Hi again, well we thought we were getting somewhere with buster, he was becoming rather submissive when on walks if another dog walked past he would walk behind me or just sit down, he wagged his little stump like mad when dogs came and sniffed him, he was walking off lead to heal without being told to, walking past other dogs it seemed like he wasnt bothered, then.......i was about to put him back on his lead and a dobie we know came up snifffin he was waggin his stump and looking at her, and so we decided to leave him off lead, we threw another stone for him to chase, but then he ran like the cleepers over to the dobie chased her caught up with her made the awful roar noise and bit her on the back, he didnt injure her thank goodness, but why did he do this? Of course he went straight back on his lead and was told off, but i just cant read him, he just does these things, the other day a friend of my sons came in and he is here everyday and he walked into the kitchen and he went for him!!!!!!! WHY i am really getting concerned now, most of the time and especially at classes he looks like butter wouldnt melt, i really am at the end of my tether, Please can someone give me some more advice, i have never had a rottie like this before,

thanks

roxie and busters mum x

As this is recent and unexpected behaviour I would really be thinking on ruling out some medical issue.  Is there anything you can pinpoint that shows that things have gradually changed with his tolerance, or ti this as it seems a sudden change.

What advice has the breeder given?  I would also contact the breed clubs for breed specific advice.  They may know of an experienced Rottie trainer or a behaviourist familiar with the breed in your area, as I think it would be unwise for anyone on here to do anything but guess at what is going on, as he has shown aggression towards a person.

The way forward will really depend on what is going on, depending on why the dog is behaving this way the way to deal with it will be very different.

There are many reasons why a dog may act like this including not recieving enough mental/physical stimulation, and very commonly addolesence. Also a fightened dog will use aggresion.

Most of the time the dog is givving us plenty of signals, but we as humans just don't see them.

They often involve the slightest shift in body posture/eye movement.

When a dog is wagging his tail, it can signify them being happy, exited, frightened or unsure. Exited for a dog doesn't just mean he wants to play & be friendly it can mean he is wound up like a spring, ready for action. If when the dobbie approached, your dogs stump was raised up along with raised/forward ears it would have signalled him being exited and alerted you to a possible problem. Or if his ears were pulled down/back he may of been frightened and felt the need to defend himself/you. (I'm not saying this is your fault he went for the dobbie here).

It would be well worth you reading up on dogs body language, it may help you recognise potential problems. I would also be getting in touch with a dog behaviourist, the sooner you can get to the bottom of this the better.  I most definately would not be letting him off the lead again without a muzzle.

Good luck.

Hi thanks for your comments, i have done some more research and have paid increasing attention when approched by another dog, his back legs are quivering, so im guessing he is frightened and hes just trying to get in there first with other dogs that is, but as far as with people in the home he is either being over protective, or hes firgtened again, but my girl doesnt show any of these signs and he has only just started doing it, we have had them both since they were 11 weeks old, there is 2 months between them he used to be fine, in every way, and naivley i thought he would be reacting the same way as roxie, they go out togetether unless she is inseason, and he reacts the same whether she is with us or not, surely he can see that theres nothing to be scared about if she is playing? Anyway we will continue with the classes, and see how he goes, a muzzle is definelty a must now, but they are only babies they are only 11 and 13 months old, it was suggested to me to get him neutered, which i will do as he gets older, obvioulsly to stop baby busters, but i read somewhere that this will not curb any aggression and it is just a myth? thank you

roxie and busters mum x

Aggression can be a learned behaviour, particularly if he's using it to try and see off a 'threat' before the 'threat' attacks him.  So from that point of view, castration wouldn't be much help IMO.  There's even a possibility that it could make the situation worse - I've heard of numerous situations where a dog has gone downhill badly after castration because the testosterone was giving them a kind of confidence boost and without it, they fell to pieces.

I'd rule out any medical causes personally, including a full thyroid panel (not just 1 or 2 factors, and most definitely not just a TSH test as these are next to useless for dogs on their own) and a physical checkover.  Some dogs hide pain incredibly well - my dobe girl was in pain from misaligned vertebrae and her whole pelvis was wonky, and I didn't realise for 6 months because she hid it so well.  Her chiropractor sorted it out and she's been much, much better since.

As for walking I would be walking him separately for now - Roxie may not behave the same but dogs are very prone to learning bad behaviours as well as good from each other!  Plus if you only have one dog to focus on you can catch more of the subtle signals he may be giving off, and can put all your attention into working with him.  And of course a good behaviourist is a must - the APDT would be a good start (google!), you want to avoid any trainers who want to deal with aggression with any hint of force or punishment like the plague.

I'd agree with Nikita regarding the castration. It will only help a dog that is being agressive due to his sex drive/testosterone levels, not one who is frightened. And walking him seperately sounds like a good idea too.

> you want to avoid any trainers who want to deal with aggression with any hint of force or punishment like the plague.

definately. Force/punishment will only make him worse, especially due to his breed and definately if his problems are down to insecurities.

At Busters age (my pup is called Buster too :) ), he is going through a lot of mental/physical/hormonal changes, it is not uncommon for problems to show up now, problems that never were there before and old probs getting worse.

I am in no way qualified or very experienced, but along with training classes I would have thought that some self confidence stuff would help him overcome his insecurites. More socialisation, like getting him used to being around other dogs from a distance at first, so there is no chance of his aggression turning into a habit. And maybe some sort of agility. Dogs learn self confidence much the same way we do (so I have read), small personal achievements should go a long way to help him feel more self assured and thus, less inclined to feel the need to have a go at other dogs??

Muzzles are a great way of avoiding any accidents, but, as I'm sure you know, not a cure. It sounds like you are willing to learn which will help a great deal in overcoming Busters problems. It must be frustrating for you as I'm sure he is a loving, cuddley softie with you & your family

Hi i may be just jumping to conclustion but are you sure your dog was being agressive or was he just playing i have a eight year old rottie bitch that has never shown agresstion but when she plays she is what i call very gobby she will make a growling noise chase and will lay down creep along the floor like a collie. and a male entire dog will also grab at the back of the neck as this is what they do when mating you could be misreading the signs and that would be a shame for this rottie if you dont understand him get scared and try to re home him how will other people understand him. please have faith will love and training you get over this.

Thanks for your replies, however  rehoming buster would never be an option i love him to bits and he is part of our family, i wouldnt rehome my kids just cos they were a bit naughty sometimes!!! I am sure it is fear from other dogs why he is like this, if i am with him reassurring him that :its ok: he will let another dog approch and sniff, he stays calm, but if like the dobie it just runs to him, he attacks first in the unlikely event that it may get him first, my daughter has a lhasa whom buster will tolerate at a distance, but only when i am there reassuring him, busters leg will shake, but he soon calms down he is terrified of him, and he will bark and jump forward and then run back from him, whereas roxie loves the lhasa, she adores him and buster can see this, we will be starting agility in a few months as buster is only 11 months old, and we will continue to reassure him in the hope he starts to realize that its ok, and these other dogs arent going to hurt him, his body language is so hard to read, in one instance he can be sat in a calm relaxed way ears down not panting and what i call smiling, but then he will just go into one from no where, thats the biggest problem, i just never know! any way thanks again and speak soon,

roxie and busters mum x

Hi, My lab bitch is fearful of other dogs, mind you shes has come along way, my girl doesn't like it when dogs come bounding up even if the other dog wants to play, she has never bitten another dog but she lunges and barks aggressively towards them,
I always have to be one step a head when walking her, And CALM! (which isn't the easiest!!) i try to avoid too much direct eye contact between dogs like walking towards each other as this is a trigger for my dog, as she sees this as a direct fret, easier said then done though!!
I would definately walk your dogs seperately  as they do learn,  i have to walk my boy seperately as he has the most fab temperment you could wish for.
I take My girl to training, which is great because it's in a controlled enviroment, also get a good dog trainer who will help you on the walks.
My girl will never be a 100 percent, but she has turned a corner now and she is a fantastic dog! but boy it's been a long journey and hard work!!!
Buster is only 11months old, which hopefully with help you can get this sorted before it becomes a learned behaviour as it's harder to change as they get older.
All the best to you and Buster

"Of course he went straight back on his lead and was told off, but i just cant read him, he just does these things, the other day a friend of my sons came in and he is here everyday and he walked into the kitchen and he went for him!!!!!!! "

Dog-on-dog aggression can be controlled; even if that means keeping a dog on lead.  However, everyone seems to have skipped the above comment.

Personally, I do not believe a dog which may be fear-aggressive towards *people*  is suitable for an environment where it will be exposed to children. 

The best chance this dog has of overcoming his fears, both dog & people based, is by continuing contact with them in a controlled manner (ie on a lead). If he were to be shut away from the world, his problems would only get worse.
Of course he should not be left unatended around children & strangers (any dog shouldn't IMO), but without being around children & strangers, he will never learn to behave in the appropriate way around them. This is an adolescent dog, we are all only guessing at these outbursts being fear based, they could be down to any number of things. At his age it's not uncommon for a dog to 'push his boundries' as a teenager would and generally act up.

We all know the importance of socializing our puppies, but it is often overlooked that it is equallly important to continue/restart this socialization through the adolecent period esp. with such a large & powerfull breed that have a guarding instinct. They need a different approach and firm handling (not physical dominace/yelling, but kind & firm direction & consistency).

To the OP - I would be inclined, as Brainless said, to get him to the vets for a health check, including his vision being checked out. Pain/ailments/vision impairment are all things that could cause any dog to be acting defensively/aggresively. In addition to this I would be contacting his breeder re. breed specific advise for the best way forward.

just found a link that me be of some help, I've only quickly scanned through it, but it does look like food for thought:

http://www.msu.edu/~silvar/fear.htm     (managing fear agression)

and another link all about rotties, with some advice on behaviour probs - looks quite interesting :)

http://www.rottweilerrescuetrust.co.uk/dynamic/contents.php?filename=behaviouradvice.htm&PHPSESSID=90c165801f74c86a1dad43bcdecd5e72

the last link also has a phone number for you to talk to them for advice on behaviour probs,

Thank you so much we really appreciate all the advice you have given us, will keep you posted,

roxie and busters mum x

> Dog-on-dog aggression can be controlled; even if that means keeping a dog on lead.  However, everyone seems to have skipped the above comment.
>

I did, and that is why I said it needs a professional to see what is really going on as the method of dealing with the problem will vary, depending on whether it truly is even aggression, rather than inappropriate bolshy play.  If fear based or whatever, or even a health problem.

I would really reccommend getting a behaviourist in now, at 11 months his behaviour can be modified, but being the breed he is it is important that it is done now, as a fully grown rottie that does this sort of thing is no joke as i'm sure you agree.
My springer does a similar sort of thing, he hates entire males and can be very nervy around other dogs too, so i pop him on a lead before the other dog approaches so i can manage his response and offer treats for good behaviour and focusing on me, however some dogs can become more defensive on lead so its a delicate balance. He became a lot worse after castration. I don't think he will ever be 100% but its manageable. Strangely enough, he is absolutely fine when at training, flyball and agility. 

By the way, please don't through stones for your dog.

> We all know the importance of socializing our puppies, but it is often overlooked that it is equallly important to continue/restart this socialization through the adolecent period esp. with such a large & powerfull breed that have a guarding instinct. They need a different approach and firm handling (not physical dominace/yelling, but kind & firm direction & consistency).

Well said mastifflover.  It's lack of early socialisation that was my Soli's downfall - she essentially didn't have any, and from what I was told when I met her, was afraid of strange dogs from day 1 (I'm also told that her litter brother was the same all his life).  It is so very, very important.

But, she has come a long, long way in the short time I've had her - and if she can make such great progress, with zippo socialisation to start with, I'm sure a dog like Buster can be set on the right path.

In case I haven't said it already - or to reiterate if I have - I would keep Buster on lead for now.  Any chance he has to aggress (or play badly, whatever it is he is doing) is a chance to practise that behaviour, and every time he practises it is another quid in the bank for that problem.  That is to say, another notch up the difficulty scale for sorting it out.  But at 11 months old I reckon you'll be okay - after all, Soli was 5 when I got her, and to the best of my knowledge, had been charging at and aggressing at other dogs for all those 5 years!