - you will learn alot from good and bad handlers

dont believe everything you hear ringside, some people are only out for themselves and will use you accordingly (not all people but a few are out there)

see it as a hobby and a day out with your dog, go with no expectations and you might be suprised.....

I know this sounds a bit depressing but this is what I have experienced in the last 10 years, ive also had rcc winners, BIS, BPIS, JW, 1sts at Crufts so it can happen but showing is not all its seems and people should be told how what does go on.

I think you wil find face judging lessens if you get to give tickets yourself and if you are giving tickets in a particular year it is AMAZING how well you will do during that year lol !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! actually in my breed people voted with their cheque books at champ shows in 2007, the known face judges got very low entries and the fair judges and all rounders got high entries, so now its £23 a shout people cannot and will not pay to be not considered!!! I have a lovely video taken at blackpool a few years ago of a fine example of face judging, before any dog was looked at the "judge" looked straight into the face of the competitior, I was dying to send it to the judge for her comments but didnt dare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The most successful breeder in my breed who has bred three Crufts Group winners (two her own) has never judged and has no interest in judging, her interest lies in breeding, and showing second.

Voting with your feet is the only way to go, but it is a two edged sword as poor entries can also lead to loss of classes and CC's.  I think the society needs to be made aware why the entry is poor if it is general dissatisfaction (as opposed to individual) with the chosen judges.

I do agree that we end up losing classes and indeed it has happened, but I think it is a general disastisfaction with certain judges that people are avoiding but hopefully the low numbers will be noticed and they will not be offered the appointments!!! Last year the all rounders and known fair judges were drawing nearly double the entry size of the known face judges therefore the figures speak for themselves!!!

> After a few years in the ring I started to realise there was less face judging going on than the moaning at ringside would have you believe.
>
>

Just picked myself up off the floor after reading that one......................................

Maybe I'm cynical after 20+ years showing but I think it's worse & the standard of judging worse too & this was echoed by a very well seasoned gundog breeder/exhibitor at Crufts when we had our dogs in the eye testing area!

As for the standard of judging, after that many years you will have your own view and knowledge so incompetence as opposed to unethical judging will be more noticeable.

It must be hard once you reach the stage in your breed that you are likely to know more than most of the judges passed to judge your breed, and I know many breed doyennes who are very very selective about the judges they will show under.

I think there is a world of difference between crooked judging and poor judging.

A poor judge can usually end up with a worthy winner by simply picking something out of Open.  The ability or lack of the judge is often seen from the lower placings and the dogs they leave out, as opposed to their eventual winners.

> I think there is a world of difference between crooked judging and poor judging.

Very well put, and an extremely well observed post.  We have often pondered on what is worse, a knowledgeable, capable judge who is crooked, or a fool who is an honest judge?  They are both out there!  Thankfully, there are a lot of honest, knowledgeable ones too.  And then we have the ones who are determined to "make a point" , the ones who are determined to NOT place a top winning dog (regardless of the competition), and one I have observed recently, the "Remote Control Judge" who is guided from someone ringside!!! :)

Something for people just starting out to remember is that at Open Shows  there is absolutely no guarantee about the level of a judges experience and expertise.  Judges have to start out somewhere, and Open Shows is where they "cut their judging teeth".  You can get a breed expert, you can get a relative novice in the breed. You can get an experienced all-rounder gathering additonal breeds for the CV,  who has studied the breed and is serious about the assignment, or someone accepting classes on a purely "numbers" basis, and who has not even bothered to read the breed standard.

Thankfully, the good do far outnumber the bad, or why would we keep showing.  It is important to remember that a lot of the people complaining about facey judges, incompetent judges, etc, etc, simply do not get placed becasue their dogs just are not good enough.  Kennel blindness is a very common thing.

To the Op :)

Good grief, if I were to take most of these remarks seriously I wouldn't even consider taking up showing LOL.  Thankfully you've had a few (all TOO few however!) sensible and positive pieces of advice that will hopefully not turn you into a jaded, terrified to open your mouth and thoroughly paramoid poor sport ;)

This is a hobby - yes, some take it more seriously than others because the do better at it than others and so just as anyone taking up showjumping, golf, table tennis, football, swimming, snooker, darts not to mention a host of other doggy disciplines, the better you do it the further you aim to go and the more time, dedication and expense you put into it which pays off :)

Cries of crooks, sabbateurs, blah blah blah abound, more often than not - but admittedly not exclusively - from those newer to the hobby and often with dogs less suited for the show ring.  Most of us start out with the less than perfect showdog and learn the ropes together.  You may have some minor successes, you may have the occasional major success or may always be one of the "also rans".  Whichever if any category you may fall into, unless you enjoy it don't do it! 

The best advice is to find a good ringcraft class, be friendly to everyone, don't be shy at coming forward if you're unsure about things and - vitally - be a GOOD SPORT whether you're in the top or bottom of the class (smug winners are just as unlikeable as sore losers ;) )

Best wishes, Teri

Dont take anything to seriously, because it should be a hobby.  Dont get distracted and decide not to show. 

It took 4 years to finish my one min pin, because there was very little competition. She kept getting breed wins, so it looked nice, but she was the only one entered!  Spent lots of money travelling here and there, trying to find competition.  Then, what does she do?  The last show of the year, there were 6 min pins, and she finished.  The first Champion for us.

Dont fall into a group that will bring you down.  I know many people round the show ring, that will talk nice to your face, but the second you leave, they are like vultures on a dead cow.  Dont get into that!  It may make you popular, but it totally clouds your judgement. 

Learn the best qualities of your dog.  Great head, show the judge that on every single stack.  Great rear, same thing.  If it has a bad topline, then wear something that can blend into your dog to mask it a bit.  If it has a great topline, wear something completely different from the colour of your dog.

Watch the judges.  Try to get to the show a couple hours before your breed judging and watch the judge you are going under.  What is he/she really looking at?  Learn the ring pattern that judge uses.  How does the judge want the dog staked?  Natural or hand guided?  Does he/she do anything funny?  Like making you stop halfway round the ring for a stack, then continue on.  Dont pay attention really to the handlers when you are doing your homework on the judge.  Watch him or her COMPLETELY.

Remember to be polite in the ring.  I find it goes a long way.  Some people will take the direction of the judge and just do it.  But if you remain polite, it can give you that edge.  For example:
Judge:  I want you to go up and back halfway, and then free stack your dog to the side.
Handler 1: does it
Handler 2:  Ok, sir  (and then does it)  Thank you sir as you leave the judge to go round the ring.
(Never be too loud on this, basically an almost whisper)

Also, always congratulate the winner.  You dont have to shake hands, and stand congratulating them for a couple minutes, but always on your way out of the ring, say congrats to the person who took breed (or group or BIS).  Also, on your way out, if you are passing the judge, say thank you.  Also, say this to the ring steward.  It shows a softer side to you, and an appreciative side.

But the main thing is to have fun I know it seems like a lot of things to keep in your head, but the little things, are what makes the difference.  If you win, congrats.  If you dont, well, chalk it up to a fun day with your dog.  Have fun, and learn lots. 

Bertsmum same happens in my breed the facey judges get few entries yest they still get appointments elsewhere, no doubt one of their friends has judged the year before and nominated them....  you should send the videop to the press  they should blow it wide open....  I still think exhibitors shold all wear the same suit and shows and a rown paper bag on their head with the eyes cut out.....

that idea had me in gales of laughter, though with the size of my bottom think would still recognise me!!!!!!!!lol

Just as well I don't want/expect my face judged.

At Crufts I was showing my friends dog (with whom I have won 2 CC's and a RCC and consistently placed in Open dog for several years now), she was showing one of my bitches (with whom she won her first CC a few years ago), and her own bitch was being shown by another friend, why because each of these 3 shows better for someone else than Mum.

I love to show my own dogs, but it is also fun to see another competent (or better) handler showing your dog as it is the only time you get to see how they look against the competition.

I also hate the people win photos.  Even when I first started the winning dogs used to be shown, now ti is the winning dog and handler.  I always crop myself out of any advertising photos for the canine press, and hated the few times they put photos in with me included.