Just heard Ben Fogle on the Jonathan Ross show this morning got me so mad I had to turn it off.!!.
He said that at Discover Dogs there are breeds not recognised by the Kennel Club, Labradoodles, Cockerpoo, Puggles etc and Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers. Well after laughing at the name, JR asked him what a NSDTR looked like and Ben Fogle replied well, its got a curly coat,.!!.
It gets worse cos then Ben Fogle said on Thursday it  is the  Toy and Utility group, so these are the handbag dogs a la Paris Hilton, well I would like to see him try and put a Dalmatian or Kesshond for example in a handbag. He is so ignorant of the breeds and seems to have learnt nothing since he started doing the programme 2/3 years ago.
Oh well rant over.
Anna

Sounds like he is in danger of bringing the breeding and showing of pedigree dogs into disrepute with his ignorance :(

What I really can't understand is why the BBC and Crufts are allowing this ignorance to be publicised and broadcast    Surely the whole point of screening the Crufts programmes is to inform and entertain the public?   But they are being woefully misinformed by this numpty :( :( :(

That is so annoying, Ben Fogle needs to study on dogs before being allowed to present a popular dog show on TV.

I will be watching Crufts on the TV but will have to mute the telly when Ben Fogle opens his mouth! :(
Maybe we could all complain to the BBC about it and they may think twice before deciding to get him to present Crufts again!

Oh what a twit he is! *rolls eyes* (how I miss that)
Good idea complaining, but would they listen I wonder?

I cant believe he knows so little!

Especially as you think he'd have learnt a thing or two from his father and after a few years of presenting crufts. I suppose the beeb think he 'brings abit of light-heartedness' to the show, but its more like half-heartedness! He really should research more if hes to stay on fronting the show coverage.

well I would like to see him try and put a Dalmatian or Kesshond for example in a handbag.

LOL ~ maybe they fit in HIS handbag though..  ;)

What a shame that he's not doing the Cani-Cross bit I would love for him to say "ohhh look at your Labradoodle" and then I'd give him a few home truths!.  He was the one that said due to their hybrid vigour that they won't have the health problems that pedigrees do, oh yeah, is that why their worst hipscore is double my breeds worst and double the Poodle's but almost as bad as the Lab's worst score!

i heard it too and was cringing at every word!........he was also on the Alan Tichmarch show last week where he introduced a chap whith his dog [ a sort of blind date thingy] to the girl choosing as " this is .... with his bassett hound"....a chap came out with a little furry mutt under his arm......nothing was said.........after introducing 2 more chaps......not a bassett in sight so hardly a script error.....he MUST be stopped he is making a mockery of it all!
Pauline

Well he did mention Cani- Cross so dont know whether he is going to take part as I was getting so annoyed with him by then, that I had stopped listening.!!.
Also aplogies to Keeshond owners for typo in my original posting.
Anna

ok, just emailed BBC complaints!

Dear Sir/Madam As a dog enthusiast and regular viewer of your annual Crufts coverage I would like to register a complaint with you regarding your chosen presenter, Ben Fogle. May I ask why you continue to opt to have this man present the show? He, I am sorry to bluntly say, knows very little about dogs and seems to actively undermine the very spirit of the show. He frequently makes ludicrous mistakes in the identification of certain breeds, provides inaccurate information on the health of cross breeds to the unsuspecting public and generally makes a mockery of something many people take seriously...

and so on. advised that they have a look at some of the threads on him to see i am not alone!

get to emailing people! if we all speak up surely it can only improve!

Tollers aren't recognised by the KC?!  Probably shouldn't have shown mine at Crufts last year then??  Oops, my mistake lol!!

I think he's very pretty to look at, and wouldnt mind him just sitting in the background, maybe cuddling one of those unrecognised tollers, or with an Akita in a handbag, but he really should not have any "presenter" sections in the Crufts coverage, it really does make me cringe when he comes out with these sorts of comments.  Dog Showing isn't exactly the "coolest" of hobbies and his complete lack of knowlegde only makes the dog showing world sound ridiculous to those who otherwise might be interested in it!!

Oh Joy !!!

The chap has his own website   www.benfogle.com

Anyone fancy telling him how they feel? Maybe he thinks we all love his style of presentation. Probably just another job.

This is getting ridiculous. I have sent an email of complaint.

great stuff.

guys if you go to the bbc website and search complaint it gives you the option to email them.

He hasn't walked around Discovering dogs section then.  The Toller was one of the dogs I fancied for a while - along with a Koikerhund (spelling?)  I learnt so much from my visit I must thank all those folks who sit patiently all day and let piles of children and dog starved (as I was then) folks like myself pat their dogs and ask ridiculous questions.  If anyone says things like 'such and such a breed is nasty don't get one of those' - I say go to Discovering dogs and see what properly bred and trained dogs are like.  I have only been to Crufts once in my life (Discovering Dogs in London also once) but I think it is an amazing show that the television is not getting the real atmosphere of these days.  I got the urge to do flyball, obedience and agility from watching past years shows.  - I have ended up doing agility.  What did last years Crufts coverage do for the viewers I wonder??? 

Gordon Bennett. I'd like to see the KC allowing those mongrels into DD!!!! Not very likely to happen, is it. And Tollers being curly coated?! He's beyond words.

Good Grief. It'd probably be in his best interests if the dopey twit spends all of Crufts in his little goldfish bowl otherwise he may need bodyguards.... :-)

> What did last years Crufts coverage do for the viewers I wonder??? 

convinced me to go to the actual show and avoid such awful coverage ;)

I am sky plus it! i then can fast forward him! God is makes me mad! so anoying its untrue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Need a new presenter

I have just emailed a complaint to BBC website re this radio show, dont know if it will do any good but made me feel better.
Heaven help us when he actually starts the TV coverage.
Anna

Sounds awful - hey, we've got Sky plus now, I can fast forward him too!!!

How many of you listened to the show? I did and thought it was just a light hearted interview with JR asking the usual sort of JR questions .. and BF didn't want to say anything about the toy group (and lets face it, by saying Paris Hilton type dogs, he WAS referring to the smaller breeds and NOT to the Utility section) but JR pushed him to

:)

A "doggy" friend of mine listened to it today, she said exactly the same, a lighthearted interview with JR taking the mick out of BF  :)

You have to admit Ben Fogle does set him self up for a bit of pee taking :)

I was going to suggest he be given the job of directing traffic, but on reflection he'd probably make a right pigs ear of that.

RIght calling all crufts exhibitors !!!!
Lets make a pac that IF Ben Fogle happens to interview you at Crufts please carry out one of the following:

1) Embarrassing him by asking what he ACTUALLY knows about dogs, and whether he has read up on the dog world before taking the presenting job.

2) Tell him that although he may look cute (not my cup of tea) he does not know what he is talking about when it comes to the dog world.

3) Have a quiet word in his ear regarding the fact that Labadoddles and Puggles are infact CROSS bred dogs and there is no such names in the KC!

Ok I know it is a bit harsh and in some cases a bit sad, but we need to stand up for our dogs reputations!! LoL!!

should we be blaming Ben fogle though, or should we be blaming the BBC for not briefing him properly ?

(yes I do have a slight soft spot for him ;) )

hpow about someone putting together a well researched letter about him that we can all send to the BBC????
Like a petirtion but a letter that has our info and name on???????
My thought on it .. Ben Fogle bad, ANYONE else Good!!!
But that is going onto Animal farm LMAO

Lea :)

I think the BBC must use Ben as presenter for the light hearted part of the show they have Frank Kane and the other woman whos name I can't remember at the moment for the pedigree side normally. Maybe they are trying to cover all bases and cater for all veiwers. However they really need him to brush up on his dog knowledge, I do find him anoying by talking such rubbish. For the BBC he makes good TV I guess, he's not my cup of tea but can see the appeal. I think we are stuck with him!

Will think hard of an attractive possible replacement........Mmmm how about George Clooney, would mind what he said!

Yeah second GC and I wouldn't care what he said either!

If they just want pretty then they shoudl gag him and not allow him to spout drivel.

Sorry to repeat myself but would viewers (fans) put up with him presenting Wimbledon, the FA cup, the British Open Golf?........Dont think so.
We must look at this as seriously, just as football fans would, and not let the BBC seduce us into thinking ....ahh well it's really for Joe Public so it has to be fluffy. It should be for us..... gosh there are enough of us.
No wonder the general public think of Dog Breeders as a bit weird, perhaps this offering reinforces that view; showing the extremes, the wrinkliest, the hairiest and the down right daft.
Why can't they show more of the sport? They are at least cleaning up their act when it comes to obedience etc but what about the showing side....... the very thing Crufts originated as.

my votes for the bloke that does the aero advert!.......chocolate?.........what chocolate?

>3) Have a quiet word in his ear regarding the fact that Labadoddles and Puggles are infact CROSS bred dogs and there is no such names in the KC!

Which shows you didnt hear the show. He SAID that they were crossbreeds and not recognised by the KC :)

I was listening to the show and I'm sure that he did, at least once, refer to "Labradoodles", "Puggles" etc as "new breeds" and he did say that the KC would recognise them.  I think he, sort of, corrected himself after that, saying they wouldn't be at Discover Dogs as they weren't recognised by the KC.

I listened to the JR show and tbh I don't know what the fuss is about.  BF said that the KC didn't recognise breeds such as Labradoodles and Puggles but lets be honest as time goes on these could become valid breeds in their own rights like any other pedigree breed.  Who has the right to say these dogs shouldn't exist compared to any other? If people want to discuss the possibilities of crossing breeds to invent new ones then the topic should be discussed, not treated as taboo.

As for BF presentng Crufts, well the BBC has plenty of presenters that irritate me especially on sports such as football and I have learnt to accept that as you become more knowledgeable in a subject you tend to hear more of the mistakes that people make. He has clearly been chosen because he likes animals and is an amiable type of guy not because of his extensive knowledge. Besides he is only presenting isn't he?  He's not judging!

Commentators and presenters I have learnt to live with but shoddy camera work makes my blood boil

but they are not breeds, they are cross breeds, first generation crosses.

Breeds have to breed true and requires a lot of dogs to be bred and a high proportion of wastage just to get enough correct foundation animals.

There is really no ethical reason to do this, with so many dogs in rescues, many breeds being in danger of dying out through lack of support, and lastly there is nothing new under the sun and plenty of breeds to fill every need and taste.

> should we be blaming Ben fogle though, or should we be blaming the BBC for not briefing him properly ?
>
> (yes I do have a slight soft spot for him ;-) )

to be fair i think both are responsible- first off BBC, hire someone who has a clue, however BF could pick up a book or google something, or talk to us lot lol!

> Will think hard of an attractive possible replacement........Mmmm how about George Clooney, would mind what he said!

there are loads of (nice looking) celebs etc with dogs, surely theres one or two who have a clue so they could defo get a decent presenter...might look into this...

right ok...mel gibson has an australian shephard, jessica alba has a pug (would increase men watching certainly!), reese witherspoon gets my vote though- not only is she quite bright (so hopefully wouldn;t spout rubbish) but hse has a frenchie!

do we really need eye candy for us ladies with the nice dogs around? besides, might get more men interested in showing ;)

Anyone watch Country file????
Think Ben should stick to that, as I thought he was very good :)
He did the Tough guy challenge!!! :- http://www.toughguy.co.uk/ and sounded normal in the report, even though he was covered head to toe in mud LOL
Unfortunatly there isnt a on line report of it!!!
Lea :)

>but they are not breeds, they are cross breeds, first generation crosses.

>Breeds have to breed true and requires a lot of dogs to be bred and a high proportion of wastage just to get enough correct foundation animals.

This is true of all breeds though.  If people want them enough they'll do it and why shouldn't they providing they breed out the faults and breed in the good qualities. 

>There is really no ethical reason to do this, with so many dogs in rescues, many breeds being in danger of dying out through lack of support, and lastly there is nothing new under the sun and plenty of breeds to fill every need and taste.

It is a pity that there are breeds dying out but what's to be done?  If you try to promote a breed you are in danger of specialist breeds ending up in novice owners hands. In fact if breeds are that much in danger then there are going to be a tiny number of potential owners who are going to be able to meet certain breeds' needs.

You're always going to have dogs ending up in rescue regardless.  The only way to reduce that is to reduce the numbers of puppies being produced, nothing to do with breeds per se.

Just playing devil's advocate here.

> If people want them enough they'll do it and why shouldn't they providing they breed out the faults and breed in the good qualities

they dont though... its simply a money making scheme. all breeds were originally crosses, mine is a relatively new breed (compared to ancient breeds like elkhounds, salukis and various others) so the cross breeding process is well recorded. the 60/40 mastiff/bulldog mix was calculate and tightly controlled to obtain a desired result, it wasn't hit or mis sticking things together to simply make a quick bit of cash at the price of the puppies health or temprement.

i think it;s fair enough to say why have more breeds, we do have somehing for everyone now, but i don;t believe in restricting the desire to create something new if its done for a purpose and is done ethically

why breed the labradoodle? even if its done well, which in order to meet certain traits will take YEARS, why not go for a breed already in existance? who would be (depending on choice) rarer and better quality. some of them look a bit like otterhounds- a otterhound is far more unique than a cross breed as are many other similar breeds.

> You're always going to have dogs ending up in rescue regardless.; The only way to reduce that is to reduce the numbers of puppies being produced, nothing to do with breeds per se.

Exactly so producing lost more puppies that are not going to meet the requirements of a new breed is not ethical.

Many breeds that have low registration figures are no more specialist than popular breeds not specialist at all, and others that really are specialist (Siberians, Akita's come to mind) have had explosions in population and huge rescue issues.

whats specialist anyway? i think most breeds have their own specialist needs- look at the probs people keep asking about with labs recently- commonly thought of as the really obedient dog.

There are definitely a few breeds whose needs are difficult to cater for in the average household with walks in the Park.  Thankfully though not that many.  Interestingly some of the most popular breeds are breeds that should be active and hard working, from the Gundog, working and Pastoral groups.  In fact the toy and Utility groups are quite small by comparison, and there are more Labradors registered than the number of dogs registered in the whole of each of the other groups.

oh certainly there are harder breeds to look after but every breed has its own specific needs that need to be taken into consideration before getting them

Tooolz I so agree with you - why do exhibitors in this country just accept the view that dog showing is not 'serious' enough as a hobby in it's own right ?- WHY do we have to put up with the triavialising and mockery that accompanies any coverage of dog shows ?- and why is the  little amount of air time we get liberally mixed in with 'fluff' to 'entertain' those that are not sufficiantly interested in our sport ?.

Is Wesminster Dog show like this ? or the World dog show ? -  Crufts should be about showing some of the best of British dogs - it should be a celebration of the work of all those dedicated breeders who have kept many breeds going and a tribute to all the hard work involved in training and preparing a dog for exhibition at the top Championship show in the country ...instead what do we get ? halls crammed to capacity selling expensive tatt  some of it only vaguely connected with dogs, a main events arena producing so much noise from the 'crowd pleasing' activities that dogs in rings nearby are unable to show properly and in many cases exhibitors and their dogs relegated to the far flung corners of the NEC where their 'strange hobby ' will not interfere with the enjoyment of the paying public !!!!!!.

rant over !

yvonne

>they dont though... its simply a money making scheme

That's an assumption but one that could be applied to most breeders of most popular breeds.  The only way around that as far as I can see is to restrict breeding to licenced breeders.  You would then have to have an authority who says who can and cannot breed and for them to also police it.  Impossible to do so never gonna happen. 

>why do exhibitors in this country just accept the view that dog showing is not 'serious' enough as a hobby in it's own right ?- WHY do we have to put up with the triavialising and mockery that accompanies any coverage of dog shows ?- and why is the  little amount of air time we get liberally mixed in with 'fluff' to 'entertain' those that are not sufficiantly interested in our sport ?

Because if you didn't attract sufficient numbers who tune in for the entertainment value and who are not serious about showing you wouldn't get any airtime, or at least not on BBC2.  We've got World Champions in sports that I have never seen competing on terrestrial channels.

Absolutley Cheryls....Hence Ben Fogle as a crowd puller/pleaser!
Karen