Hi folks our puppies have just done their required 6 months prison and have been released 3 days ago. we are having serious problems with the male he is obviously at the stage of a rebeling adolecent. he's a 8 month old bulldog (alapaha). he's very hard to understand.. I take his food half way through eating, i take his toys and let him know they are mine, if he wants something he won't get it untill he is calm, when i perform the "alpha roll" he willingly submits. Well, yesterday I took him on a walk, during the walk i dominated him, took his ball off him. when i returned home his sister challenged him when i was walking him passed her kennel and a head to head began as i pulled the male away and commanded his sister down, i turned and the male went back for her, i grabbed his collar and told him no, he turned and went to bite me missing me i managed to get him pinned on the ground he was flailing around and it wasn't long before i was in an ambulance needing hospital treatmet and yet another dog attack goes on the annual figure.
I'm going to call a canine behaviourist Monday. to see what can be done. but was hoping someone on this forum had any knowledge of these problems?? any answer of PTS is no help he has cost us to date £8000 in vets, quarantine etc, we've had him 3 days and will work with whatever we have to.  he cannot be castrated.

I own 7 dogs of this breed and have never once come across this kind of behaviour amoung my dogs. 5 entered the UK via P.E.T.S meanin the "6 months quarantine" can be done with the breeder thus recieving my dogs properly socialized and taught appropriate "mannors". these dogs live in my house and are 100% stable, I hope the 2 out of quarantine can join them in the home soon!

p.s.. quarantine is absolutly dispicible no ones poor dog should ever have to though such a traumatic period of time. 6 month is shocking considering the only thing they are trying to prevent is rabies, once the rabies vac is administered it takes from 2-3 weeks for rabies to show, if rabies shows the dog is promtly pts, if it doesn't show the dog doesn't have rabies, so why 6 months?

imagine being put in prison from 3 years old to 18 years old and being locked up with no socialization for 24hrs a day for 6 months. going "crazy" is not the word i think its insane.

HELP, thanks in advance.

Hi,

I can't comment about the issues with the dog and the way you're trying to overcome them as, IMO - and it's only my opinion, the things you are trying are totally outdated and cause more problems than they are worth.

The one thing I will say is, and this obviously is advice for the future as it's too late now, if you had him from the European continent, USA, Canada, Australia, etc, you could have brought him in via the pet passport where no quarrantine is neccessary.

Debs

Think you need to let up on all this 'Alpha' talk, he has been locked away for so long and the first thing you do is be mean to him in his eyes by taking his food off him and 'dominating' him and being generally very un fun to be with!! which I might add, dominating is a very dangerous thing to do with a bullbreed if you dont know what you are doing, you could set him off and know what a REAL bite is like and he would be within his right to do so as well.

You said youself
.s.. quarantine is absolutly dispicible no ones poor dog should ever have to though such a traumatic period of time. 6 month is shocking considering the only thing they are trying to prevent is rabies, once the rabies vac is administered it takes from 2-3 weeks for rabies to show, if rabies shows the dog is promtly pts, if it doesn't show the dog doesn't have rabies, so why 6 months?
imagine if you had just come out of jail and someone started rolling you over, taking your toys and your food all in one swoop? Id be moody as well! lol

You need to start from scratch and act as if he was still 2 months old and needing training, but please this alpha talk is unsettling when he is so young thats the last thing he wants to be being dominated, he should know his place through every day actions, not forced and sometimes cruel actions and only respond to kindness and reward based training.

Leting him know toys are yours good: dominating by rolling over like Caeser Millan = bad!

Might also be the case for him going off at another dog, with all this alpha ness running around he wants to be secure in the pack place and will 'fight' for his place as you have taught him to fight for your place is good by roling him over etc and fighting for your top place rather then just being a leader through everyday actions and training.

Just treat him as a puppy and start from stage 1.

You've only had him for 3 days, and you are really asking too much from him. I feel that you need him to settle down with you. This could take weeks, if not months :-( He has been taken from his mum and siblings, taken to a foreign country in such a way that no-one can explain to him, dumped into a kennel environment for 6 months with little interaction and you expect him to be a normal puppy? Come on. Be real. This poor soul is probably getting over stimulated with all the new sights, sounds and smells. I'd be acting badly under those circumstances.

Take it slowly with him. Give him time to settle into his new lifestyle before trying to do too much. And why do you feel that you need to dominate him? I have 4 stubborn dogs that know I'm the boss, but it's done in a friendly way. I don't think I've ever rolled any of this lot. One quick 'Oi' or 'behave' does it.

It was your choice to put him in quarantine, no one made you import him.

edit to add : this was in response to your rant about quarantine - its how the UK has stayed rabies free.

Would like to see you roll him when he is fully growna dn fully aware of his surroundings, would be a different story then.

He needs love attention and TLC to make him feel comftable like LindyLou said, your just teaching him everything is harsh and unforgiving. I dont believe in importing pups either, I think its cruel to do that to a puppy when its most vunrable and needy of human companship. :( But since you have already done it, give the pup a break please.

After 3 days i'd still be showering him with affection, lots of cuddles and kisses and be pleased to have him home. Yes training is important, so is letting the dog settle into his surroundings and get a sense of normality. You're asking him to run beofre he can walk. he's probably still adjusting to things like being indoors, stairs, the sound of the washing machine etc and there you are taking away his food and "alpha rolling him".
If you dont like the 6 months in quarantine then dont bring an imported dog into the country. Ultimately it was you that made the decison so you cant blame anyone but yourself for that.

Surely if you were willing to inport a puppy, you would have been busy learning the procesdures of introducing a new pup to your home after such a long period of being alone?

Shocking if you think Alpha rolling and taking his food is ways to make him feel welcome.

Is this a wind up? Taking toys, taking food, doing an alpha roll? All of it the total opposite to what anyone should do with any dog.

It is bordering on cruelty ........and the fact you own 7 apparantly and you love this technique so much you would do it to a 6 months old scared puppy is so worrying.........even ceaser millan wont do it to puppies........ horrible.

>I take his food half way through eating

Now, I'm a very civilised and pleasant person with no aggressive tendencies, but if someone, even my beloved OH, constantly took my dinner off me half way through eating it, I would get very possessive and possibly aggressive very quickly.  Why should a dog you hardly know be any different?   There are other, better ways of achieving a dog who is not possessive/aggressive over food. 

To be honest, at first I thought this post was a wind-up, with all the talk of domination and alpha rolling :(

I'm not really surprised the dog went for you, you challenged him often enough, sooner or later he was likely to retaliate :(

Please give the dogs a break, let them settle in and learn to trust you, and why not read some of the many books on training dogs to be acceptable companions?    have a look here for titles relevant to your problem http://www.crosskeysbooks.com/index.php?cPath=5_147  your vet can also put you in touch with a reputable pet behaviour counsellor ;)

debs you obviously didn't read the post!!

Yeah sorry I missed that bit - I was kind of reeling from the rest of it to be honest.  So why didn't this one come in on the passport system?

Debs

i have a johnson bulldog and a hines bulldog that i basically spend every waking moment with and i trust with my life, even in these circumstances there isnt a chance on this green earth i would attempt an alpha roll ! im not suprised you got bit....i know a firm but fair hand is needed with these dogs....was you like that with your other dogs ? did it work with them ?

rach "let up on all this alpha talk".. do not forget that dogs decend from wolves and are pack animals. i believe in the power of the pack like many canine behaviourist do today, Alpha roll is a very effective form of dominance and should be used at the right time to help over come dominance in dogs along with other training techniques.

im afraid to say this Rach but you are awfully dim. i recieved serious bite wounds, muscle damage and internal bleeding. he may be 8 months but he has the bite and drive to fight to the death!

why did you quote me and talk about something that was totally irrelivant?? "imagine if you had just come out of jail and someone started rolling you over, taking your toys and your food all in one swoop"

im sorry, if you can not take your dogs food half way through feeding then YOU are the one with the problem not me my dogs are stable bar 1!  and why you state i did this "all in one swoop" I've had him 3 days and have spent most of his wake hours socalizing with him and training him"

"UN FUN" how old are you?

"Leting him know toys are yours= good: dominating by rolling over like Caeser Millan = bad!"  again pack behaviour, why would you take something natural and replace it with a man made idea? Alpha dog does not get attacked, it will take the best sleeping quarters it will eat first. without bother, is this not how you want your dog and remember it is a dog and not a child! so Letitng him know toys are yours good: dominating by rolling over at the right time, like Caeser Millan = good!

why would rolling him over make him think he has to fight for his place. OBVIOUSLY if you read my post correctly this dog is part of no pack and has yet interact with the pack, he fights through lack of socalization and being confornted in an uncontrolled enviroment. also sibling rivalry and lack of obedience plays a big part too.

"Just treat him as a puppy and start from stage 1." Again pointless information.

>im afraid to say this Rach but you are awfully dim. i recieved serious bite wounds, muscle damage and internal bleeding.

Good grief, you're the one with the serious bite wounds and you're calling someone else dim?

I'm not going to comment as I don't have experience of this type of dog, but can we stop the personal remarks please?

M.

"taken to a foreign country in such a way that no-one can explain to him, dumped into a kennel environment for 6 months with little interaction and you expect him to be a normal puppy? Come on. Be real. This poor soul is probably getting over stimulated with all the new sights, sounds and smells"

dont tell me to "be real" i'm the one thats watched my poor boy deteriate over his time in the defra run quarantine facility! obviously i expected to have to deal with an "adolecent" male that is far from normal.

"Take it slowly with him. Give him time to settle into his new lifestyle before trying to do too much" 

ok so i take him for a walk and he uncontrollable jumps all over me what do i do.. well i'll tell you what i do i turn my back to him every time he jumps up soon enough he gets the idea that he's getting no where.. ok we walk for a bit run for a bit then he starts for my trousers now if he get into a frenzy trying to get at my leg and i let him get there my shin would be no more. what do i do?? please i'd like to know what you would do?

"I have 4 stubborn dogs that know I'm the boss, but it's done in a friendly way. I don't think I've ever rolled any of this lot. One quick 'Oi' or 'behave' does it."
nl
are you joking! I do own 6 other dogs that a quick oi or behave work wonders on..I take it you've had your lot from pup? you come to my kennels and try a quick Oi or Behave with my new dog you will get NO where! thanks agian for the totally irrelivant answer to my post!

because the breeder could hold the pups for that amount of time, this is what quarantine is for. obviously i've learnt from my mistake, as i said quarantine esspecially chingford is dispicable.

i never once wanted confrontation with anyone on the forum i just hoped someone might be able to offer some advice. everyone seems to want to cause an argument over anything they can find not only that some people twist your words to make you out to be irrisponcible. which i certainly am not.

>down, i turned and the male went back for her, i grabbed his collar and told him no, he turned and went to bite me missing me i managed to get him pinned on the ground he was flailing around and it wasn't long before i was in an ambulance needing hospital treatmet and yet another dog attack goes on the annual figure.

As I see it, you completely set yourself up for this attack by not heeding the dog's signals.  He snapped at you to tell you to back off, you ignored him and left him no alternative but to bite in self defence.

You seem very set on using outdated dominance theories on your dogs.  This might have worked for you on all your other dogs but you might have to admit defeat on this one and recognise that this individual dog needs another approach.  You might consider the suggestions so far as too 'softly, softly' but you need to earn this dogs trust as, so far, all he knows of you is that you take his food away, steal his toys and pin him to the ground for reasons that are probably anything but clear to him....how would you be feeling in his place? Confused at the very least I reckon.

I hope you can find a behaviourist that will find an appropriate training technique for this poor pup.

i never once attemped the "Alpha roll" in a situation when the dog was likely to attack, may i ask why you thought i performed the Alpha roll piror to being bitten?

i had no need to perform the alpha roll on my other dogs because LIKE I SAID THEY HAD PROPER SOCALIZATION AND WERE TAUGHT CORRECTLY. WHICH THIS DOG HAS NOT!

my question was to people who have relivant answers!

If you are so convinced that Alpha Rolling, Dominating and 'Pack Theory' are the best way to train a dog, why are you asking here for advice?  Surely you know more than any posters here about your favoured method of training?

If 'Pack Theory' and Alpha Rolling along with dominating your dog are so effective, why has this puppy seriously attacked you?  Surely, according to this theory he should instinctively understand what you are trying to do, after all...

>Alpha roll is a very effective form of dominance and should be used at the right time to help over come dominance in dogs along with other training techniques.

>why would you take something natural and replace it with a man made idea? Alpha dog does not get attacked, it will take the best sleeping quarters it will eat first. without bother, is this not how you want your dog and remember it is a dog and not a child!

My dogs are totally safe to take anything including food/bones off.  They didn't get this way by my stealing their food, they learned that humans around food = more food.  I did this by only ever adding really tasty food to their bowls while they were eating when they were pups/youngsters.  This way they learned to trust that their food/bones are not at risk.  My dogs know they are dogs and are not treated like children, but they are not Alpha Rolled either.

ETA Ok, so you really believe in the whole Dominance/Alpha Dog thing, but you appear to have now met a possibly Alpha Dog (at least he thinks he is according to your theories) and he has already demonstrated that he is more powerful, faster and clearly more dangerous than you, where does your Alpha Theory go from here?  

You are the one who is injured by your dog, you read him wrong and have the wounds to prove it.  Surely this is a sign that it's time to take a different approach?  

>i never once attemped the "Alpha roll" in a situation when the dog was likely to attack, may i ask why you thought i performed the Alpha roll piror to being bitten?

Sorry, is this directed at me?  You stated that he 'willingly submits' when alpha rolled.  However, I did not relate the alpha roll to the attack...you grabbed his collar, he snapped, you didn't let go, he attacked.

>i had no need to perform the alpha roll on my other dogs because LIKE I SAID THEY HAD PROPER SOCALIZATION AND WERE TAUGHT CORRECTLY. WHICH THIS DOG HAS NOT!

It was your decision to put him through qurantine and it is now your job to ensure that he is socialised and taught correctly.  It's not ideal to be starting so late, obviously, but it can be done.  One of my dogs came to me as an untrained, unsocialised 6 month old.  He is now a well adjusted 4 year old without ever resorting to taking his food, removing his toys or alpha rolling him :-)

>my question was to people who have relivant answers!

When you post on a public forum, ANYONE is welcome to respond ;-)  What you choose to heed in those responses is up to you.

when did he snap at me telling me to back off? if i had let him near me he would have bitten me thats why i pinned him, that what you do when you get attacked is you go into survial mode and try to immobilize the dog thats attacking.. IMAGINE: 2 big dogs that you hardly know and have had no socalization in other words they are SEMI- WILD they are challanging eachother almost flat out fighting and you step in.. you become another dog and in turn get treated like another dog resulting in a fight between man and dog. that is fact and i wholely blame myself.  ".  He snapped at you to tell you to back off, you ignored him and left him no alternative but to bite in self defence." no sorry, he was attacking me not warning me I WAS THERE NOT YOU.

my dog gets fed 2 times a day once in the morning and once at night out of 7 feedings i took his food for one second made him sit and gave it straight back are you suggesting im tormenting my much loved dog or do you just want to argue?  also i visited my pups once a week and fed them twice when i was there. 

sorry that was relating to the johnson hines owner.

i know its my problem, i feel bad about the whole quarantine thing and i will sort it out! everyone is just repeating them selves. and it obvious to me these people are clearly immature and clearly have nothing better to do other than critisize.

Speaking as someone who has CLICKER TRAINED an aggressive dog over the garden fence, without his owner realising, I think you really might need to reassess your approach :)

The dog (Mastiff/rottie X) had been encouraged to be aggressive and rewarded for it.  It had also been trained in a Dominant way and was at the adolescent stage so full of hormones too.  I couldn't go out of my own back door without this dog barking aggressively and trying to attack me, trying to climb over the fence and throwing himself at it.  I certainly couldn't have tried to Alpha Roll this dog, it was too big, too aggressive and also out of my reach.  

First I had to get his attention and stop the aggressive behaviour and constant barking.  To this end I took a leaf out of his owner's book and shouted in his face full force.  This was enough to stop the barking for a few seconds.  Immediately I clicked and threw a piece of sausage which he caught.  I then proceeded to train him first to the clicker (ie. Click = Treat) and progressed to a sit which I knew he already understood.  Over the next few weeks I trained him to leave it (ie. stop barking and attacking), quiet! (stop barking) sit, lie down.  I never had to raise my voice again.   This training came in very useful when his idiot owner started leaving the dog (usually unsupervised) in the tiny front garden and encouraging it to behave aggressively towards anyone passing.  One day, the inevitable happened, the dog cleared the front wall to attack an old lady.  Luckily my daughter came around the corner at the same time and shouted 'leave it!' then 'down' the dog obeyed both commands like a lamb.    Owner was astonished, he knew the dog wouldn't have obeyed him ;)

This was acheived through reward and priase, without ever touching the dog.

he turned and went to bite me missing me I managed to get him pinned on the ground

Is that not the same as snapping and telling you to back off ;-)

I would heed to all of the peoples answers to your incident and methods of training and not wait for what you want to hear if you want to help your dog :-)

DILL. pack therory is natural dogs are dogs, whatever approach you decide to use if it works use it, my preferred training with overly dominant does not include the alpha roll unless the time is right and you allways make sure the dog shows submittion with the roll over before you attempt this manover!!!

"My dogs are totally safe to take anything including food/bones off.  They didn't get this way by my stealing their food,"

i for one did not steal their food! lol like i said it was given straight back to him.

So Dill you feel you have the knowledge so why not give an answer worth listening to!

how can i curb my dogs dominace issues? considering the boundaries this near adult dog has missed out on??

LJS  NO NO and NO please read the thread before you start typing.....his jaw snapped and had i not moved he would have bitten me. i pinned him down in self defense to save myself from getting viciously biten. the dog saw red and went for me and would not stop, he only stopped when two friend took his lead and tied it off. so from your advice if i'd backed off and not protected myself it could have been worse..

Well done great help thanks lol

>he turned and went to bite me missing me I managed to get him pinned on the ground

>Is that not the same as snapping and telling you to back off ;-)

Thank you Lucy, you beat me to it.  That is what I took from the situation too...a snap that doesn't make contact is characteristic of a warning.

>my dog gets fed 2 times a day once in the morning and once at night out of 7 feedings i took his food for one second made him sit and gave it straight back are you suggesting im tormenting my much loved dog or do you just want to argue? 

I have no wish to argue, I can assure you :-)  I simply feel that, particularly in the very early stages of integration as you are currently, trust needs to be encouraged as much as possible.  Presuming that the dog ate his meals without interruption for the past 6 months in kennels, then even removing his meal once makes you a potential threat.  I have never taken a meal from in front of either of my dogs but I can do so if I want or need to because, from day 1, I added food to their bowl as they were eating so that they would learn that a hand in their bowl is a good thing.  Similarly, swapping their toys for a treat or whatever...my dogs will willingly 'give' anything they are asked to because they learned the association with getting something positive in return :-)

>IMAGINE: 2 big dogs that you hardly know and have had no socalization in other words they are SEMI- WILD they are challanging eachother almost flat out fighting and you step in..

I would assume this goes without saying, given the outcome, but I would keep them separated as much as possible until you have had more time to spend on training each individually, building up a relationship with them as individuals and socialising them with other dogs before allowing them to socialise with each other.

I hope your injuries are not too severe and that you will make a full and speedy recovery.

at last! thankyou dill!! some helpful advice again thank you...

Well, if you are so certain that you are doing things correctly, why are you on here, asking for help, and then dismissing everyone who dares to contradict you?

I haven't actually seen any posts supporting your methods....which do not seem to be working with this dog.

And I'm not going to offer advice where none is taken.  Maybe you should be asking this question on a different forum where you might get answers that satisfy YOUR needs rather than the needs of the poor dog!

Margot

I have read your thread and taken the sentence directly from your thread. I also did not give you any advice to back off ;-) Perhaps read my thread before you post :-)
I do hope that the comment about that you are not willing to get him castrated means you are thinking about using him as a stud ? I really do hope not considering the obvious temprement issues. Also It doesn't matter if you spent £8 or £8000 on a dog if the dog poses danger to you or anybody else and a behaviourist cannot help the issues then PTS is really the only answer .

From what you are writing, you believe you have all the answers already.  Not sure why you have joined this site, apart from trying to start an argument.

>whatever approach you decide to use if it works use it

And if it doesn't?   Unfortunately your own approach hasn't worked for you ;) perhaps it's time to take your own advice and try something else. 

If this dog has dominance issues, why is he trying to dominate a BITCH??   surely if dogs are dogs etc.  then she is prime potential breeding material and he should be doing anything but trying to dominate a bitch.   In the dog world Bitches are usually above dogs ;)    Ever seen a stud dog 'trying to get frisky' with an unreceptive bitch?   The most dominant stud dog will normally back down to a bitch ;)

Poor dog to be treated in the way he has in only 3 days of coming out of quarantine.  As the previous owner of a dog that spent 6 months in quarantine and the partner of 3 more i have to say that all but one coped brilliantly, so much so that Dilita went on holiday for a few days after quarantine and acted as though she'd been there all  her life.

Yes quarantine can affect some dogs terribly but the majority cope well with it.

clairey please dont type pointless comments untill you have fully read what has been written! i no it was my choice and i whole heartly regreat the whole thing!

please you feel your imput is worth listening to, from little research i found out that rabies shows up between 2-3 weeks, so why do they hold the dog for so long, there has been talks with animal rights groups about altering the 6 months to 3 months because they no its totally pointless.. you'll find that government run quarantine facilities are owned by vet groups the one i used was run by the goddard vetnery group, these are the same people that tell you booster injections should be aminstered and to feed your dog pedigree chum!

basically they are out to make money, wake up

perrodeagua:  your point was?

sibling rivalry my friend, had i known there were totally unhelpful people on here i would have joined!

what after no training pts.. negitive ATTITUDE

Some dogs go through quarantine and are a breeze if the underlying inherited temperament is such that it can cope with the lack of socialisation.

I and three Friends imported a pup at 9 1/2 weeks old and a more well adjusted dog would be hard to find.

He went to his first show 3 days out of quarantine and was everyones friend.  When choosing a dog to go into quarantine as a puppy the background breeding and natural character must be very sound in the lines, sadly of course you may not know the true temperament of the parents if it is masked/altered by control and training.

Some dogs and some breeds just do not have the kind of character that can take the lack of early socialisation and training.

The breed description found here: http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/alapahabluebloodbulldog.html

(Description:
Alert. Protective. Intelligent. These are the qualities of the Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, whose name connotes its regal bearing. Alapahas are said to make wonderful companions. They are also excellent watchdogs and are fiercely protective of whatever they are asked to guard. The Alapaha has a sturdy, muscular frame and is powerfully built, agile, and athletic.)

points to the fact that maybe they are not the best candidates for Quarantine.  How often did you visit this dog each week?  I would have thought your overbearing training techniques were probably not the best idea for an adolescent under socialised dog to whom you are practically a stranger.

> LIKE I SAID THEY HAD PROPER SOCALIZATION AND WERE TAUGHT CORRECTLY. WHICH THIS DOG HAS NOT!
>
> my question was to people who have relivant answers!

The techniques you tried were not appropriate to this individual in these circumstances.

Lets just say I go along with the pack dominance way of thinking.

this dog is not yet a pack member, he is an outsider so not subject to your dominance and a lone wolf coming into contact with another and challenged would fight.

I personally feel that a NILIF program where you outhink the dog and set yourself up to win without confrontation would be a safer route to take, and will gain you the dogs trust and at the same time put you in the role of provider.

Here are some links: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=NILIF&meta=

Did you not check out the quarantine facilities before you decided to the inport the dog? I woould have checked this before as it is to late if you have a problem after the dog is there.

I think you're attitude needs to change, obviously waht you have tried isnt working so you need to take peoples advice and change to another tactic, not attack ever suggestion that is put forward.

I feel sorry for the dog. Clearly very scared and frightened and doesn't know whether he's coming or going.

what after no training pts.. negitive ATTITUDE

If you read my comment I said after a behaviourist has tried to help you and the dog then if the dog is still showing this sort of agressive behaviour then what options do you have ?  Using him as a stud would be totally irresponsible do you not think as I certainly do :-)

I missed this post the first time around, but have to say I am shocked by the way that you train your dogs.

Of course this dog does not need to be pts, it just needs a different trainer and someone who understands him. You could have an excellent potential stud here and he is being ruined by your bullying techniques.

Praise and reward works a million times better than playing Mrs Alpha, how do you know what training techniques this dog will answer to, all dogs are different, all you are doing is causing a willfull dog to get angry and stand up for himself, taking his frustrations out even on a bitch.
If he is only shown aggressive training and has things taken from him what are you teaching him? You give him only two choices to lay down and play Mr Submissive, or attack back. This one is attacking back!  You chose the wrong technique on the wrong dog.

You have to grow with a pup, watch and learn the dog inside out to know which techniques are needed to train him, some do need a stronger hand than others, some do need a more Alpha roll from their owners, but most need praise and reward to become the perfect adult.

I suggest you immediately change techniques before you ruin this dog completely.  Get a behaviourist to help you learn how to train this dog with praise and reward for everyones benefit, it is obvious the Alpha tactic is not working for him.

I hope that my post does not come across too judegmental I am only thinking of this dog, like you I want him to grow up to be everything you wanted, good mannered, obediant and hopefully a good potential stud, all dogs are different and this one does not agree with your training methods, good luck and get in that behaviourist. :-)

Myths about the alpha roll
Debunking the dominance myth

Unless the original poster lives in some kind of "Life on Mars" / "Ashes to ashes" time travelling scenario, the above links describes how the alpha roll and dominance theories are seen these days -as total myths and inappropriate ways of training, outdated by several decades.

I have never heard such a load of rubbish in my time.

Its cruel the way tyou have taken this pup from his mother, chucked him in quarentine and then got him only to be completely what a bullbreed doesnt need a CHALLENGER in a UNPOSITIVE way.

You shouild think of owning another breed if you find it so hard to have a good bullbreed and not have to dominate it every chance you get.

Also you say you have 6 dogs and no 'NO' or 'OI'will get them to stop, seems like none of your dogs respond to your training what so ever, so it cant be working can it????

Just thought I would ask Do you going to alpha roll puppies when they bite or wont listen???

this may sound a silly question but what is an alpha roll? ive read the whole of this post and couldnt possibly comment as i dont know what one is! sorry if this sounds ignorant, i just wondered what it is?

I think it's flipping a dog on it's back and pinning them down until they 'submit' and is supposed to show your 'dominance' over them.
It can be VERY dangerous with the wrong dog as you risk getting injured yourself in the process.
It's not something I would ever do.

Its good you dont know what it is! lol

Its when a dog is being 'dominant' IE not doing what you want it to do, and some people believe rather then training the dog to good standard, you grab them by the scruff and on the bum, flip them on their back and hold their head and body down with 2 hands while you make them 'submit' to you, and then they are released when they are calm.
Bit like when a wrestler does a pin down at the end of a match to win but with a dog.

Its a dangerous thing to do, espicially with a bulldog as its a bullbreed which will fight back and the more you fight, the more they fight so it really does not work!! It also doesnt fix any problems as when the dog gets back up again, it will probably just continue from where it left off!

> I have never heard such a load of rubbish in my time.
>

Rachel, perhaps you could offer some constructive advice for the OP rather than just tell him that what he is doing is wrong, especially as you say in your profile that you're a budding trainer of bull breeds? Feelings are obviously still running high on this thread but constructive replies are the best way of keeping it on track & of use to both the OP & other readers.

Thanks

It is where you get the dog on it's back and hold it down often by the throat.