But what do we do with them??????
examples, myra hindley, fred west, Soham killer, guy who killed 5 prostitutes. ALL people that will never be released if still alive,
We keep them warm, fed entertained. My view is, they should be kept in a 4x4 cell all their life. if they cant be taken out of the equation.
The amount of DNA evidence that can be got now, if someone is comitted of a premediated non fault murder then they should suffer as well, and human rights should be removed forthwith!!! Sorry just my view.
Lea.

Harsher prisons, no entertainment, comforts, tellies, gyms, play stations or whatever etc, etc.  That'll relieve some of the burden on the taxpayer.  Hard manual labour and repetitive rehab with a psychiatrist going over what they did although I imagine some will be beyond redemption.  They can go into the 4 x 4 cells.  Charged for their keep, that should relieve the tax payer as well.

Hanging isn't suffering, it's a quick death and I imagine some would rather prefer it if prison was prison and not today's soft holiday camp.  Suicide rates might go up but that's their choice because of what they did, not because we voted for hanging.

One person wrongly sentenced to death is too many. Imagine if it were your husband/father/brother

Not getting at Kirstie, but isn't it interesting that the above assumes a male murderer?  What about Rosemary West, Myra Hindley etc.

I was actually assuming an innocent person being sentenced to death, but I agree your point about assumption. I guess I assumed most of these forum members were women, as most forums I use are mainly women posters. Far more men do kill than women though, but again, I take your point.

Lea, in response to your post. What possible good can come of making someone suffer in prison? It doesn't benefit the victim in any way, and in my mind hankers back to the dark ages. Saying that is completely different to taking someone's life (capital punishment) in a painless way.

Hanging?  Wouldnt want to go that way. 

As far as capital punishment, I sit on the fence.  Some horrific killers, should be made to pay.  These are killers who torture, humiliate, and then kill their victims.  Did those victims ask for it?  No.  Did their families ask for the horrific loss of their loved ones?  No.  When we talk about human rights of the guilty, it kinda makes me mad (not at anyone here, just the whole debate of the subject in general, on and off the forum). The justice system is so worried about the guilty's rights, but who cares about the victims?  A murder victim, has less rights in the eyes of the law, then the person that killed them.  And what about the victim of any crime, whether they died or not.   I am not saying all guilty should die, there has to be limits, but, the justice system is whack in a way, caring more about the accused than the victims of the crimes.

That said, there is also the worry of an innocent person being put to death.  Nothing is 100% fool proof, as we know with people convicted of a crime, and then that verdict being overturned by way of new evidence. 

Prisoners should be just that, prisoners.  No TV, no nothing!!!!!  Why should they live in (sometimes) more confort than people who are law abiding citizens.

Anyways, my opinion.

I have never ever agreed with capital punishment...two wrongs don't make a right IMHO . I see no reason why we should debase ourselves and commit the same act as the offender and, therefore make ourselves as bad as them

Always strikes me as being about revenge rather than *justice*

You know the firm I work for supports allegedly 'innocent' people wrongly on death row in the US as part of their pro-bono work...
I don't agree with the death penalty...
I guess I'm just too soft..
I find it hard to explain why I don't agree with it, perhaps it's my blind faith in humanity and I just don't feel that ANY other human could possibly put someone else to death knowingly.
I do understand that it's a very emotive subject, and I might feel completely differently should anyone close to me ever suffer at the hands of a rapist or murderer or similar..
Also as someone who has suffered at the hands of something not very nice, I couldn't say hand on heart that I would like to see that person dead
Really really difficult topic this one.

I see your point, Mel, but when a dog gets pts for attacking a person, why shouldn't a person? After all, the human perpetrator knows exactly what they're doing and the consequences - the dog doesn't. If a human behaves like an animal they should get the same punishment that an animal gets.

I don't see the correlation between dogs and people at all JG ...

I don't agree with the death sentence, taking the point aside that it could be the wrong person convicted of the crime, we have no more right to take a life then the murderer.  No one should be in a position where they are an executioner.

Saying that, life should mean life, with a simple cell, basic food and nothing else.

But if these people weren't in prison they'd be out carrying on the abuse and therefore the cycle begins again.

Hang them all i say.

>life should mean life, with a simple cell, basic food and nothing else.

Unless victims' families can opt out of paying tax to keep the culprits safe and looked after (kennelled for life, as it were) then that seems rather to be rubbing salt into the wound. Lose your child in the most horrific way, then contribute towards maintaining the culprit.

If the culprit, or the culprit's family and friends, were responsible for their upkeep in jail, then life imprisonment would be acceptable.

>I don't see the correlation between dogs and people at all

Animals have no sense of right and wrong - the concept of 'crime' is meaningless to them. Not so with people ('normal' adults, anyway), therefore an offence committed by a person is far more serious than the same one committed by an animal.

We live by morals though, therefore it is NOT our choice as to who lives and who dies ..if we go down that path then we are exactly the same as the criminals who don't live by morals

>Not so with people ('normal' adults, anyway)

Normal people (adults and children) don't kill other people deliberately (ie commit murder)

What about "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"?  :)

I don't support the death sentence either, all those that do here is a thought, would you be prepared to be the one that administered is ?

Death isn't a deterrent, just think of how many convicted murderers etc. commint suicide, or try to and end up being constantly watched because they can't face being locked away

> What about "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"?

Thou shalt not kill :)

Touche!...... :)  But isn't that what the person did in the first place??  :)

And aren't we better than them?

;)

O.K.   ......You win!!  :)  :)  :)

*giggles* :-D :-D

> An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth

comes from the bible, an ancient document that does not conform to peoples current views of appropriate behaviour. times change, our society as a whole focuses less on the medeval concept of corporeal punnishment (physical punnishment) and more on humanistic principals

Good God!!  What was that for?? .........my comment was meant to be lighthearted !!  If we are going to be pedantic...............there is only one 'n' in punishment !!  :)

> An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth
>comes from the bible, an ancient document that does not conform to peoples current views of appropriate behaviour.

So does "Thou shalt not kill". ;-)

If everyone obeyed those 10 simple rules there'd be little need for any other laws, and certainly no need for this debate!

lol sorry, posted before i finished reading the thread...

> If everyone obeyed those 10 simple rules there'd be little need for any other laws

sorry but i totally disagree... honor thy father etc...what if their abusing you? and You shall have no other gods before me... no ta, i think i'll actually have several :)

first off, sorry, realised i just responded to you instead of jeangenie to the post below, sorry!

i wasn't being pedantic i was presenting a position, my apologies if it came across in a strange way, i've been studying this recently (far to much Foucault in my head lol) and it's something i feel very strongly about

i hadn't realised it was intended as light hearted (didn't finish reading the rest of the thread below it, sorry) and everyone had been very serious about it previously.

I agree entirely with you JG.  Whether you are religious or not, if the 10 commandments were to be obeyed by everyone, the world would be a better place!

>If the culprit, or the culprit's family and friends, were responsible for their upkeep in jail, then life imprisonment would be acceptable.

Why on earth should the culprit's family and friends be responsible for their upkeep in prison?  They may be just as much a victim as the victim.  I wouldn't find that acceptable.

We are all supposed to be intelligent human beings; maybe the best way forward is to establish what makes someone commit such terrible atrocities.  Why does a human being become a monster?  We don't need to live like wild animals, because there is plenty to go round.  Maybe if this world was a better place to live and we ALL set a good example, there would be less of it.  

Many OAPs have to go into care and lose everything they've worked for these days, why should they be treated worse than a murderer?   The only 'crime' they've committed is to become elderly and infirm :( :(

Not saying the criminal's family and friends should have to pay, but surely some form of work could be imposed that would at least in part pay for their upkeep ?   In the past didn't there used to be a sentence of 'life with hard labour'?

> would you be prepared to be the one that administered is ?
>
>

YES

>Many OAPs have to go into care and lose everything they've worked for these days, why should they be treated worse than a murderer?   The only 'crime' they've committed is to become elderly and infirm :( :(

That's their own assets thou, not that of their friends and family.   Do we want to create more criminals driven to it because they are left penniless and destitute, kids perhaps?   Poverty is a contributor in some crime.  

>Surely some form of work could be imposed that would at least in part pay for their upkeep ?   In the past didn't there used to be a sentence of 'life with hard labour'?

Yep, I couldn't agree more and if today's prisoners are not working in some form, what on earth are they doing with their time?

>We don't need to live like wild animals, because there is plenty to go round.

Not everywhere.

>Why on earth should the culprit's family and friends be responsible for their upkeep in prison?  They may be just as much a victim as the victim.

It would be their choice. If they chose to support him/her (believing him/her innocent, for example) they would no doubt want to. If they were victims also, then they wouldn't choose to.

Ah, I see :-)

I'm thinking of it in very basic terms JG; comparing with a wild animal who has to kill or be killed to survive.  To sustain the basic fundamental necessities of survival, there is enough to go round in modern Britain.  We don't have many dying of hunger. I appreciate it's different in some parts overseas. 

I am sure no one here would like what I have to say but why hang them when you can use them for something better- so many innocent animals used for animal testing every day for our needs- why? When you can use some one with out a doubt who has done a horrendious crime- I mean the ones that have been proven with out a doubt that they have killed someone, molested, raped ect ect- like Paul Bernardo and John Gacy- who better to test on and get more acurate results- inject them with aids, cancer, what have you and see if you can find a cure- put shampoo in their eye's and see if it will burn-what better speciman then these people, why give them the easy way out! They have no rights cause they took someones a way so to me there rights are now gone!

Sorry just my 2 cents and I know it will never happen but Iam tired of animals being stuck in cages and tortured for our well being when these poeple's are worse then animals and your gonna either keep them in jail, hang them our pts- ridiculas as far as Iam concerned you would get so much better results using them-  The poor animals don't even get off that easy and they never did anything :(

Sorry for the rant :(

I know i started this debate but unfortunately i havent been able to keep up with it- its moving on so fast.And i havent had time to sit and think and write my views.
I completely see both sides of the argument although favour being for the death penalty than against.
I understand that if i commit crime then im going to be punished - if you do the crime you serve the time. The thing i disagree with in this country is the way the punishment doesnt fit the crime. The problem is there are too many prisoners inside and a lack of spaces so many people get out having served just half their sentance and some dont even go to jail as there is no space, even though the crime warranted a custodial sentance. By bringing in the death penalty would get rid of the "lifers" who are taking up valuable space and taxpayers money. This would leave room for the petty criminals, who unpunished go on to bigger crimes.

I dont mind paying tax, however i have an issue with the way the money is handed out. When my Grandad had a stroke they stopped all his benefits/pension etc and as my nan and granded had savings they weren't entitled to that much help from the government, so the majority of my Grandads 24 hour care in a home (becuase he had a sever stroke) was paid for by my nan. it was a lot of money. I would rather put my tax contribution towards caring for the elderly and people who have contributed to our country (and fought a bloody war for us for gods sake!) than to someone who will be kept in jail until their death. Why not just get rid of them. Luckily i have never had experiance of murder in my family, but i think if one of my family was murdered i would feel even stronger that the murderer doesnt deserve a place on this Earth.

I dont think the death penalty does put off criminals, nor is it effective when Americans keep people on Death Row for 25 years before administering the lethal injection. But lets take control of our country and start taking control of our country and handing out appropriate sentances for the crime. Serving 12.5 years for taking someones life is not fair. I dont know what its like inside prison as ive never been inside one, but if they are guranteed food and a bed plus the comfort of not worrying about paying rent and getting money for things like magazines chocolate etc, then its not a bad crack.

>Many OAPs have to go into care and lose everything they've worked for these days, why should they be treated worse than a murderer?   The only 'crime' they've committed is to become elderly and infirm :-( :-(

>That's their own assets thou, not that of their friends and family.   Do we want to create more criminals driven to it because they are left penniless and destitute, kids perhaps?   Poverty is a contributor in some crime. 

I wasn't suggesting that the family and friends of criminals should have to pay for their upkeep, my suggestion was that criminals should pay for their own upkeep - the same as they would have to if they weren't in prison ;)   if they have time to watch tv in prison then they should be earning their keep ;)

Why should OAPs use their own assets tho, if criminals don't have to?   Convicted Criminals made their choice when they committed the crime, OAPs have no choice about getting old and infirm, most of them have contributed in a positive way to society.

> Sorry for the rant

dollface you have only put into words exactly what I have felt for very many years, but have shocked people by saying it.  Good on you!

Dont get me started ......a life for  a life why should we pay for them to eat , drink ,watch telly , play pool and probably take drugs!!

JeanSW 

I have always felt like this- I too had people say that was wrong- but thats how I feel - glad to hear there is more people that feel that way :) To bad you can't make it legal :(