Although I enjoyed Crufts this year it was notable that nothing has been done to tackle exaggerations in some breeds that inevitably impact on the health or quality of life of the dogs.    Overly short legs, overly long backs, excessive skin, muzzles so short that it leads to breathing difficulties.   One example is the Neapolitan Mastiff - walking round the benches they seem to be more exaggerated than ever - the amount of loose skin and the overly short muzzles are not historically correct and can only make the dog uncomfortable - how anyone can think that is a positive show point I have no idea.    

Is anyone willing to defend breeding practices that have brought us the modern bulldog, neapolitan, dachshund et al and if not why is nothing being done by the KC to breed these exaggerations out ?  

Does anybody think that some of the dog's we saw could ever do a days work for which they were bred??And they they put on an interveiw saying dogs dont need exersize well not much !!

I also thought the Neapolitans were overly wrinkled and had some very sore patches on their hocks...I do feel this is not right though I am sure a breeder/shower will be along to give an opinion soon!
On a more upbeat note I thought the Dachsies looked better this year with less weight and altogether fitter happier dogs...well the ones I saw anyway. Not too deep in the chest and not dragging the floor, much better able to work as they should. The Shar-pei's also looked better now the wrinkles have been ironed out a little. Over-exaggeration is not a good thing and IMO does the dog showing fraternity no good at all.

I think possibly some breed standards again the Neo's should be updated, but not knowing Neos very well, does anyone own a good to standard Neo with all the wrinkles how it should be? does it have any ill effects, breathing, general motability etc ?. But again we could say that about the chiuhaua SP does it have health problems being sooooo tiny. as well as alot of breeds. I know alot of effort from breeders of the bulldog today are striving for health, easier breathing self whelping and straight tails.

The Kc wont do naf all, about it. its upto alot of breeders to breed for health as well as true to type, the dogs that baited bulls are olde tyme and not our british bulldog we see today.

Is it entirely up to the KC to do something about it, though? I can't lay my hands on the wording, but they have just changed the wording on the CC to ask the judges to pay more attention to health and are apparently going to be doing spot checks on this in some of the most affected breeds.

Unfortunately the truth remains that people will breed what the judges put up ...

M.

That is a good decision, i think we would all rather see a happy healthy dog, fit for purpose as they kept saying, but still typical of the breed. I thought the rottie was a perfect example of this, very slender not too heavy fit for purpose could run and do a days work but looked beautiful.

The KC and the bulldog breed health commitee have removed the word massive from the breed standard we now have
Head, fairly large in proportion to size but no point so much in excess of others as to destroy the general symmetry, or make the dog appear deformed, or interfere with its powers of motion.

The change wont happen over night though,a lot of bulldogs are a lot healthier both in breathing and movement along with general health.

Am now beginning to think I've imagined the change of wording on CCs, as I can't find it anywhere. Does it ring a bell with anyone else, or am I going mad? (entirely possible!).

M.

Ive googled it and looked on KC website cant see anything. But it sounds like a good idea so lets hope you didnt imagine it

> The Kc wont do naf all, about it.

The KC can't do naf all.  they altered the standards quite a few years ago to remove clauses that rewarded exaggeration, like large head instead of massive Head in bulldogs etc.

They also added a couple of years ago to each standard the emboldened addition to this clause in all standards:

"Faults
Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog"

Fortunately I own a breed that is natural and still has to do the job it was designed for, and we regularly use hunting dogs in our breeding program having a small gen pool here, so our lack of being able to hunt does not impact.

Recently a dog whose owners visit Sweden had his first Elk, and he has two American Grandparents (where they aren't allowed to hunt), and Norwegian imports are a little way back in the other side of his pedigree).
First of all breeders have to want to change their breed, and of course this takes time, (evolution even in domestic animals takes time), and of course the judges must not reward the dogs that are exaggerated, as breeders will not want to produce dogs that can't/don't win.

Aha Barbara, I bet that change of wording to the standard is what I'm thinking of, rather than a change to the CC wording ...

M.

I think it or something similar has recently been added to CC's.

Now don't do that, I'd stopped hunting for it as I thought I'd got confused ... but I did think it was CCs.

M.

I thought the comment about show dogs not needing exercise was very strange...

Did anyone see the GSD with it's very short back legs? I admit that do not know a thing about them even though my aunt bred them for years. Even so, that one seemed to be stuck in the mud and everyone in our house said ewwww when we saw it!

Wasn't that the "German" GSD? and isn't it a top champion? Like you, Spiritulist, I'm no expert, but I thought it looked awful. I much prefer them with a more level topline.

>Wasn't that the "German" GSD? and isn't it a top champion?

Yep - he has a string of successes over seas including the Seiger :)  I thought he was quite magnificent.   Unfortunately he did not appear to be handled to best advantage in the Group ring but presumably he was more freely moving in the breed ring rather than pulling off to the side as he did in the main arena.  Had his handler been better able to gait him correctly I think he would have secured a place :)

I believe it was the German Seiger and I don't think the camera angles helped him. I think he was a lovely dog, good size, excellent movement and by all accounts wonderful temp'
Don't forget the German dogs are shown very differently to ours here in the UK with HUGE rings and lots of outside attraction so he was at a disadvantage as it is not allowed in the UK (I do not think its a good idea as our shows are to small and space at a premium to attract from outside the rings) His young handler did a great job under the circumstances and I think you need to see this dog moving out with lots of space to fully appreciate his qualities.
Just My opinion!!

To the OP,

I think it will take some time and several generations before some of the exagerrations that have crept into certain breeds can be rectified - so perhaps a little premature to feel "that nothing has been done" :)  Several breeds which have come under critiscism in the past for faces, legs etc being too short or heads too large seem to have the support of breeders to reduce the degree of exagerration which can creep into any breed after all.

I was a bit surprised at the amount of wrinkle on the Neo which was featured as he seemed to be far more heavily wrinkled than any of his kennel mates - perhaps an age thing as I believe he was junior(ish) age???  Don't know if these "fill" to a degree with maturity but it did seem odd looking in comparison to the other Neos featured.  Also he seemed to have very "scaley" and prominent pressure points on his elbows ......... another thing not obviously noticeable in the others televised of the breed

Teri

Link to the breed standard for interest.

http://www.theneapolitanmastiffclubuk.com/breedstandard.htm

I think it or something similar has recently been added to CC's.

The CCs I handed out yesterday at Crufts were the same as normal.  You would think if they had changed they'd be awarded at the KCs own show!  Maybe they're changing later in the year?  I've not heard of any changes to them - only the wording on the breed standards. 

Debs

The wording on the RCC we won last weekend is different to our previous ones.  It now states the following
"having assessed the dogs and penalised any features or exaggerations which I consider detrimental to their
soundness, health or welfare, I am clearly of the opinion that ......................... is of such outstanding merit etc".

Our breed is one that the KC have been concerned about exaggerations and our Standard was altered last year, removing the word massive amongst other things.

Karen

I thought that GSD was gorgeous!! Looked like a GSD should look, well bent legs with very strong drive from them (look how he was motoring round the ring!) and a gorgeous colour as well, magnificant dog.

I was just chuffed to finally see a Stafford gain 4th place in the Terrier Group!! Whoo Hoo!!! :) :) :) :)

>"having assessed the dogs and penalised any features or exaggerations which I consider detrimental to their soundness, health or welfare, I am clearly of the opinion that ......................... is of such outstanding merit etc".

That's the beastie, Kazz! Strange they didn't have the new ones in place for Crufts - or is it just for the breeds with the health concerns? Surely not?

M. (glad she isn't losing her marbles entirely)

i agree it looked like a very poor quality shepherd to me

Sadly GSDs seem to bring out opposing camps time and time again - clearly his record on the Continent speaks volumes for the esteem in which he is held overseas and Zena must have thought very highly of him to short list him in such a strong group :)

Of course if we all liked/disliked the same dogs and/or for the same reasons it would be a boring old world wouldn't it!

In Response to KazzF

Yep that was the changed wording I had heard of, bit bad if it wasn't on all the CC's, maybe they are still using up old stocks.

Bourtie steal the Limelight got Res Best of Group in 2006 - a wonderful stafford!
And Ladarna Birthday Boy got reserve best of group in 2001..
So there have been one or two occasions of Staffords being placed in group!

Not keen on the shepherd myself, I grew up with a shepherd cross, but have no other experience of the breed - so don't know about exaggeration of them, but he sure looked uncomfortable to me..!

Certainly a fair share of exaggerated Staffords though imo