We are just about to buy a puppy to show but we are worried about his top lip being pink and wonderd if it is a fault or does it change colour over time?

Thxs

Hello,
It depends on how much and how old the pup is.
Pigment comes in over time but it's probably difficult for me to give you an answer without seeing the pup.This may seem silly but if you look up the pups nostrils in good light if it glows pink then it's not good news.
The simple answer is probably dont buy because, although it may come in, it may take years and the best bit about showing is with puppies IMO.
The Boxer is a head breed so when the judge makes their final choice it will almost always be on the dogs head. A big pink lip is a huge turn off. 

Hi ive added a pic

Think pic was taken when about 3 weeks

Thxs

http://i30.tinypic.com/14wep83.jpg

how old was the pup when this photo was taken it looks like it was about 5 weeks old to me at the time of the photo

Maybe i dont really know

of the pup was about 5 weeks old when the photo was taken it looks perfectly normal to me

Oh ok

So do u think it will colour up?

the only thing i would say is the pup looks very plain for showing.
but plain ones do win but they have to be superb quality as the flasly ones seam to do better in the ring.
just my oppion from 20 odd years of showing boxers.

Oh ok

Plain?

Can u explain im new into this

Thxs

Yes I agree, the least of his worries is the pink lip, which incidentley I think will probably colour in,it's more that the puppy has insufficient white markings,well placed on the face.The pup will probabaly lose every white hair on it's face and become totally black-faced.

Now if you were well known in the breed you might just get away with it but if you're new the judge will walk past your 'plain' puppy.
I'm not saying it's right or fair but just the way it is.

You pretty well know ay birth which puppies to discount from a boxer litter destined for the show ring. The plains are sold as pets and I suspect whoever you buying it from is not an experienced exhibitor.
Boxers are a funny old breed, it's almost unheard of to get a pet bred, pet marked puppy and go out and win with it so if you are serious about showing - you want one marked like the one in the right hand corner of this post, she's by a champion dog out of a big winning bitch and beautifully marked.  It's hard enough to start in a breed with giving yourself a ready made handicap.
I suspect that the pup also has very short socks or just white feet, you really would be fighting a losing battle with that, they dont come much plainer.
If you look on ukboxerdogs.co.uk you will see every champion for the last few decades and since the 60's you will not find a single plain one. I'm not suggesting that you expect a champion but if these top kennels have to show only flashy dogs them what chance have newbies got?

I agree with you tooolz very good post

It's worth remembering that the 'plain' boxers, if otherwise good examples of the breed, are the best for breeding with 'flashy' boxers. To minimise the risk of mismarks and deafness, geneticists say that two 'flashies' should never be bred together, but only to a 'plain'.

Ditto JG and valid point. I was always told that a really good plain red bitch was a bar gold to a new kennel.

I have only every had boxers as pets but the 3 I have had over 20 years always have been just about solid with little markings. The overly flashy dont do it for me but do understand they stand out in the ring.

Great advice for the next step- ie breeding ( if that's what the OP wants to do) but doesn't help a newbie on starting in the showring. If the OP buys this pup he/she better have a big house because they will soon need to get a flashy one.
By the way I've mated flashy to flashy repeatedly for nearly 30 years ( and using a geneticist's dogs twice) and hardly ever had white puppies and only once had a deaf one.There are some stud dogs that have been known to throw a dis-proportionate number of white and some that rarely do, unfortunately sometimes you have to use them to find out!!. The one third white rule (as per standard), helps weed out over marked stock - full white stockings, collar and belly are ok for the showring but are risking it in a breeding animal.

yip your right toolz, it is a toughy I guess with colours.   I was more basing my comments on the fact most peoples first show pup is what gets them on their feet, handling , training just learning about the breed , quite often it is either then off spring or a 2nd buy that you start having your success but your right if you want a winner and a novice flashing is better :-)

I hate the fact colour plays such a part. BTW I watched judging at SKC now I can't remember if it was last May or the year before ( think the year before) and a lot of winners had less colour and I thought it was pleasant to see.

I am bias I guess as I prefer them quite solid I hate white on the mask. :-) 

Looking at the photo the pink lip as described will change and like tooolz said the white markings on the face will tighten up. 

It's worth remembering that the 'plain' boxers, if otherwise good examples of the breed, are the best for breeding with 'flashy' boxers

And conversly showing a flashy bitch then finding a less flashy stud dog ( at a later date) would probably be the best all round.

I know we are discussing this pup but if you chose not to have this one ( and please see my comments on big house) then search out a really well bred one from a successful exhibitor. That way you will give yourself the best chance.
Definition of really well bred ( open to opinion):
Father at least has a winning father preferably mother too and has won himself- not essential but good.
Mother good example, pref. a winner but if not the owner should know what's wrong with her and aimed at improve on her.Must have reconisable show winners up close behind her on her pedigree. Relevent health checks, with certificates shown, are essential or could set your plans back years.
Not "has champions in her pedigree" (so do crossbreeds) this does not guarantee quality.
A flashy puppy wont necessarily win but a good flashy puppy will  - in anyone's hands and in boxers I really mean that.I've seen it time and time again.

:-D :-D Tooolz.

To the original poster it may be worth considering one at around 6-12 months for showing as it is a bit older.

I am bias I guess as I prefer them quite solid I hate white on the mask

heh Blue, you callin' ma dog ugly?  Hee hee hee  :-)
Poor Mrs Mills ......    Me ( and a great many other people) think she's gorgeousssssss :-)   :-)
I don't like the colour of your WHW on your avatar... that'll  need a load of chalk :-)

Lo sorry I should have said I hate speckling on the mask as that is actually what I meant :-) I don't mind solid bits just the speckles :-)) prefer black in mouth area :-)

chalk what is chalk ;-)

BTW I watched judging at SKC now I can't remember if it was last May or the year before ( think the year before) and a lot of winners had less colour and I thought it was pleasant to see.
Yes I was there too (I think).... yes I know..... I don't do dog shows ;-)
I saw a fab brindle bitch who was not very flashy but enough, well handled and she won her class. Thought Jenny T had a real find there and see that the bitch has just been made up (O. Rosina Jones I believe she's called.)

I wondered why the breeders I got my pup from only had flashy boxers (including past dogs as well)!!  Not into showing so didn't realise they were the more likely to be successful.

Does red or brindle make a difference then success wise (just incase OP chooses a different pup)?

Mine is all white so MEGA flashy LOL!!

Mine is all white so MEGA flashy LOL!!
And rather gorgeous too Georgepig !!

You used to get judges who much prefered one colour to another and you could tell by looking around the benches at a show which one. One dear departed judge loved his reds and could be guaranteed to put them above an equal brindle but not so much today.
All rounders are rather partial to a big red one though :-)

I would love to have shown mine over the years and was always going to so always bought " show potential" but  I wouldn't be a pretty sight running round the ring, I am bad enough walking round with my littles ones :-)   AND it is bad enough showing one breed without getting dragged into another group :-)  so she is ruined at home.   she will be my last I think as don't like them with the tails :-)  she is just over 2 1/2 so will be around for a long while yet.

Yeh.. no tails for me now Blue.
Just cant face it ...plus I've really downsized into Cavs.....much easier to walk around in a ladylike fashion instead of huffin' and puffin' :-)
Although...... I've got a lovely black brindle bitch who will be 7 this June, hated showing as a youngster ( had a face like bad fat!!).....but now ....... oooh I am tempted.

:-)  :-D

Can some boxer guru please PM who you think are the 'better' breeders to get a boxer from?

I was really happy with where I got mine from and his temperament is second to none but it's all part of the research as you never know what might happen in the future. 

tooolz thxs 4 ur comments i see what u mean by the flashy markings now

Thxs 4 everyones posts

Well the familys set on getting him now so i guess showing isnt 4 us just yet maybe when we get a bigger house lol

Were just going to be happy with him

Flashy or not

Awww - you'll have a great time.  They are the best of dogs (not biased in any way at all).
Good luck and the time until you pick him up will fly by.
Just need to choose a name now.....

Yeah names not easy either lol

Flashy or not, I'm sure he will be well loved.  Hope your family has lots of fun over the years with the little guy.
Let us all know how things get on.

yeah I rather guessed that might be the case...... once you'd set eyes on him it's love at first sight..... no cure I'm afraid.
Good luck and try some fun shows then some local open show with the pup, great practice for when you get the big house!!

Have a lovely time with your new baby.

Heh Georgepig,

Looks like you'll be getting a bigger house soon too !! :-)

I learned through experience... my first boxer was from an ad in the paper, he's gorgeous, not quite there on the breed standard, but has a personality to die for. My second came via recommendation from someone in the breed, she's lovely - I chose with my heart, not my head though, but as I wasn't into showing it really doesn't matter.
I went about getting my new pup by getting in touch with my local boxer club - I have had so much support from all corners, it's great. They helped me find a good breeder, who shows with great success, and now that we're doing the rallies (not shown yet, she's only 4 months), I'm getting so much support and encouragement from her breeder, and as a beginner myself, it's invaluable.

Just my  experience... :)

Tooolz - maybe when (not if!) I win the lottery.  Two dogs at the mo is plenty racing around the place and trying to beat me down the stairs

Ooooh but that boxer puppy face.........

http://www.ukboxerdogs.co.uk/britchamp3969.html shows that a lot of the early champions were plain or fairly plain (i rather like them that way, but I have a solid coloured breed, where white markings are a fault. :D

It is a shame that this fashion has taken over, as of course it means far more whites being produced.

If plain and flashy had equal chance in the ring then people would breed flashy to plain for preference and you would hardly get any whites with the worry of deafness.

Is it true that in Europe they haven't got this thing about flashy markings and far more plain dogs are shown?

Totally off topic met a 9 week old bobtail yesterday.  You can tell that it is a natural bobtail from the feel of the tail with it's little fat pad.  this one isn't destined for showing, but for Obedience, but the owner just couldn't bear to have one with a full long tail.

She just lost her 15 1/2 year old Spaniel cross and her Boxer boy of 10 was pining away.

Not sure if I can show this link for colour only..  ( I have no connection to it so will like it anyway ) :-)

http://www.marbeltonboxers.co.uk/OUR-BOXER-CHAMPIONS

My bitch is almost identically marked as her father and half brother.  2nd from bottom Chaser and 3rd from bottom Middlin..  Real red like her father though.  I prefer the rich red as apposed the darker browny red to. :-)   Fussy Mo..

Funny a lot of this particular kennel are quite dark.

Does anyone know if I can link to a photo bucket to show the colour of a dog ? Can't keep up with the rules ;-) 

ooh they were lovely blue!

Blue,
Look at all that white on their face...........:-)

Brainless,
The USA is the best place to show 'plain' boxers. They don't mind black faces at all but they do like their white legs though!!

> Blue,
> Look at all that white on their face...........:-)

lol, i see what blue ment though... in my breed white (except for a small amount on the chest) is a fault- on the face is a huge no no!

Funny a lot of this particular kennel are quite dark

And their black mask comes up over their eyes in many cases.
Dutch and German breeding.

Just so I know what would we describe that as quite plain or flashy?

I sent you a link to photo of my girl.

My last boxer she was born in the late 80s not here now. I have a photo of here, she has black face completely even over the eyes only tiny white on the chin. She was mostly Walkon breeding.  I prefer the head type on the bitch I have now which and on others in that kennel definately has quite a bit of foreign stuff.  Funny Tooolz as God looks down I   never get slobbers from this bitch ever.. I did my other. 

Sorry no real head shot but have a look at the colour here

http://s224.photobucket.com/albums/dd218/preidie/

I class this a pretty sold BUT Tooolz or some of the other Boxer exhibitors are more expereinced in the breed so can give us the marking grouping.

Beautiful bitch - not plain - too good to be just a pet - get her out there girl.
I spy yet another funny coloured WHW..... something in the water up your way.;-)

Seriously though, a lovely, well made bitch.

far from plain. A very nice red bitch. 

Firstly I must apoligise for my terrible typing.  It is typing not lack of education :-) honestly ..

Honey has more white that my last boxer but still alway regarded her as quite plain.. shows what I know ;-)

too good to be just a pet  You know you'll get hung for that one on here ;-) :-D I say it all the time and get beaten up  :-D 

I use my boxer as an example really to puppy hunters and how to reinforce they way you should buy your family pets,  she was bought really as a pet I paid really good money for her but to me she is a well bred, lovely quality, beautiful natured dog.  It is how any puppy hunter should search out and buy from reputable breeders because generally even the stock they are letting go are of reasonable quality.

Mind you truth be told I went actually to buy her mother who was darker in colour , whilst standing in the kitchen in come a bounding youngster who wasn't for sale,  I begged to buy her and home she came.  

Now where is that chalk :-D :-D

PS The wee mini is my sisters dog who loves to chew other dogs legs :-)

You know you'll get hung for that one

Yes but I did say "too good to be just a pet"  That means she can have it all.... cant argue with that :-)

I entirely agree with you about buying good looking, quality dogs as pets. Lovely to look at every day and if ever the notion to show comes upon you - you wont be disappointed.

I think although the pup in the pic, is lovely,  the pink lip will sort itself out... but unfortunately as has been said before  if you are after a show Boxer,   that little cutie will not be up to standard..he is classed as "solid"  and although there are solid classes (not so many these days ) you will be fighting a loosing battle with h/him in the show ring.

The Continent is the best place if you want to see Solids in the ring.  The US ,  they like far to much white on a dog for my liking.

As a matter of interest ,  did you stipulate you wanted a show prospect , when you spoke to the breeder of these pups.because if you did and that pup is what she picked for you...sadly they are not very knowledgeable in the world of Boxers and the show ring.

I think yo have already been given plenty of advice from some of the Boxer folk on here.

I see someone has posted a good link for you,   go there and have a look round,  have a look at some of the Champions,  you will see what is classed as  a good show prospect .(markings wise)

Then it is down to colour, are you a red or brindle person  (me I am a brindle person)  and to be honest, getting a good show "red"  prospect  at the moment is like looking for rocking horse poo!!!

There are a few kennels who specialize in "reds"  and there are  a some fab ones in the ring at the moment.....(one I am hedging my bets on for crufts) but they are few and far between... a red has to be outstanding   to do well in the ring.

Just look at the successful dogs in the ring now,  most are brindle.

If you consider an older dog, remember you will be getting a "reject" (not the right word)  from a breeder, one who they have run on, and has not made their expectations... for a good show dog....this does not mean, you will not have fun in the ring with said dog,   it will be good enough for a novice to start with.

Go to UKBOXERDOGS, some good reputable breeders there, remember health testings.... it is important, dont listen to anyone who tells you , they dont have health problems in their dogs.... you want proof....and sadly even some of our known kennels dont heart score their dogs.

If you want PM me...  I may be able to  help...if not I will know some one who will.