I'm after a bit of advice here, sorry the post below is a bit long, but I wanted to give a full picture...

Stitch is 4 1/2 years old, Border Terrier x pprobably Parsons Russell, castrated and generally well behaved. I've owend him since he was 8 weeks.

Some of you might know that Stitch is a bit 'off' with other dogs, partly due to socialisation probs as a pup (entirely my fault) and also through being attacked by a loose dog when out on a walk when he was about 8 months old. We wnt to puppy classes at a local training club when I first had him and their idea of puppy socialisation was to let all of the pups from 12 weeks to 12 months loose together in a hall - Stitch was very intimidated by this as there was quite a bit of rough play. At the time, I only knew 1 other person with a dog, and couldn't find another local class, so he didn't get much good socialisation as a pup. (I wish I knew then what I know now becasue I would have pulled out all the stops to get him well socialised)

We now go to a different club and he enjoys that and is 'OK' with the other dogs there that he knows. I say 'OK' because he will only tolerate dogs approaching him slowly, or if he can approach them first. If they come at him quickly or lunge at him he immediately goes into 'attack or be attacked' mode and will snap at other dogs. I believe the only reason he has never made contact is because luckily I can manage to predict most of these situations and remove him before he has a chance.

Anyway, on Sunday I was out on a walk through some fields with Stitch on a long flexilead when a dog came rushing out of the hedge and literally jumped on him wanting to play. I nearly jumped out of my skin and so did Stitch. He started to snap at the dog and as it wouldn't back off and I didn't react quickly enough, made contact and bit the dog, not drawing blood or causing injury that I could see. The dogs owners followed through the hedge after it and started yelling at me for having an agressive dog loose in public. I pointed out to them that he was merely defending himself and he wasn't loose, but was on a lead, but they just kept ranting at me, telling me he should be muzzled.

I have spoken to my trainer, who says that because his aggression is fear based (which we knew) and that she feels we have it well under control, but obviously can't predict the  odd loose uncontrolled dogs on walks, so maybe it would be better to muzzle hime for walks, but not in training as he is coming along well with his tolerance of 'known' dogs.

Anyway, I wanted to get other people's views on this, he is always walked on a lead in public, I am lucky to have a private well fenced field to let him off for a run (with no chance of other dogs). A lot of our walks, especially at weekends are through fields and footpaths off the road and well away from any busy areas, in fact, this was the 1st time in about 10 walks on this particualr route I have even encountered anyone else with a dog. So... to get to the point, should I muzzle him at all times when out or not???

Soory about the essay!!:-)

Claire

>The dogs owners followed through the hedge after it and started yelling at me for having an agressive dog loose in public. I pointed out to them that he was merely defending himself and he wasn't loose, but was on a lead, but they just kept ranting at me, telling me he should be muzzled.

Hm of course it wouldn't have happened if their dog had been well behaved & under control would it & I'm glad you responded

I wouldn't muzzle him, he did not attack the the other dog, it came to him out of control & he responded. Muzzling a dog can in some instances worsened the problem. Your dog was on lead & under control until the other dog encroached on your dog's space

I agree with the above, your dog defended itself, as the other dog attacked him, and wouldn't back off when told.

In this situation muzzling would be a negative I feel as he would be left unable to defend himself, and that dogs owner can take a hike and not blame other people for his dogs actions.

It's like blaming the bully for his victim defending himself.

I'm no expert but it does seem unfair that your dog should be muzzled just because someone else doesn't control their dog.

I imagine the other owner had a go at you so as to put you off pointing that out.

If I was the other dog owner I'd have been mortified

Ditto everyone else Claire :)  I wouldn't muzzle him - you know his temperament better than anyone and are working well with it by the sound of things so you're being responsible and not in any way to blame if someone else's dog behaves as described and doesn't have the sense to take a warning! 

I've had youngsters in the past that would suddenly career off when I thought I'd mastered the (as much as can be predicted) perfect recall but they had the sense to stay away from dogs on leads thankfully - however had they got themselves in trouble it would have been my fault for their lack of control (and in part their own for not reading the signals of another dog correctly).

Some dogs sadly do need to be muzzled in public but it doesn't sound at all as though Stitch falls into that category :)

Good luck with his ongoing training and well done for being so caring too.
best wishes, Teri  

I agree with the others, And I would not muzzle him. I dont feel the other dog owner should have been angry as his dog surprised yours, and was not on a lead.  For your own sanity however I would use the flexilead maybe in the centre of an arealike a park or field, where you have a good view around you, and can see any dog that is heading towards you. This may mean that you are more prepared, and less taken aback.   I suspect your dog picked up on the fact that you were somewhat startled and scared.

No, it's  not his fault, don't muzzle him. I've nothing against muzzles, but they should be for the instigator. Your dog was on the lead.

Your dog snapped in self defense, IMO he's done nothing wrong :)

No, it's  not his fault, don't muzzle him. I've nothing against muzzles, but they should be for the instigator. Your dog was on the lead.

Your dog snapped in self defense, IMO he's done nothing wrong :)

Nope, why should you muzzle him,  YOU! where the responsible dog owner...  whos`s dog was on alead and under control???? YOURS!!!!!!

The owner of the other dog needs to open his eyes....I wonder how many times he has used that sentance """  your dog attacked mine"""   before the penny drops,.... If his dog was under control, others would not attack it.

I tried a muzzle with my girl, and she was attacked while she was wearing it, she was on her flexi.... so I  refuse to use one now.

Hi

I am a believer that muzzles can be useful tools and in fact had a dog that I had to muzzle around people but not around dogs.  I agree with all the others I dont think your dog should be muzzled he didnt do anything wrong.

When i was first having problems with dog to dog fear aggression a lady on this site very kindly recommended this book  :_


On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas

I found it really helpful and it really helped me get my dog over the fear agression it may be worth you having a read

good luck

claire, if I was in your situation it would not be stitch who had to be muzzled - it would be me!  My dog is similar to yours and won't start fights but will always be defensive if another dog growls/barks/runs at her or even gives her the evil eye lol.  Like yourself I can generally intercept things as I am aware of the signs but so many people think their out of control/sight/reach dogs are the innocent party.  I have told owners in the past that their rude, ill mannered dog is in serious need of training.  Grrr.

Anyway I believe you did the right thing but personally wouldn't advocate a muzzle as the poor wee man might get even more defensive.

Thanks everyone for your replies, I was thinking pretty much the same thing, but wanted to see how other people felt.

I think Stitch's fear agression might be made worse if he felt he was unable to defend himself at all if needed. I also don't fancy doing a walk like we did on Sunday (4 miles off road through mud, brambles and cow poo!!!) with him muzzled 'just in case' - he likes to pick up the tasty cow poo for a start (we need the 'roll eyes' smiley back)

>if I was in your situation it would not be stitch who had to be muzzled - it would be me!<

That would normally be the case with me too :-D except I was so surprised I just stood there with my mouth open.

We'll carry on working on his tolerance of other dogs and hopefully the really out of control ones we meet will be few and far between. Most people usually shout 'it's ok my dog's friendly' when they run over to us, which at least gives me a chance to shout back 'well mine's not!'

Claire :-)