i have a 7mth old german shepherd,hes not aggressive with other dogs,but he is very rough,he pounces all over them,and bites and nips at them,and barks at them if they wont participate, i know hes not aggressive,but he looks it,even though his tail is wagging. i have now taken to keeping him leashed,as a few dog owners have looked on in disgust, so now his recall is terrible when other dogs are around. i now walk him to the field when i know there will be no body around, so i can let him off his leash. but this is defeating the object, and im scared he will never get to run and play with other dogs!
help!!!

Sorry not much time to reply
What about a long lead? Would give you the opportunity to work on recall and allow him to approach other dogs plus shows owners you are not irresponsible but gives you the control to pull him away if need be.
Not sure how successful long leads are with large breeds though?

Have you anyone near you with a well mannered bitch of a large breed who can teach him some manners and how to play nicely or he will get his ears boxed.

Because he is a big dog sadly it does mean you need to take a bit more care with how he is allowed to play.  it is best that he meets other dogs whilst under full control on a loose lead/ long line.  If the other dog is robust enough and as playful as he is or will tell him when he is getting too much you can ask the other owner if they mind him having a game.

If you have him on a long line (20 or 30 feet) he can still play but you can control the intensity.

I would be seeking dogs eh can learn to play with under controlled circumstances such as at your home.  This way you can break things up if they become too rowdy with a stern "enough"

Just interested at what age did he leave his Mum, and does he have any canine companions at home?

hi freds mum, my dog is too called fred!
in response to your answer, i do work with him on a long line(8 meters) we have been doing this for some time, a little while ago i had him on a line and a man with a spaniel asked if he was friendly, i said he was,but explained he was quite rough and boistorous with other dogs, when fred acted in this way with his dog,he got quite shirty with me, i told fred to come back,but he didnt,which resulted in me pulling him in,which was quite an effort,and was told quite snottily by the man,that "that dog will rag you about when hes older" it was quite embarrasing.

thankyou brainless.
i do worry,because he is a big dog, i need to be that little bit more careful.
fred left his mum at 8wks,and he has no canine companions at home, we have a cat, and hes very tough with him too, hes ok till the cat moves quickly. i think fred has a high prey drive!
i have been to the vets to ask about puppy parties,twice now i have been told someone will ring me,but they never do! i think im going to have to book him in for a course of training

My friends dog down the road does this with my boxer but they just let her get on with it!!  She is quite big and is now about 13 months old, he is 17 months and about the same size.  She jumps on him and swings off his jowls and he just stands there and takes it.  He doesn't seem to mind and will happily play with her but tells her when he's had enough.  I used to tell her off but as he tells her off himself then I don't bother. 

My concern was that she hasn't learnt and could do this to a dog that will really take the hump until she met my other dog - a well balanced older bitch.  As Brainless said she took no nonsense and told her off in no uncertain terms and she has not bothered her since.  If she ever gets a bit lairy near her she gets told off and moves out of her space.

My point is (I think!) that as has been suggested an older dog can really help rectify the situation but I think size matching esp with a large breed would be a good idea to avoid possibly injury.  To add, I don't know what she is like with other dogs but she leaves my bitch well alone!!

> a man with a spaniel asked if he was friendly, i said he was,but explained he was quite rough and boistorous with other dogs, when fred acted in this way with his dog,he got quite shirty

Well I can sympathise because he was not being fair, you had warned him and he had agreed, and when it got too rough you stopped it, what more could you have done.

I would continue as you have above, but also get to a training class and preferably get to know some nice shepherd  size dog owning folk with sensible adults that can teach your pup some canine etiquette.

im now in the the process of booking him in for some lessons in april, with the breeders we had him off, they have lots of shepherds he can mix with,and they can teach him the valuable lesson of recall, i fear for the day he could run to another dog and get mauled,all because he didnt have a good recall,or he got boistorous with the wrong dog!

Hi
I have an 18 month old GSP bitch that is VERY in your face.  My 4 year old entire male will tell her off, but by most people's standards he lets her get away with merry hell.  The breed is renowned for playing rough, so maybe it's a German thing!  :-)

Initially I used a friend's spaniel bitch that was a pack leader of five to put her in her place, but sadly this bitch is no more and I have yet to find another that will stand her ground to my girl.  Soooo......plan B!  As my dogs are gundogs they are taught the stop whistle at a very early eage.  This is a stop and sit command.  They have to stop and sit before dinner is served, before they go through a door, before they get in the car....blah blah blah.  So, if I meet someone with a dog and the play starts to escalate I use the stop whistle; this is a thunderer which can break through the red mist of a GSP on a hunt, so is good for distracting.  I get the stop, sit, then go and praise and take a few seconds/minutes to do some Ttouch on the ears to try and calm things down and then let the liver shite go and play again.  She is slowly learning that bullying/rough play means a time out and that if she wishes to continue she has to play NICE.  

reply to shellybel, SNAP I also have a 7 mth GSD who is over the top/rough playing with other dogs, I arranged to take him to someone I know with a couple of adult dogs, He started this with her older male and very firmly got told 'out of my face and behave' took them and her adult lab out for off lead walk/romp and the older dog told him he was too rough a couple of times and he rapidly calmed down, I was a lot happier knowing that mine was not going to try argueing when told off by another dog, and also that her dogs would not take lumps out of him during the telling off!!!.
Trouble is finding other dogs that will do the same. PLEA, anyone with 'nice' adults who live near Bury St Eds-Diss-Thetford and would let us come for a walk with you PLEASE let me know.
Chris

its good to know fred isnt one of a kind then,most GSD's i have seen are behaving calmly!
i think i need to get fred integrated with large adult dogs who will kindly put him in his place,im hoping its not too late when he (fingers crossed)goes to lessons in april.
i would ask somebody at the park if they minded but the park is always very busy with lots of people and dogs,id be too scared in case he ran off after a smaller dog and rough housed them!!....bless him!!!!!!!!! grrrr....lol

its a shame tatty-ead you dont live near derby!!...lol
how is your dog at recall?..mine only comes back if there is nobody around, ive stopped going to the park,and i go to a field where not many people go.

reply to shellybel,
He is ok on recall as long as the other dog is not too near, I have been using a whistle for recall, did the usual - peep and treat at home and in the garden, then out in the middle of a good sniff, then when stalking a bird, only used it 2/3 times in 'anger' when he started towards another dog - just gave a few LOUD peeps, called and ran like H*** away from him!!!............it worked :-).
When we have been out with these other dogs I did try just turning round and walking the opposite way (just to see...) and he turn straight away to come with me. Just a case of patience and perseverence I guess.
Chris

Shelleybell where abouts in Derbyshire are you as I may be able to help with a dog to teach manners.

hi freds mum

I know what your dog needs and that is not to go to the park with all that energy pent up( how old is he?) see what he is doing is letting it all out on other dogs, whats he like on a lead walking with you?  you need to walk him for a long time before you go to the dog park. We call this The Walk. that is the number one thing you should do with ANy dog each day, before affection and food WALK. Try this and let me know how you get on. dog parks are not for spending  the dogs energy, this is how fights start, other dogs can also sense your dogs exitable behaviour, and that is to be discourage. I run a dog club where poeple can get support in Sussex but we also welcome people from all over. First meeting is in March.Good luck!  
PatterdaleGirl :)

hi can you explain in your face?

You are supposed to be your dogs Pack  leader not someone else's dog.

> We call this The Walk. that is the number one thing you should do with ANy dog each day, before affection and food WALK. Try this and let me know how you get on. dog parks are not for spending  the dogs energy, this is how fights start, other dogs can also sense your dogs exitable behaviour, and that is to be discourage. I run a dog club where poeple can get support in Sussex but we also welcome people from all over. First meeting is in March.Good luck!

Hm Freds Mum isn't the OP & the dog is question is a 7 month old GSD Long walks are NOT advisable as this WILL damage the dogs growth plates & lead to joint problems in later life

Humans are not part of dog packs Dogs are aware that humans are not dogs & ergo cannot be the Pack Leader-no matter what Ceasar Milan might think

reply to mud mops, i live in derby its self.

reply to moonmaiden
i only walk my dog(fred) for about 45 mins a day, this includes a run on the field.
the people i had him off offered similiar advice to freds mum, they told me to walk him and then get him to meet other dogs,then he'll be in a more calmer state of mind,it takes 20mins to get to the park,which isnt long enough to tire him out,so hes still too boistorous an rough with other dogs, then if walk any longer to tire him out it can damage his joints!...
i never had this problem with my first dog, he was a terrier,so much smaller,when a small dog is boistorous and rough people think its cute and funny,but as soon as they see a bloomin great big GSD bounding over for a bit of rough-housing, its frightening, i know he has no vicious tendencies, but others dont. i need to get the problem sorted fast,before it makes him worse with dogs.

Unfortunately there is no fast way of making him grow up all you can do is manage the situations to avoid problems, which it seems you already so with the long line and asking people if their dog can play while warning them that he is rough.  It is one of the disadvantages of having a large breed.  I have socialised several of my Friends Dobe pups and it is so sad how quickly people stop thinking they are cute.

LOL Sheeleybel TBH your puppy sounds like a very typical GSD, they do play rough & are very vocal as a breed, my BC's play like GSDs because my oldest was brought up by a GSD bitch. Are there any training clubs near you where there are GSDs ? I don't know if you are near a BAGSD branch they are a specialist GSD club with branches all over the UK & it might be worth going along to your nearest one.

You might want to try tiring his mind rather than his body with mind active games like seek a hidden toy etc

Oooh yes my boy gets absolutely exhausted looking for a toy we have hidden and he LOVES it!!!  Great idea Moonmaiden.

hi shellybel, i do feel for you because i have been there with my GSD. he was "full on" from the minute he could crawl.(should have chosen the quieter one from the litter but we didnt know) anyway hes 5 next week and has calmed down massively but still plays hard if given the chance. once he got to a year old and i realised people were starting to leave the field when i arrived..........i only let him off lead with selected other dogs that were either up for it and enjoyed that kind of play or dogs that told him off and he respected that and left them alone.its been pretty hard but he is such a fantastic dog in every other way and so great with any one.
he still thinks everydog he meets will want to play with him even now so i have to be careful. his obediance is excellent unless a dog approaches him and gets within 10 feet then its hard.

the things that i couldnt have done without are; head collar( hes 50K),training classes every week for 4 years, constant recall training with yummy rewards. and the help of several friends with dogs that let mine interact with them.
i promise it does get easier but not overnight!  xx

Unfortunately Shelleybel I live in the top area of Derbyshire (Derby 1 1/2 hours drive on a good day!)
Good luck with him.

Hi everyone
New to the forum - however I can sympathise with you Shelleybel.

I own a Rhodesian Ridgeback and mine too loves playing rough, in fact the only other dogs who can match him are other Ridgebacks and GSD's!

It will pass, honest, however trying it seems at the moment.  Unfortunately, owning a larger breed means you have to put in triple the effort when training - even then I've still had to explain to other dog owners that my boy was still a puppy no matter how big he was!  If anything since owning a large breed I've tried to get my hands on every book on dog behaviour/body language so I can try and understand how any dog ticks, not just mine.  Just remember no dog is perfect and we've all been through it in one form or another!

thanks folks for all the good advice so far, its all being noted, i know there is no overnight cure, its all hard work,and fun too....lol

I have sent you a private message with details of a GSD Obedience Training Club in Derbyshire (Midland Counties German Shepherd Club - Derby Branch).

well, yes of course,you walk them accordingly, depending on age.. Im sure that she wont walk the puppy till it drops as we all know like toddlers they can only walk so far.

try puppy school. http://www.puppyschool.co.uk/

Hello

I have exactly the same problem with my 6 month old staffy in that she is very boisterous when playing with other dogs.  We went to puppy training classes when she was 4/5 months old but wasnt impressed at all - both ourselves and our Roxy would come away stressed and mentally exhausted.  I have tried the link above, but they have no trainers in Essex.  Can anyone recommend a good Training Class/Trainer in the Loughton, Essex area?

thanks

> Roxy would come away stressed and mentally exhausted

Mentally exhausted = good, stressed?  not so good.  Good luck with finding a better class.

unfortunately, i was not mentally exhausted because of the training excercises but in trying to keep my puppy in check (barking, trying to get to the other already 'obedient' puppies etc), whilst trying to listen to the trainer.  the trainer ignored us except when poking fun at her for being the 'bad student' and concentrated on the more obedient puppies using them as examples in excercises.  He is a well recognised trainer so i dont want to go into too much, and because of this i felt Roxy must be really bad if he cannot help us, thats why i havent tried another training class. 

I meant it is good if the puppy is mentally exhausted, not you LOL :D

It is puppies and people that are easily distracted and need training that need to keep at the classes.

Of course she played up she wasn't trained and was over excited.  Familiarity really does breed contempt.  I would put on a harder skin and ignore comments, some pups are slower to get started but often outshine the quicker ones who may become bored with the whole thing.

the dogs that will benefit most from classes are the oens easily distracted by the other dogs as they will learn to work with the distraction.  Some of those goody ones were probably OTT at first.

the first training class i attended was by a very well known trainer in my area(brentwood) and he almost made me cry and give up. you need to find one that suits your needs, i know there is a good one in epping, if you like i can send you a contact no. x greta

thanks for your comments Brainless, i know that we should get back into a training class and keep at it and we will do that - thanks.  because this 'great' trainer seemed as though he couldnt be bothered with Roxy, i lost heart in it and as it seemed to distress Roxy and we was not getting anywhere after 4 weeks i just gave up.  

yes please can you send me the contact details for the epping training, that will be great.  thanks

Please don't give up after 4 weeks, you need to find the right trainer! My dog was the 'naughty' one in the class, but I stuck at it. It actually took me a whole year to progress out of the puppy/starters class. It was bloody hard work, some dogs are, others are much easier, they are much like children. I WON an obedience competition last year, ran at my local club, I compete regularly at agility shows & am so proud of what I have achieved. I actually feel I have achieved much more than others who have had 'easier' dogs to train. I bought an enormous cork board for my rosettes & now find it's absolutely full, I need another one.

thanks beardy
i would have stuck at it and wouldnt have minded that she was the 'naughty' one of the class but not getting any help from the trainer and being pushed out, there didnt seem much point in carrying on. 
Congratulations with your persistence and competition winning : )  it gives me encouragement and I am going to see a different trainer - you never know with perceiverance and lots of hard work we may get there.  tHanks

i went to the field yesterday with fred and my friend bought her dog too,shes a staffy cross, fred was doing so well,he was coming back sometimes when called(which is more than before) and he played lovely,no where near as rough as normal,i kept him amused with his ball,but then my friends dog wanted the ball,she hadnt got one,she kept running off with it,fred was good though,ne never pestered too much for it back,my friend finally caught her dog and got the ball back,but her dog thought fred had it and attacked him,shes only a pup her self,6mths,the attack was nasty,making my dog yelp,i had to get the staffy cross off my dog and check him for cuts, but bless his little heart,he did not offer once to bite her back,or snap at her,so i was very proud of him for that,im just scared now that my dog is going to get in there first with other dogs if he gets into the same situation again,surprisingly for once,my dog wasnt being over rough either,but he has been with this dog in the past,do you think this could be why she attacked him.

I normally take an extra ball with me. So if one gets nicked ( whicj happens 50% of the time ) my dogs ae not distracted by it cos I have an extra ball..sometimes I take two extra with having two dogs just to make sure.

There are some dogs who nick off with the ball so frequently (before I gave up and took extra balls to the park )I have had to teach my dogs to use the ball the other dog dropped. So now when mine see thosse dogs they get excited knowing it is ball swapping time. The invading dogs will stay around now and I've taught them to give me the ball so I can throw it for them too rather than them just runn off into the sunset.

When they are adolescents ball orientated dogs can become posessive over the ball, it is an issue you need to train for, bt to some extent I find the more dominant dog just has the canine god given right to the ball so I tend to go with that. My boy is a wimp and he will give the ball up to almost every dog, my girl will only submit it to high ranking dogs. People ee too much and over react to the dog commuication and ranking. When you hhave more dogs you see how they act together and it is not all sweetness and passiveness, but neither is it hostility and aggresson. The follow rules and carefully read body launguage/expression in a constant game of one upmanship. So you don't need to baby your dog cos another dog had a dispute. in her eyes the ball was her ball because under the canine law it was hers and the fuss given to her foir stealing the ball reinforced the value of her prize.  When we are training our dogs we are replacing or translating canine law into a human law. When we introduce one trophy into an untrained dog pack situation we are really tempting fate. It was a consequense of the situation the dogs were put into.

Next time no attention for the thief and lots for your dog, another ball or play of some kind. Both dogs need training. A 6 month old dog should know how to give back a ball and should respond to leave before they even pick it up.  And you really need to be feeling very confident and possitive when you go out with your dog so do join a club amd get training if you haven't already.

my dog does know how to give a ball back,and he leaves it when i tell him too,he'd even drop it for my friends dog,its just infuriating when the other dog attacks him when hes doing as hes told,my main concern is i dont want him picking up this bad habit.
i know he needs training in other areas,this is all in hand now.hopefully he starts next month.
but if other people fail to get their dog trained,what am i to do? im being the responsible owner,i always keep my dog on a long line so i can control him,because his recall and bounciness(hence the thread) can cause a problem with other dogs/owners,theres not much more i can do.
grrrrrr!...lol

Sorry I was refering to the other dog who you said was 6 months old about learning to give the ball back. And explaining why the other dog reacted in that way. It sounds like it wasn't an attack or you would be off to the vets with your dog for surgery. It was natural canine trophey orientated communication. Your dog won't pick up the habbit because this is a naural canine behaviour that your dog will be born with too and if he already knows retrieve and leave and been trained then you have already replaced the unwanted trait with your wanted trait and so he will not be in the situation of fighting for a ball.

A habbit only develops over time , so if a behaviour goes unstopped or rewarded, the one offs are really good because these are our opportunities to direct the dog away from the unwanted traits to the wanted behaviours.   ( eg. the other dog was rewarded with attention for stealing the ball therefore the behaviour is reinforced and will grow stronger each time this is repeated until it is a habbit and it will always steal balls. Had the situation been used by the owner involved to train the dog better then in future it would be less inclined to steal the ball in future.  )

I actually like mine to tell another dog where to go if they try to nick off with our ball and I certainly would not see that as an unwanted trait. So I  do not tell mine off for reprimanding a badly behaved pup. But normally I just get out ball no 3 or 4 and it is as though there is no other dog stealing our ball. Problem solved. 


That is why I said take another ball. You can train your own dog, you can't train other dogs or alter how other owners like theor dogs to behave. We all just have to acceot it as it is and find ways to compromise and work around other dogs. Otherwise you end up getting angry because it is frustrating. So just stay chilled and go with the flow.

Parks are full of drive up and open the car door and spill out the dog type of owners, and many dogs walk only in the local park twice a day 7 days a week so they develop their own ways. The only way to avoid it is to avoid parks and well populated dog waking areas. 

All dogs will be naughty at some point so have some grace for others and they will return this to you when your dog is naughty..hopefuly anyway.lol.

thankyou tenaj
ive already stopped going to the over populated parks where loads of dogs go, we now go to a field up the road theres not many dogs that go there,and the ones that do seem(so far) to be responsible owners.
im going to the pet shop later,to stock up on lots of red balls......so if any get nicked,we have 1 2 3 or 4 back ups...lol

it is frustrating when other dogs act in this way,i know its only a canine trait,and not the dogs fault,but it does p**s me off slightly,as i try my hardest to stop fred annoying other dog walkers and dogs,i only let him play with other peoples dogs on a very very rare occasion as hes  way too rough,bless him, i always warn them first,more often than not they steer their dog away anyway.

oh well........its a dogs life...lol...
deep breaths.........stay chilled..
.x.

You can get 3 rubbery balls for about 2 quid from Asda (might be cheaper than you pet shop).  I get these as my older dog crunches up anything else whereas she can mouth these and nothing happens.  They also fit perfectly in one of those ball chucker things, depending on how much exercise your dog is allowed with respect to age etc.
And they're brightly coloured so easy to see. 

Unless you loose them/another dog steals them they last for ages with my two!

thanks georgepig
i'll take a look in asda
i hope they do red or pink,hes partial to those colours...lol
i shant be putting one in them ball chucker things, hes bone idle,if i throw it too far,i end up running for it myself....bless him....not!

Oh yes I'm often the one ball collecting while the dogs are looking for it at the other side of the park LOL!

lol georgepig, ive been there many times myself, although there is one benefit,ive lost a few pounds running for the ball,beats the gym i suppose...lol