Hi to all that can help me,
ill give you a quick bref so you know what im yattering about, lol.
i have only had rotties from the day i was born till now, i have never had a small dog ever!!!
however i have been given a 2 year old patterdale and i have no idea what to do with it!!! it has been treated by the previous owner like a doll, its soooo past a pamperd pouch! anyway it has never been trained or disaplined ever! my current dog a rotti has been trained and disaplined and is of a high standard, so what do i do with a patterdale?
anyone have any tips how to train it? it seems to be terrified of everything including its shadow! lol. any particular food, or sleeping habbits?
also, every breed has its ailements such as the rotti with parvo and hip probs, what is the case with patterdales.
i am completly clueless with this breed so any help of info that you can offer would be amazing and id be soooooooooooo gratefull.
is a 2yr old to old to start agin ith training or is he now accustomed to living like a prince???

When you say pampered pooch and treated like a doll - do you mean it wasnt allowed to be a "dog" i.e picked up and carried instead of walked etc? I would say if that is the case then start with the basics and getting dog used to noises/cars/differnt object out on walks etc, then begin with training and build it up. If the dog is scared of everything theres no point in running before you can walk - just gently introduce things the dog perceives as scary (carrier bags for example) and do lots of treats and rewards to build up confidence. If you're rotties are of a high standard in discipline then you obviously know what you're doing. may be worth doing some research on internet or reading up about terrier breeds though. I know the difficultys with letting them off lead and them chasing rabbits and things but dont know too much about the breed. Sorry.  I think with the right research and training programme...and lots more advice from CD'ers you have the potential to have a brilliant dog. At 2 there is still a loit of time to mould this "pampered pooch" into a "disciplined dog" !!!!!

I too am a bit of a beginner with Patterdales:  posted on here a while back - as was offered one, albeit a pupkin & wasn't sure after doing a tad of research into the breed, as have 2 very small kids (4&5 yrs) + the added complication of a very elderly cat (16yrs!)....

However - went ahead & have had our Charlie since he was 7 weeks old - he'll be 14 weeks this coming weekend.

Have to say - he is a complete nutter.  First "small" dog I've ever had too (always stuck to Springers & the like) but I am absolutely gob-smacked that yours seems to be afraid of everything, as mine - even still being a baby - is the complete opposite!  Makes me wonder exactly HOW the previous owners treated it.....

They are originally a working breed - bred to hole out foxes, so they like to dig & have been known to be fiesty enough to get hold of the fox & muller it before the hounds get a look in..... 

So to be honest (& this was my biggest reservation given the kids...) should by nature be fiesty little dogs.... & I have found that to be exactly the case so far with mine, even tho' he's tiny.  At going on 14 weeks - I've had to have a VERY strong hand with him & start "training" almost as soon as I got him & he's still trying to push the limits.....

He already knows to "sit" when told - but have had to install that very quickly, as he was constantly "playing" (well, OK - biting) with anyones' feet/shoes/slippers/trouser legs - so now will leave that to sit - but only as he gets a "treat" when he sits.....  I use the Bakers Complete puppy food as treats - as they are tiny - as also don't want to risk an overweight dog!

To be honest, after having Charlie for almost 2 months now, I would say the "usual" problem with Patterdales is how to calm 'em down - not the other way around....  even when he's out on his walks - he can be a nitemare - he's just interested in anything & everything & not afraid of any of it, almost to the extent of being a pain - takes me 30 mins to do a 10 min walk with him, as he wants to "play" with anyone/thing he sees.... wanted to play with a great dane last week, who I have to say wasn't too impressed, but Charlie wouldn't take "no" for an answer, even though he is TINY.......  - which as I say - brings me back to just how was yours treated before?

Our Charlie certainly responds well to the treat-thing, so might be worth a go with yours.  If it's had no training at all - you need to start asap.  Certainly not the right breed for a "lapdog" & I'm amazed the previous owners seem to've managed to turn your into one.....  (with 2 kids & the dog, most days I can't wait til they're all asleep!)

Sleep/food-wise I can't really comment on, as Charlie is still a baby - but when I 1st got him - he was being fed just on dry food with a "sprinkle" of canned meat apparently....  From day one here - he refused to eat the dried food & is now on canned puppy meat for every meal....on a good day gets through a just a tad less than a tin o food a day + the "treat" biscuits, & rather partial to fish & chicken every now & then (what dog isn't?!)  - sleep-wise, getting less & less - as he is rather active shall we say....  when I 1st had him, he would do the usual puppy-thing of 1 hour play, 3 sleep - but now really only sleeps when the kids go to bed at about 8 through til bout 6-6.30.

All I can add really - is don't be put off by some of the "Patterdale" websites you may come across - most of which are from the US, which make 'em out to be really vicious.  British kennel club only registered them as a breed very recently so there's not a lot about 'em over here at mo'.

But - with the 2 Hoodlums around as well, wouldn't be without our Charlie now.

Post again & add a bit more detail if ya can as to what you know about how he was treated before & how he behaves now....

Will try me best to help as another Patterdale-Mug!

thank you to all you both for the info its helped alot
the dog was treated as a baby shall we say, he has met my rotti in the past an just sat in the corna and peed, thank god for lamanate flooring lol
i  dont know how the previous owner turnrd him in to a coward but he is, hes not very active in the house he loves cuddles which dont bother me to mych as my rotti still tyes to sit on my knee for a cuddle,
the patterdale from what i know has been carries like a hambag dog!!! thats not right.  he not to good on the training he has been used to getting what he wants so my home is a shok to him. my rotti is play full, still in puppy mode i think yet the patterdale just hides in a corner, the pair of em hate the hova and sit growling at it. he sleeps a lot but if you move to fast hes off in the corner, i know he wasnt beaten or anything but he never rearly been in contact with other dogs before so that im working on, he has been let off the lead once and it took my friend over a hour to find him and get him back on his lead, he wont return on comand, he is very much a pamperd pooch he even has a cote incase its cold!!!!
he is good for cuddles but thats it, also he never been around kids but i have my young sisters to stay alot and i dont fancey them having a bit missing off there leg so im leaving them with mom and hopefully introduce them slowley.
as iv never had a small dog i dont know what to expect or how to handle him asim only used to rotties a tiny dog is a bit intimadating if im honest.
iv never met a dog as scared as him! the previous owner was wat work during the day and home late at night so the best he got was a walk round the block, i walk with my rotti for hours so will this be ok for him? my dog has a awkward tummy when it comes to feeding so has things like tuna, chicken or stake with rice or paster and loads of veg for tea and a few tins of dog food for breakfast, the patterdale has been fed scraps and dog food iv never heard off, i love cooking for my dog but will the patterdale be ok with this food? he will have to change his eating as i cant get the food he is used to where i live.
i havent got him yet properly, but will at the weekend and im trying to make the house as friendly as poss for him so he not so scared. unfortuanately we dont have toys for dogs in the house as the rotti has a record speed for demolishing them so we have a frisbe and lots of bones for him to chew, is there anything particular good for a patterdale? and will he be ok with the bones?
i hope i can train him well, im currently training my rotti in agillity and hoping for crufts in a few years. maybe the patterdale will join us!!
the patterdale is not house trained well, so i have puppy pads to put down, when he goes in the house he dont get told off as such just a dont do that baby in a soft voice, and he dont let you know when he needs to go he dont seem to have a way of showing when he needt to go the little boys room.
also he has not been nutered, which is of no problem to me but having a boy rotti and boy patterdale do you think this may cause problems?
im hoping the patterdale will whatch the rotti and learn quicker but it may be wishfull thinking.
i need help

Cant answer all your questions but heres my advice for a few:
Have you considered getting a cage/crate for the patterdale? It may be nice for him to have somewhere to go and escape if he finds your rottie too much at times and also dogs feel safe and secure in a crate (for short times obviously) You dont neccesarily have to shut the door but it is an option for you to consider. i think they are a godsend.
The crate could also be used when you have the children around. The patterdale would be able to see and smell them and you could begin short introductions at intervals.
With regards to the toilet training i would say try and take the dog out as much as you can to go toilet outside. Puppy pads are OK when dogs are small and are too young to have bladder control. Your patterdale is at an age where he can control his bladder, just hasnt been taught to use it. Encouraging him to ue the pads inside could unfortunately be making a rod for your own back :-)
If he isnt good off lead then use a long lead and if you know people with friendly dogs try to arrange to meet them to let the patterdale get used to other (friendly) dogs and he will soon learn how to behave around them.
Use gentle introductions to everything to get him used to them. Being scared of Crowds of people/noises/sounds etc can be overcome but will just take time and patience.
There is a tendancy with small dogs to pick them up and reassure them but that is what has made him scared of so much, becuase he hasnt been allowed to deal with things himself, and if his previous owner did that then he believes it must be really scary if he wasnt allowed to confront it. Just treat him like your rottie (you wouldnt pick a rottie up!!) and let him get used to things and he will soon (hopefully) come to learn that these things arent that bad.
I would still advise to buy a book on terriers or patterdales and do some research on internet as they are a very different breed to rotties and you could learn some useful information with regards to how their genetics determines their behaviour.
Gentle introductions to things, lots of rewards and treats and going back to basics (treat him the same as you would a puppy) and im sure you will turn that scared dog into a little cracker!!!
Good Luck
x
Im sure lots more people will be along with some more advice soon.

thank you for that info.
i have been on the net for ages but its not great at telling me what i need, there are a lot of cute pictures tho lol
any help on maybe some net sites, iv been the library and ther is hardly anything on this breed, i know they not a reconised breed but still some of us need help lol
xx

www.patterdale-terrier.co.uk

have you tried this site - it has a forum which could be helpful???

Hmmmm, think maybe the biggest clue here with this dog, is the fact that he's just been left alone too long during the day/evening.  If he's had virtually no contact with anyone/thing/other dogs - not too surprised he doesn't know how to react now & is scared of everything.  Only time mine is left is for about half an hour in the morn when I'm doing the skool run (incorporate his walk in the aftn to go get the kids) & when I do me food shopping!

Think you're gonna have to virtually start from scratch with all aspects of training & treat him like a puppy.

I'd start with getting him used to your dog as a priority - & yep, the cage-idea might not be a bad one, so he has somewhere to go if needs be..... I wouldn't shut the door to it at all tho' :- a) so the dog can get in it whenever he wants but b) if you shut him away from your dog, they're not gonna get used to one another.

Walk-wise, I'd ease him in gently to begin with. As I said, mine is coming up for 14 weeks - & I walk him every day for at least an hour, but he's also out in the garden all morning/afternoon & runs riot, so he gets more than enough exercise.  If this one isn't used to being walked, you're gonna have to build it up graduallly & I would say - take him out from the start with your other dog so they get used to walking together - even if it means you're out for half an hour & have to take him home before carrying on the walk with the Rotti.....  gonna be a pain.

Food-wise, would suggest you ask your friend for a supply of the food she is giving him at the mo' - (if you're taking him on for her - least she can do!) so you can wean him off it & onto what you wanna feed it.  For the 1st day give him what he's been used to, then start mixing it with the food you want to feed him on gradually over about 5-7 days until he's on what you give the Rotti.  Think my Charlie would lurv to get chicken etc every day (!) - so can't see a prob, but (sounds obvious I know) - just bear in mind how much smaller he is & watch the weight aspect!  Charlie has actually quite surprised me on the food-front:  for a Littley, he does eat quite a bit, but there are intended to be quite stocky/muscular dogs even tho' they're small.  No idea about the bones - as obv haven't tried that with Charlie yet, but don't see why not for an adult dog.

If the Rotti isn't gonna demolish it - I would really recommend some sort of "pully-chewy" toy - but there again, if this one's not used to all that, might be an option to go without if you can.... Charlie is into chewing anything & everthing that has a "tug" on the end of it - guess that's the Terrier coming out.

Mine has been crap at toilet raining so far (pardon the pun.....) I also have the training mats, by the back door - with the intention of progressing to the garden, but so far he'll even come in from the garden to pee on the floor then go back out again!  Have to say - he always "goes" by a door, so he gets the idea he has to by a door - just not sure which door as yet (front room/dining room/ back door - all the same to him!)  I shut him in the kitchen overnight or when I'm out - & he successfully uses the mat everytime then.  I'm starting to get quite firm with him now tho' - everytime he goes where he shouldn't - he gets shown it & I put him on the mat.  If he goes on the mat - he gets a treat.  (But I agree - TG for laminate - have it all over my house & boy am I glad!!!!)

That really seems to be working with him too - the reward thing everytime he does something I want him to do.  Might be worth a go with yours.  Charlie is really responding well to it.  He'll even "sit" for the kids now....

No idea if the neutering, or lack of it. will cause a problem - but by the sounds of it - I don't think this little chappy will be questioning his "pecking order" with your Rotti!

Just seems such a shame that this dog has been turned into a complete woose, as that's not what the breed is about at all!  I chose Charlie cos I knew I couldn't have a bigger dog due to circumstances, but also really didn't want a "yappy little lap-dog".  He may well learn some lessons from yours - I've purposely taken mine to my parents regularly to meet their 2 Springers - just so he "gets told off" by them & starts to see "how to behave"....

How does the Rotti react to him when he's there?

PS: just had a quick look at the site recommended:  www.patterdale-terrier.co.uk - this site is for working Patterdales.....  so not sure how much use it'll be for pets.

Some good advice Ali but i wouldnt recommend walking a 14 week old puppy for an hour a day plus giving physical and mental stimulation at home.
Just a heads up - the majority of people go with the rule of 5 minutes walk per day for every month of their life. You should be walking yours for about 15-20 minutes a day to prevent causing damage to muscles/bones/joints
:-)

> British kennel club only registered them as a breed very recently so there's not a lot about 'em over here at mo'.
>

As you will see from thsi list on the KC website http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/4 The Patterdale is not a breed recognised by the Kennel Club.  They are bred for working as a hunting terrier.

wow you guys this info is helping loads
as for my rotti, he may be good with disaplin and what not but is daft as a brush, last time he saw the patterdale he sniffed it to say hello and went back to sleep and the patterdale peed!!!
i cant beleve ill be getting him soon, im thinking once i have he major comands masterd and he can hold his bladder im going to start with other training, if the rotti can go to crufts then the littleun can as well, i love dogs everyone of em so taking them in is no problem but im not the greates enciclopedia on all dogs lol
i have the toy and bone basket on floor level but i think i may have to invest in smaller toys my rotty has a bone toy bout the size of the patterdale!!!!!! and i have always got treats, if i didnt the rotti wud be giving me evils all day lol
the rotti is my baby and he does get pamperd but not tho the extent the patterdale has, i never used to puck him up coz i no how big they get and heavy but still he has legs! and he has a tendency to get in a bubble bath u just run for urdself when not looking lol but he is good and only shakes out side lol.
please have all of your fingers crossed for me when the newest addition arrives its sounds it gunna be tough lol
xx

No worries Freds mum: when I say an hour, prob over half of that is spent sniffing & finding things... roughly actually "walks" for about 20-30mins!!!!!!!!!!!  Should have said we're "out" for an hour or so" !!!!!!!!!!!!!! (1 step forward, 4 back!)   Lucky enough to have a really good vet - who's given some excellent advice & lurvs Charlie, as also has a Patterdale!

He met my friends Old English Sheepdog pup 2day - who's 2 weeks younger than him & about 3 times the size!......  Bit of an insight to the Patterdales:  Charlie as usual went mad to play - until the other "pup" showed him who was boss......  then Charlie was rather submissive shall we say: until the other pup turned her back.... Charlie right on one again!  Cheeky Terriers...........

Should be interesting tomorrow - friend's bringing her Jack Russell pup over, bout a month older than our C....  = 5 kids + 2 terriers..... hmmmmmm

To respond to one of the other posts, & this is only as far as I know, the British Kennel Club very, very  recently added the Patterdale.... not that it matters much to me!

Most of the info you can find on the web tho' relates to the working breed - which is v different to having one as a pet.....  & some of the photos on the sites are rather worrying as the US seem to make 'em out to be a rather vicious breed..... guess that's the US for ya!

Getting back to the original post - best o luck this weekend hon, I'm sure it'll work out OK in the end.  Keep us posted!

> To respond to one of the other posts, & this is only as far as I know, the British Kennel Club very, very recently added the Patterdale.... not that it matters much to me!
>

There certainly has been no announcement and nothing about it has been included on the Kennel Club website.  Perhaps there are only initial moves between eh kennel club and breed clubs to recognise the breed?

Anyone???

if the rotti can go to crufts then the littleun can as well
the British Kennel Club very, very  recently added the Patterdale

No it can't, and no they haven't. The Patterdale is recognised by the UKC and ARBA in the US, but NOT - and almost certainly NEVER WILL BE - by the British KC.

Patterdales are bred to be working terriers. That doesn't mean they should be hell-raising maniacs, in fact my two are the sweetest dogs you could ever meet! But you do have to be VERY consistent with their training. They will push you every inch of the way if they think they can get away with it - and they are very intelligent. Very quick to learn, and they need some sort of outlet for their energy. If they aren't worked, they should do obedience or agility to exercise their brains as well as their muscles. Fine with cats and children as long as they are introduced to cats whilst young - and the kids are sensible and know how to behave with dogs!