Remy still needs to lose weight - even with next to no food (one cup and 2/3 small can of Butchers each day) it's not shifting (probably because he's such a lazy so-and-so).  The poor guy's fed up with being hungry - he's a 26" dobe so you can imagine that half the above twice a day isn't exactly filling!

He does get the odd treat - a roast knuckle bone or a rawhide chew - but I've cut these back dramatically and he's still sticking at his presnet weight.

I really want to get him onto Burns - the last time he was the right weight, when he was 2 (he's coming up to 5 now), he was on that.  But the prices are just too high for me - he's on Autarky at the moment.  Does anyone know an alternative?

Have you tried the Autarky for autum years of life?????
Might help the weight, and lighter for them :)
Lea :)

Hi Remy - never had your problem (usually my breed is too thin >sigh<) so I gave up Burns for those reasons.  Before moving onto raw I tried Burgess Supadog (sp) the sensitive lamb variety and the weight fell off mine (even the one who had never had any issues) so it might be worth trying - from memory it's around half (probably less than half) the price of Burns and available at PAH :)

HTH, Teri

Just had another thought too - do you soak the food (really soak to the point of totally soggy kibble) before feeding?  If fed dry and small quantities it's even less filling at the time of being fed so it may help stave off the hunger pangs if you soak it thoroughly first (regardless of brand).

I'd also stay away from rawhide - it's not only dangerous but very fatty too.  Raw veggies are good for cravings and low/no Kcals and with the occasional recreational bone to keep his teeth clean :)

There's a real simple rule to follow with dogs - if they are too heavy on what they are eating cut the quantity back.  Whatever amount you feed and however small it seems to you relative to the size of the dog - you are feeding too many kalories.

For a dog to lose weight without changing the level of exercise the rule of thumb is to cut the amount by 1/3.   Cuts back on the amount you have to spend on food too - without having to cut back on the quality of food.

Of course, the solution here may be to give your dog more exercise :-)  

I have Cairns - it's rare to find one that would not gladly eat until they burst.   They are always ready to eat and too much is never enough!    So I understand exactly how you feel, because I look at the amount I feed my two and wonder how they can survive on it.  However, when I let my sympathy get the better of me within a month I end up with two porky dogs, so I have to practice restraint in terms of giving in to their appetites.

Has he had his Thyroid fucntion (a full test) checked as ti is quite common in dobermans.  A freind ahd two totally unrelated bitches both with it.  Main symptoms in them was weight gain and difficulty getting it off, patchy coat and feeling the cold.  Sometimes there are few symptoms other than the trouble with metabolism.

Hi
Not the real answer to your problem, but it may help cutting out the roasted knuckle bones.  They are deep fried in fat so not good for a pooch watching his waistline!  :-)  Try substituting with a raw bone instead.  Also, veggies are a good way of bulking up a dog with hollow legs to give him that 'full' feeling! 

Finally, instead of looking at this from reducing the input angle, why not try and bump up the output....ie increase the amount of exercise?   Take him swimming, maybe start something new like agility - assuming he only has a few pounds to lose that is.

sorry to sound dumb but can someone tell me why rawhide is dangerous. thanks

Lots of dogs choke on it by swallowing big soggy lumps or lumps that are of a strange shape that then get stuck in the throat. I do think it depends on the dog though and the quality of the rawhide. We've had 2 dogs that we stopped giving it to because of the above but 1 dog that seems to be a lot more careful and throughly chews up each piece. I would only ever give the bones that are made up of a rolled strip of rawhide rather than the pressed bones that are made from dozens of small pieces.

Personal preference really.

If you google "rawhide dangers" it'll come up with a whole host of reasons.

Not sure if this is correct but I'm sure some dogs have choked on it (but then some have on bones, kibble, etc) so you have to weigh up the risk.

Also as it goes soggy some dogs swallow the whole lot down in one and can get blocked as I don't think dogs are able to digest it.

Type faster then me!!

:-P

We added loads of boiled veggies(carrot, frozen sweetcorn/peas etc mashed up)in our oldies food to keep her feeling full when the amount of food had to be cut down due her very unactive lifestyle...
She still needed largish amount of food to keep her bowels moving so we could not just give her small amounts of food as she would get constipated.

This dog slowly walks about and hardly ever takes any running steps so does not really get proper calory burning exercise. 
She is nearly 10 years old and was never one to run around just for fun so even on walks she just walks what she has to and quite often stops and says can I go home now.

My dog put 2 Kg on that I was really struggling to get off. Like Remy, he was eating hardly any kibble but he was stuck at 40-41Kg and I want him at 38-39. I started feeding raw and it's finally come off. I buy dog meat in bulk and he eats about 520g a day plus veg. It would work out to about £24 a month if I stuck with the cheaper stuff (mine get all sorts at all sorts of prices so I don't really know what I pay). Since it's fresh and has a lot of water in it he is really satisfied - the bowl is heavy instead of empty. That may still be too pricey for you or not your thing but it seems to work for mine.

For treats, how about raw knucklebones instead of roasted, kongs with frozen broth, or carrots if he likes them.

For Tessisbest:
Also, SOME rawhide is prepared in countries such as India where the controls are not as stringent as the EU and I believe they have been known to use arsenic or an arsenic derivative for the curing process.   Needless to say, in sufficient quantities...........  :-(

the only thing I found that would get weight off mine and fill him up is burns high oats, within a few weeks he is back at the right weight, not scavenging for food all the time and is looking really healthy !

Trust me, I tried everything with him including, raw, skinners and autarky.  He gets at least 2 hours of running a day and nothing made a difference until I put him on burns.  It is at the more expensive end of the scale, I think 7.5kg is about £20 something pounds but it lasts my one setter about a month so doesnt work out too bad.  The other one is on BARF because he has the opposite problem and I struggle to keep weight on him !!

You can always take up caniX - as well as burning fat off the dog you win Burns vouchers - the other weekend we won a 7.5kg one :)

thanks GUNNER for you help regarding the rawhide i must say i always watch tess when eating these and most times i take it of her when shes getting to the end of it and i throw it away because i know she will just swallow it and sometimes it can be quite large . i think i will avoid these but oh she just loves them maybe once a month treat!!!

Thanks all.

I am working to cut the rawhide and roasted knuckles out altogether - just been busy with college and other things lately so not been able to give the dogs the mental work they need.

Re. exercise - he can get 2 hours a day and it still won't help his weight - he's a plodder.  He's one of the laziest dogs I've ever met, the only time he has ever actually run for almost the entire hour's walk was a route back down in Kent that was full of rabbits!  But I don't have any safe routes like that round here.  And if I did, the risk of him finding and running off with a dead rabbit would be too high to let him off!

Re. cutting his food down - I simply can't cut it any more without starving him.  He's getting half a cup twice a day - an absolutely piffling amount for a 26" dobe.

Brainless (think it was you) - his thyroid was checked this time last year and was normal, and I'm waiting on results from this year's test as soon as the payment goes through.  But his weight has always been a struggle.

Raw isn't an option for me - I did try it briefly but couldn't keep it up, due to cost, minimum orders and monthly requirements not matching up (freezer wasn't big enough to meet the minimum order for each month without running out inbetween), and he actually seemed to get bigger on it!  The only thing it helped was his digestive troubles, which disappeared when he went on it and haven't come back.  Alas, the gym sock smelly feet have returned :-P  veggies aren't an option either - he just won't eat them.  If I mix them with his food he won't eat it; to persuade him it's edible I have to put so much meat in with them that it completely negates the point of putting them in to start with!  He is a tricky dog at times.

I'll try the Autarky autumn, and I'll have a look at the supadog.

Ta!

That seems very strange that he's eating so little and not losing weight, despite being a plodder :-D My Dobe's recovering from a torn cruciate ligament at the moment and is having 3 x 10 minute lead walks a day. I'm having to keep him on lead in the house as well most of the time, as well as in the garden, so his movement really is minimal. I've had to cut his food down but he's still having far more than Remy - about 500g (2 and a half of the dog food measuring cups) of kibble and 1 pack of Naturediet a day, split between 2 meals. He has always had far more than the recommended amount of any food I've had him on, so maybe mine just has an abnormally fast metabolism!

Does seem odd to me though - unless it is the rawhide and knuckles doing it! Could it be some medical problem other than thyroid? Can't think of many offhand - diabetes (I think) and cushings disease are 2. Might be worth getting some more tests done if he continues not to lose weight.

One of my dogs is on the podgy side,and reading this thread has given me a lightbulb moment..Plodding! Thats what she does,she barely leaves my side on walks even though she's never on lead.
Nikita i wonder if adding in very lean meat like venison/rabbit might help,it will certainly make the dry food/veg taste better and bulk it out.My guys wont eat veggies either :(
I admire your strength in sticking to feeding such a teeny amount,that must be a monumentally hard task :(

As for the Burns cant you afford to feed it for a short amount of time,just till he loses the weight?
One other thing i can recommend is plenty of rmb's,the butcher type,not pet shop.This will keep him occupied and make him feel like he's getting a meal,which will make him AND you feel more satisfied :)

How much does he weigh? 26" means nothing to me :-D

"still needs to lose weight - even with next to no food (one cup and 2/3 small can of Butchers each day) it's not shifting (probably because he's such a lazy so-and-so)."

Nikita,

You said he has 1/2 cup two times a day - but at the start of the thread you posted that he has one cup + 2/3 small can of Butchers? 

I had a large GSD some time ago, about your Dobes size.  (She was a big GSD bitch.)  She was a show dog so she was road worked three to four times a week.  Lots of exercise - plus she was hyper and not at all a plodder.  To keep her at her correct weight I fed her two scant cups of dry food per day with about a desert spoon of minced beef.  One dry dog biscuit.  No other treats, apart for the occassional raw knuckle bone.   I'm thinking that what you are feeding your dog is roughly the same amount - and if yours is a "plodder" it's not surprising he's very well padded :-)

For some reason, you dog reminds me a lot of .... me :-)

>You said he has 1/2 cup two times a day - but at the start of the thread you posted that he has one cup + 2/3 small can of Butchers?

1/2 cup twice a day is still only one cup :-D That's about 200g of dried food a day, plus 266g of a butchers tin (I think).

How much does Remy weigh and how much should he weigh? Could you not just feed him butchers for a while? That way you could feed him more bulk as it takes so much more wet food to get the same number of calories as in dry. A few months ago I switched mine to complete as part of a food trial for allergies. I had him on Naturediet for the first 6 weeks. I was having to feed so much bulk though to get the calories up that he was having 4 packs a day (1560g of food!) and he still kept losing weight. I tried to up the amount but then that gave him the squits so I ended up having to bring in a kibble as well, as at the end of 6 weeks he'd dropped about 4 kgs and was fast resembling a toast rack! He's at about 43kgs now. He's from European breeding though, so may be bigger than your Remy.

> You said he has 1/2 cup two times a day - but at the start of the thread you posted that he has one cup + 2/3 small can of Butchers

Yes, over the whole day he has 1 cup and 2/3 of a tin, so for each meal it's 1/2 cup and 1/3 of a tin.  Sorry for the confusion :-)

> As for the Burns cant you afford to feed it for a short amount of time,just till he loses the weight?
> One other thing i can recommend is plenty of rmb's,the butcher type,not pet shop.This will keep him occupied and make him feel like he's getting a meal,which will make him AND you feel more satisfied :-)

Nope, can't afford it at all - that's what's irritating, as I know it would probably work if I could.  But I'm just that broke :-(  I will have a look round some other butchers - the one I get rmb's from normally tends to only have ribs and the like, so more of a meal than a knuckle bone cos the dogs can eat pretty much the whole thing.

> How much does Remy weigh and how much should he weigh?

He weighs (at last weigh-in) between 40 and 41kg - he should be 31kg. Eek!  I may try just Butchers, that occurred to me this morning.

> He's from European breeding though, so may be bigger than your Remy.

TBH most male dobes seem to be bigger than Remy, he's a dinky dobe!  Heck, Soli weighs in at 38kg and she's 1/2" shorter than him - very different conformation though, much beefier.

My freind has a dobe bitch and her and three previous bitches that were spayed got 300g measure of Proplan (25/26% protein and around 15/16% fat) or similar food, adn they ahd plenty of excersie.  Her males had about 450g but were entrie and abotu 40kg.

If your funds are tight have you thought about feeding Chappie? It has less fat than other foods so would help with the weight loss

How about using plain mixer biscuit for part of his meals (as a substitute not in addition too). I always use this if my old lab x is getting a bit podgy, as he has mobility problems and is 14 years old, he tends to get a bit too fat every now & then :(  As he is getiing on a bit, he's not too keen on the crunchyness or blandness, so I soak the mixer in watered down dog gravy.

EDIT: how about tripe? that is v. cheap. My pup is on that, and suprisingly, since switching him to tripe, his gas is a lot less smelly :)

To be honest, I'd loose the butchers.

One of mine has a habit of blowing up like a ballon just before her season (not water retention just podge) and for the last 14 weeks or so i have been battling to drop the weight back of her.  It's worked, i can now find her ribs again

She is on James Wellbeloved light (the fish one) and has her food in a treat ball to make it last longer and seem a bit more exciting when she has dried food.

When she has raw she normally has either the smallest chicken wing in the packet (she is only meant to weigh about 6.5 kg) or alternatively about a dessert spoon of tripe but that is mixed well with about a table spoon of cooked and cold swede/carrot mix that you get in the freezer section of the supermarket.

they have a bone graveyard outside (ok and inside sometimes too) of old recreational bones but defiantely not any roast bones or any other treats, when the others are having a biscuit or treat or something she has the very smallest corner of a tripe stick so she doesn't feel left out.

Speaking to the nice people at Arden Grange (and being given a bag of their light food to try) at crufts the lady i spoke to was saying that she doesn't feed raw but when she needs to drop weight she uses the swede/carrot mixed with nature diet light.

Kate

he's a plodder.  He's one of the laziest dogs I've ever met, the only time he has ever actually run for almost the entire hour's walk was a route back down in Kent that was full of rabbits!

Ha!  A frustrated gundog in dobie clothing?  :-)  How about getting some canvas gundog dummies and a bottle of rabbit scent (Turner Richards have an on-line site you can buy both from), then go out, hide the dummies in the hedgerows and get him to hunt them.