Im a little uncertain on posting this question here, but here goes.....I am looking for a good quality dane stud of blue colouring preferably to mate with my GREYHOUND bitch, i know this probably sounds wrong to dane breeders, but i have wanted to do this for a very long time. My grandma used to own a great dane x greyhound called lady, which she got given by a dane breeder because the dane she had accidentally mated to her greyhound but she was gorgeous, finer boned and more slender than a dane with less height, she was the most gentle, laid back, beautiful dog i had ever known, she lived till 14 years old and i was heartbroken, i really want to recreate a dog like lady and it's proving really difficult to find a good breeder that's willing, i can see myself having to buy a dane puppy just to be able to breed him to my bitch in the future, please help if you can. 

 

Be prepared for lots of negative comments kayslurchers

Hmm I know what some poeple will have to say about this!!

Will both parents be heath tested and with KC registration?
Also what benefit will come of crossing the 2? You only want one puppy, what about the other possible 9 puppies? can you find them good homes and do you have enough cash to even raise a litter and pay for possible C-Section if something goes wrong?

I dont think its a good idea persoanally as neither breed has anything to offer to the other, but I hope at least both parents are health tested and registered for this litter if you are dead set on it.

Sorry that was quite negative of me aswell :-) not to back up my comment.
Basically as you said the dane and greyhound was an accident - it should never be bred on purpose. Not once have you metioned any health tests. Im a firm believer that a dog is the way it is becuase of the environment. You say that your last dog was a great temperment and gentle laid back etc, a lot of breeds offer this trait already so there is no need to create a cross breed to try to get it again, and the dog was probably that temperment becuase of how you were as owners.
You cant finds a good breeder thats willing becuase no decent breeder in their right mind would be up for this. You want a puppy from the litter. What about the other littermates. Not sure how easy it would be to rehome up to 8 greyhound x dane puppies.
Sorry but all round bad idea, and if any breeder is willing i'd be questioning their ethics and integrity.

Aside from the reservations that others will have, I think it's a dangerous game to try and 'recreate' any dog, even with pedigree animals that breed true. The chances of getting something with the same look, characteristics and temperament are ridiculously small.

Another point to remember is that Danes today will look very different to what would have sired Lady so many years ago - the majority are much heavier boned with larger heads, all making it even more likely that a caesarian may be required.

I think we can all understand missing an animal so much, but unfortunatley I think Lady is best remaining in your memory.

M.

Its harsh but true, its simply not a good idea to cross breed 2 dogs that are so different and of such different structure as well.
Do you have a health tested Greyhound to breed? And have homes set up for all the puppies which is the most important thing.

I would just say think about your bitch.  Look at the difference in size, body shape and build between the two breeds.

You poor dog will probably be in pain mating - the weight of the male just one aspect.
Both have large litters - so you could end up with 9 puppies.
Giving birth - great dane puppies are much larger than greyhound puppies and your girl will run into trouble during the whelp.  Could you forgive your self if your bitch had to have a cesarian or worse becuase you wanted a similar dog to what you had when you were younger.

Because the two breeds will mix the temperament you get from the mix will not be the same as your old dog.  You will be forever comparing them which isn't fair on your new puppy.

There are good reasons why breeders are saying no to you and I think you should listen as they are experienced.

Why not go to a rescue and see what is in there - you will be able to look at their temperaments too.

All the best
Anna

I know it's not ethical to purposely cross breed dogs, but i have my heart set on it. My bitch is perfectly healthy, she's an ex racing bitch registered with the NGRT. Of course i would want the dane to be kc registered and have all relevant health tests done. I have mentioned this to several people and me, my sister, and a few friends would have a puppy and it wouldn't bother me how long it took to find good homes for the rest of the litter, im not in it for the money, i have plenty of money so to speak, rearing them wouldn't be a problem. I love great danes, but they aren't very long lived and in my opinion crossing one to my greyhound would make the puppies longer lived and more athletic looking. This litter would be planned, totally wanted and very much adored, i would take anyone of them back if one of the owners could no longer keep it etc. There must be at least one good breeder out there that would give it just a tiny thought. Just to add im not critisising danes at all, if i came across offence at all.

The first thing you have to remember is you can never recreate a much loved dog.

Even in the same breed you will never have two alike.

With a cross bred litter the results are totally unpredictable.

Then there is the ethical issue of deliberately breeding a crossbred litter when there are already loads in rescue.

Neither Danes or Greyhounds are easy dogs to find homes for and a crossbreed of the two even less so I would have thought.

Large sight hounds are one of the hardest groups of dogs to find responsible willing homes for and in effect that is what this cross would be (a Dane is a boar hunting dog originally).

Both breeds (Danes and Greyhounds) can have very big litters that is an awful lot of responsibility for say 10 or more pups, with a very uncertain potential for homing.

I know a large sight hound breeder who only breeds about every five years and when the pups are born only keeps the numbers she has had firm bookings for in the last five years and the rest are put to sleep at birth, because finding the right homes is so hard.  Even so she has had to take back and keep the dog herself where the home hasn't worked out.

Your plan really is not a responsible one I am afraid :(

Why not just get a Blue Dane pup that is a bit light boned and fine, there is bound to be one in a litter.

A cross may give you some very Dane-like pups and some very greyhound like, and not what you are hoping for.

I knew a rescue Dane bitch that lived to 13, so checking bloodlines and longevity of family members shoudl help.

And having healthy dogs put to sleep is responsible??? Pot kettle and black i think. If you havent got homes lined up for them then dont breed in the first place - simple.

Another point to consider - what colour is your Greyhound? I'm assuming as you're asking for a blue stud, you're hoping for blue puppies. As blue is a recessive gene, your bitch might not even be capable of producing this.

To the poster who commented that you might get as many as nine puppies, as someone who goes through the Dane BRS with a fine toothcomb every quarter, litters much larger than that are not at all uncommon. There was a lot of publicity recently in the national press for a litter of 15 puppies, but a look at the BRS will show that it was not remarkable at all. Many breeders will also tell you that a good proportion of people who are just desperate for a puppy will magically melt away when the puppies are reality and not a dream.

M.

For you to read all of these points and still say you are going to do it even with your greyhounds possible suffering through birth and even death, I think is disgusting to put it lightly.

You dont have your greyhounds best intrests at heart and with regards to what you said with this I have mentioned this to several people and me, my sister, and a few friends would have a puppy People always say that but when it comes to crunch time they rarely take a puppy, the idea is greater then the actual responsibility it takes and you have no idea if the will be cute as a bunny pups, or large mis shapen pups which no one wants.

No breeder will give you a chance with a health tested Dane, like Brainless said, why not just buy a Blue dane??

I guess it will just never happen then. You are all talking sense though and thankyou for your comments, does anybody know of any blue dane breeders that aren't really heavy boned and big headed?

Oh and another thing ... (sorry!).

Your original post says that Lady came from a Dane breeder, whose dog was accidentally mated by a Greyhound. If I'm reading it right, this means that the mum was the Dane, dad was the Greyhound. Note here that while this still wasn't desirable, at least the Dane bitch was much less likely to have trouble whelping the cross-bred puppies than a Greyhound would have whelping Dane crosses.

Hope you're not feeling picked on, but that you're carefully considering the points that are being raised.

M.

Sorry, this post came after you'd agreed that maybe it wasn't the best way forward. You might want to attend some shows to look at Danes and see if any suit your type. The only one that springs to mind is Galomax, in the West Country.

I really hope you have seen the light and abandoned this.

Just think you could have a stunning dane and your girl as well all healthy and safe, it will be so much more worth it.

Look on puppy registars under Danes and someone will have a litter you can go view or you will find abreeder who has a litter up and coming.

Just please do not cross your grayhound with a dane :(

Well i knew i wasn't going to get positive feed back, but i just thought id give it a go. No the dam was a greyhound, the sire the dane. She was primarily a dane breeder, but she kept a few show greyhounds, the pups were born by c-section though, i think she had 12 puppies but the breeder had all but 2 put to sleep at birth.

Do galomax have a website?

>Do galomax have a website?

Don't think so, but I will PM you their contact details. If they don't think they're likely to have anything that will suit you, they may know someone who will.

M.

> And having healthy dogs put to sleep is responsible??? Pot kettle and black i think. If you havent got homes lined up for them then dont breed in the first place - simple.

Yes it is responsible.  In order for the breed to continue to exist litters have to be bred, but there is a very small number of suitable homes available.  This is why this very responsible and successful breeder (amazing really with such limitations) breeds only about every five years to keep the next generation for herself and other breed enthusiasts prepared to wait that long.

Registration statistics for the breed for 2006 1st  1/4 (jan to march)0, 2nd 1/4 1, 3rd 1/4 1, 4th 1/4 5, year total 7.  In 2007 1st 1/4 0, 2nd 1/4 0, 3rd 1/4 5, 4th 1/4 2, year total 7.

Putting pups to sleep at birth knowing there are not the homes for them is very responsible.  Trying to find them homes and failing is not.

Or would you prefer a breed be allowed to become extinct for want of popularity?

Well i think to put pups to sleep is barbaric. If 2 people are willing to wait 5 years to get a pup, then make people wait longer until all the litter could be sold. In my opinion it is cruel.

> , does anybody know of any blue Dane breeders that aren't really heavy boned and big headed?

You may be lucky with blacks and blues as often they are not as good in Bone and body as the fawns, so you have a better chance of finding a fine boned smaller headed pet quality pup in this colour.

I would contact the Dane breed clubs for members that health test etc.

A list can be found at the bottom of the Dane breed standard on the Kennel club website: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/51

I just want to add another anecdote to dissuade you. My sister had a pair of littermates that were the most beautiful dogs. They were great dane X rhodesian ridgebacks, both dogs and from the same litter. These two dogs, while both wonderful, were chalk and cheese. They had some physical similarities as they both had a similar look and both were the RR red. But, one was a whole stone heavier than the other, one had a ridgeback head and a more pronounced ridge, the other had a dane head. One was very bright, was one thick as two planks. One of them was a once in a lifetime dog; you know, one of the dogs that you love so much and that is so fantastic they will always stand out above the rest. The other wasn't. Now these were littermates. Cherish the memory of your girl but she can not be brought back from the dead by what you're describing. Even if you had her litter sister they would be completely different dogs. We all have our once in a lifetime dogs and rue the day we lose them but we can't create copies of them any more than we could create copies of the people we love.

breeds only about every five years to keep the next generation for herself and other breed enthusiasts prepared to wait that long.

The above statement in its self Freds Mum is responsible. If a breed is to survive pups muct be bred but if there arent any homes for them it is a sad fact of life that breeds we love and want to keep, sacrifices have to be made.
I dont agree with it or like it, but there goes if we want these breeds to stay around.

> Well i think to put pups to sleep is barbaric. If 2 people are willing to wait 5 years to get a pup, then make people wait longer until all the litter could be sold. In my opinion it is cruel.

Unfortunately mother nature means that a bitch really needs to have a litter by five years of age.

I am sure the breeder would be delighted if she could make sure her bitch only had a couple of pups.

As a society we are quite prepared to offer human women abortions up to 24 weeks gestation.  A newborn pup is born blind and deaf and very under developed.  I can't see how painless culling at birth is any more barbaric. Both are done for good reasons, because there isn't a suitable home.

I just think if people are willing to wait x number of years then make them wait a few more until the whole litter could go to homes.
Not meaning to get people backs up but if the breed were wiped out then its natural evolution and survival of the fittest.
If there isnt a suitable home then dont breed. It's different if its an accidetnal breeding but to breed a bitch knowing only 2 people want pups from a litter of say 8 is ridiculous.

Turn it around then Freds Mum, what if it was your breed and you were desperate for a puppy but the breeder had to resort to this method?

But again with a large sight hound you're looking at large litters. To only breed when you have guaranteed (if there was such a thing) homes for all the pups would mean waiting until you have perhaps 25+ homes waiting in a very specialist breed - the litter could be all dogs, all bitches, people can have domestic or health issues that cause them to pull out when puppies are here.

I'm sure it's not an easy decision for the breeder, but I would agree that it's the responsible one.

M.

Why should a breed die out if there are people who want to save canine heritage and own them.  We are talking about responsible population control.  I am sure no breeder, especially a competitive one wants to put to sleep newborn whelps, any one of whom could be the best thing they ever bred, but they make this sacrifice in order the breed can continue.

There are groups that would like to make life so difficult for dog owners that all dogs die out.  PETA is one that wants to see all domestic animals die out.

In Response to Lily Mc

Also we are dealing with an animal with a limited lifespan and even more limited safe reproductive age.

And of course just one barren female could literally endanger the whole breed, when you are being responsible enough to leave the maximum safe limit to reproduction.

Far rather a puppy put humanely to sleep at birth than another dog in a shelter with no prospect of the right home.

M.

I love my breed and ideally would be my first choice of dog, however, i simply wouldnt get one if this method was used. I can honestly say, hand on heart id rather go without than know my dogs litter mates would be PTS sleep becsaue there weren't enough owners.
Or.....i could just take on the whole litter to save them being PTS :-)

It is a testament to the breeder that they keep the breed going, it is largely healthy and quality seems to be high as they place in the group at the highest level.

Well we see things differently then because i dont see thhat as the most important thing.
If a woman has 6 children, 4 of whom are in care, i wouldnt encourage her to have more just becuase her children were lovely.

"the pups were born by c-section though, i think she had 12 puppies but the breeder had all but 2 put to sleep at birth."
This, I think speaks for itself. I do hope your request for dane breeders who breed with smaller heads etc. doesnt mean you are going to buy a boy to put to your girl as you previously suggested??? You have said you realise this is an unethical breeding - add to that purely selfish especially when you are well aware of the harm that can be done to your bitch.

We are not talking about more just having them at all.  A bitch usually has a litter not one pup. 

If a mare is found to be carrying twins one foal has to be sacrificed.

In IVF they implant more than one embryo to increase the chance of a pregnancy.  When it is found that more than two have taken they will reduce the number.

Do you drink Milk eat cheese yogurt etc Freds Mum?

You do realise that a cow needs to have a calf every year to produce milk and that half of these (male calves) are shot soon after birth as they are not needed, we don't eat much veal.

Do you eat eggs, even if only Free range?

Half of the chicks hatched for egg production are going to be gassed at birth as the cock birds are no needed.

Bit of breed history here: Liz Richardson of the Sabrefield kennel once had a Greyhound cross called Buster that she eventually lost. Some time later she and a friend visited Crufts and at a trade stand happened to see a poster showing photos of different breeds of dog that existed across the world. She noticed the Malinois looked very similar to the dog she used to have (she was at this point a Greyhound breeder) -and cutting a long story short, she and her friend imported the breed into Britain as it did not exist here, and founded a very successful kennel and is largely responsible for the existence of the breed in various other countries as well. All because she wanted a dog that looked similar to the crossbreed she'd lost, but was responsible enough to NOT deliberately create a crossbred litter. (I dare say she got dogs with totally different temperament though!)

To touch on what Lori said, I have two dogs that are litter mates from an ACCIDENTAL first cross between two breeds. They are totally different from each other in both looks and temperament, the only thing they have in common is the coat type and colour (brindle -which is totally different to the parents' colours. NONE of the 10 pups had the same colour as either parent). Several of their littermates are different again, black and with an altogether different temperament to my two, and nobody could ever guess a) that  they were all from the same litter and b) what the parents were.

>I just think if people are willing to wait x number of years then make them wait a few more until the whole litter could go to homes.

How on earth could a breeder do that if the bitch is the last of her line?   To take a litter after 5 years could be extremely risky, in this case either the breeder gets a litter at 5 or the line is lost.  To the detriment of the whole breed if it's an excellent line and a very specialist breed.

Another anecdote about crossing different breeds/sizes

I was extremely lucky to rescue an Afghan X Parson Russel-type terrier from an accidental mating, the pups were born by section.   There were 3 pups in the litter, two of them grew to the size of dad (the Afghan) but had smooth coats like mum, the one I had from the son of the owner of the bitch was bigger than mum but not very big @ 17" and had the full Afghan coat and temperament.   From what I've seen of crossbreeding this is fairly typical, the results usually can't be predicted ;)  Much as I adored that dog (and still miss him) I did loads of research to find a breed of similar shape, size and temperament :)

kayslurchers why not have a hunt around rescues to see if there is a type you like? there are TONS of danes in rescue as well as tons of crosses- i;m sure there will be a dane/greyhound cross in a shelter somewhere...

In Response to MarianneB

I once saw a Golden cross Tervueren (the long coated version of MarianneB's breed) and the pup loked like a small Leonberger, different again to what you got, even without the coat length..

It was something looking like that we had all expected Brainless, then out popped all these blacks and brindles!!  (All shortcoated as well, the bitch obviously did not carry the longhair gene DESPITE having Tervs behind her from the time when inter variety matings were allowed.) The owners of the blacks tell me they are forever being told by people they clearly have a Labrador cross, they couldn't possibly be anything else. And I must admit, had I just seen them and not known the background I'd probably have thought the same. I was once told, with great authority by a judge at a crossbreed show, that I had a Greyhound cross!

The brindle must have been quite a surprise, bet yout htought it migth fade in infancy.

It does seem very common to get black pups in golden crosses.

there was one near me that looked liek a black Golden so ingorant people tended to think he was a flatcoat.  One parent was unknown but Mum a Golden.

As i said earlier, i am not going to do this, it is unethical, unresponsible and i now realise this. I will search for a blue girl that is light boned and small headed. Lady was petite and about 29 inches to the shoulder. A blue girl will be as close to lady as i will ever get.

Good luck

Good luck if your intentions are pure in reference to what you very first posted:

can see myself having to buy a dane puppy just to be able to breed him to my bitch in the future, please help if you can. 

Hope you manage to find a girl you want, rather then trying to re-create one!

> just dont ever be tempted to cross them!

Now that would win a mention i the Guinness book of records, LOL as both would be girls :D 8-)

1) The foal is scarificed through abortion - the foal isnt born then disposed off so cant compare
2) More than one embryo is implanted because many die naturally. They are not terminated, merely dont survive. Again this happens before the foetus is viable.
3) Yes i am fully aware about the calving process. And no, not all calfs are shot. Coming from a farming background we kept and still do keep the calfs. Some farmers do shoot the calves, the bulls especially as they are worth even less than the heiffers. We dont shoot any. Financially it doesnt make much profit but it is humane.We jut about break even after bringing the calves to an age when they are sold on at market and some of the heiffers are kept to become milkers.
4) Yes we eat eggs. From the farm. Free range. Like to know where my food comes from and how it was treated. Again if any eggs are hatched they are all kept.

I object to your patronising questions.

'Lurk' is such a horrible word. But I am an avid reader of this forum .... so many differeing points of view and so much good advice.

I've never felt the need to ask a q until now. I appreciate that the op is changed her tack on breeding her girly. However I wondered: as an ex racing bitch registered with the NGRT is there not a contract / code of conduct with the Trust regarding breeding? Or does it not work like that?

Good luck in your search and well done for taking on board all off the opinions on this !

Lets us know if you have any luck in finding a pup !

no time to read all this yet so prob already been said but how could a greyhound bitch mate with a great dane. surely he is twice as big both in height and weight and if she could bear his weight how could she birth to great dane size pups? it would be like putting a male british bulldog to a chihuahua!! even if she didnt need a section it would split her in two! arent there enough mongrels out there already?

forgot to say why would op want a light boned dane with small head? surely it needs to look like a dane if its a dane-they are meant to have big bones and big heads!!
to brainless would like to know which breed you are talking about? if pups are so unpopular they are pts why breed? surely rare breeds are in demand? (if it is a rare breed)??