Just wondered what people opinions are on hanging?

Recently it has been in the news and also the popular argument has come up of shouldn't "life" mean life/why use taxpayers money to keep a prisoner in jail until their death?

Thought it could be an interesting debate.......

I don't have any problem with Capital punishment as such and agree with it in principle. However, i don't believe it should be brought back for a number of reasons, the main one being the risk of someone innocent being sentenced to death.

Also, despite what people generally think, it costs far more to sentence someone to death, keep them on death row and execute them than it does to keep someone in prison for life.

Animals which kill are quietly put down. No vindictiveness or causing of pain - just remove them from the earth. There's no place in the world for some of these murderers so just get rid of them.

Now that forensic evidence has advanced so much and has been used to great effect by the prosecutions in these recent convictions I think the 'doubt' of guilt has been removed so convicting innocent people for these crimes is very very unlikely.
I for one would welcome some form of death penalty (Hanging, lethal injection, electrocution etc) for the perpetrators of the evil crimes, they do not deserve to live.

I don't believe we should have the death sentence. The definition of murder is the premeditated taking of another person's life and, to me, I can't see that the death sentence is anything but that and I don't believe that you can justify any type of intentional killing of another person. Just because a death is sanctioned by the law doesn't make it any different to any other killing in my book.

DNA has been wrongly interpreted in the past, as have other forms of forensic testing, and is not infallible. The chance of carrying out a death sentence on an innocent person is very small nowadays but I would not want to be a part of a system where there is the possibility, however small, that an innocent person may be "murdered" with the blessing of the judiciary system.

I do think life should mean life with no ifs, buts or maybes.

There have been very recent convictions that have later been proved wrong. Admittedly tthe likelihood of it happening is very small, but ti could still happen.

One person wrongly sentenced to death is too many. Imagine if it were your husband/father/brother.

It's the wrongful convictions that are frightening.  I have no problem with euthanizing a creature that is irredeemable and has killed or tortured, of any species.  But our friend was the centre of a world wide reknowned case where a 14 year boy was charged with the rape and murder of a 12 year old girl and the boy was sentenced to hang.  His sentence was commuted to life in prison and then Canada repealed it's death sentence.  He was quietly released from prison at about age 20ish (would have to go look that exact age up).  That boy was aquitted last summer and is finally a free man, at age 62.  He did not kill or rape anyone and the courts could not prove he did.  My OH grew up with that boy and knows many of the principals in the case, including the poor girl and by remarkable co-incidence the chief investigating officer.  We believe whole heartedly in the boy's innocence.  Hopefully new murder cases will not be as badly mishandled as that one was so many years ago but we hear of wrongful convictions being overturned on a regular basis, yes, thanks many times to DNA evidence.  DNA was not available in our friends's case due to all evidence being mysteriously "lost" or destroyed.

I think that hanging should be brought back - re wrongful convictions, perhaps have something in place were hanging can only be undertaken when the evidence is 100% solid - other cases should be given LIFE sentences. I believe that if capital punishment was re-enforced, serious crime would drop dramatically anyway.

If they didn't thinkt he evidence in cases was 100% solid, people wouldn't go to prison int he first place.

As for saying if capital punishment was re-enforced, crime would drop anyway, the USA has the highest rates of violent crime of anywhere int he world, yet the death penalty stands in most states.

I don't think it should be brought back but I do feel that some kind of punishment should be allowed to deter offenders.  Even at a younger age I think more should be done to deter people, nowadays no-one can do anything, not even the police to deter children and many run riot because they know that they can.

Our society will soon be where people can sue for even minor incidents which is quite scary!

Personally, I feel hanging is barbaric, it may be quick, but it just conjures up a method used before others were invented, I wonder why it has been plucked out as the death penalty punishment for us to vote on, perhaps because many of us would not wish it to be used?

The lethal injection I am all for, and I definitely would vote for it to be used on dangerous offenders, no worries whatsoever! Why keep people who can not be put back into society alive, well fed and cared for for the rest of their lives, better than many law abiding citizens.

I won't vote for hanging, I don't like it, I don't like the electric chair either so would not vote for that, but the lethal injection you can have my vote.

I believe that if capital punishment was re-enforced, serious crime would drop dramatically anyway.

America has the death sentence and has a huge problem with violent crime.

This newspaper article is quite interesting reading
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V113/N53/morrison.53o.html

Texas, Florida, and Louisiana are among the leaders nationwide in executions -- and lead the nation in murders per 100,000 people. quoted from the article

I'd give them the option of taking their own lives. If they knew that life really did mean life (like the recent awful case) then I'd let them take an overdose if that's what they wanted. I'm sure that many of the family & friends of the victims would prefer they paid the price by staying in prison but personally I'd rather get rid of the scum.
They cost thousands and thousands to keep in prison - a few pills costs almost nothing.
At least the choice of death is theirs rather than putting the responsibilty in the hands of a hired hangman/executioner.

I don't like the thought of killing an innocent person, but I also don't like the thought of keeping a monster alive. Someone who has done something horrendous should be punished by death. I like the idea of giving them the chance to die, but again, if they were suffering from severe depression and they were actually innocent, wouldn't they still rather die than live in jail for the rest of their lives? My mind is still not made up on this one.

Well it certainly wouldn't be me who would 'press the buttton' or whatever else it may be.
Nor would it be me who asked anyone of you to do it!
I simply dont believe it's our place.

Karen ;-)

Mmmm I wil sit on the fence as see the pro and cons and can't really make my mind up.

One thing I would do in the mean time is take away any priviledges they have in prison and leave them in a basic cell with nothing to read or write or people to talk to.

If they are true lifers there is no need to train them to become pillars of society as they will have lost that priviledge the day they murdered a person.

I agree with Lucy about taking away privilages in prison.

As for capital punishment, I'm kind of sat on the fence too. Yes I agree to it to a certain extent but like someone else said what about the wrongly convicted? I know of someone who is in prison on a 'life' sentence. He will be out 15 years after he went in and  deep down I still do not believe he did the crime. But if he did then life should mean life. Not 15 years.

Maybe if they were given chance to an appeal and if the evidence was still too strong to prove their innocence maybe then would be the time to think about capital punishment. But as for the tellys, playstations and other perks in prison...they should all be got rid off.

I'm torn on the idea of the death sentence, I can see the economic argument for it because of the cost of proper 'life' imprisonment (£30k per year I understand) but while there is still a chance that an innocent person could be sentenced to death I don't think I can support it.

I would like to see prison as a true deterrent to crime though, a roof over the prisoners head, an exercise yard and 3 basic meals per day should be all they are allowed. I also beleive all of their assets should be seized to help cover the cost of their stay. And none of this time off for good behaviour, they should be expected to behave well for the full sentence, and if they don't they should have time added.

I'd be interested to hear people's views on the article in the link below - this man was wrongly imprisoned, released and then sent a bill for his keep whilst in prison.

http://www.daventrytoday.co.uk/news/Prison-charge-is-39ridiculous39.3651803.jp

a friend of ours is a prison warden. Where he works, the staff had the toaster removed from the staff room as prisoners complained the smell made them hungry.................???

It is a difficult subject but something needs to be done  :-(

Absolutely ridiculous The woman who wrongly accused him should be made to pay :-(

Justice is not about revenge. Bringing it back would breach human rights, anyway.

I think people's human rights should be thrown out the window if they commit cold blooded murder IMHO :-) What about their victim's human rights ? They haven't got a chance of speaking out about how their has been breached ;-)

When people commit such evil crimes they forfeit their 'human rights'. It's their own choice.

> if capital punishment was re-enforced, serious crime would drop dramatically anyway.

america has a much higher violent crime rate than the uk, they still have it in places. not done much good there. people who commit violent crimes are not looking into the future and they certainly arn't put off by the concequences of being caught.

Nietzsche states that punishment is retribution for crimes but also a "festival"- it reinforces the non devient nature of the rest of us an we can rejoice in our non criminal natures. becoming murderers ourselves rather taints that right to celebrate. personally i agree that actively causing someones death is murder and i would not wish to taint my own soul with someones death- we look down on those who commit crimes like murder, why stoop to their level? i also believe that a quick end is to merciful for many of these crimes.

> When people commit such evil crimes they forfeit their 'human rights'

human rights apply to everyone because WE (the non criminal element) chose to apply them because there is a certain acceptable standard of life for all human beings- once again its not about them, its about the people we are.

besides, what crimes are we talking here? i bet there are a few differeing views. personally for me the major crimes that IF i agreed with capital punnishment (i don;t) would be murder, rape and paedophilic abuse- but then there are MASSIVE grey areas in all of these crimes, what crime (or degree of crime) gets what punnishment?

Beyond reasonable doubt is not 100%.  I think it should be brought back for those who can be tried with 100% certainty.

But what constitutes 100% certainty?

Other than that, what you are effectively saying is that it is OK to lock someone up for what might be 30 years plus when we aren't 100% certain they commited the crime, but not to kill them. And that we would kill those where we were 100% sure they commited the crime, but not those who MIGHT have done/probably did do it, but we couldn't be 100% sure. So, in other words, in the really pre meditated cases of murder, the ones some might say are even more evil than the rest, where the perpetrator had taken the time to plan things and hide/destroy evidence, so that things could not be proved beyond reasonable doubt, the death penalty woul dbe escaped as it couldnt' be proved 100%.

Again I am someone who would worry in case the wrong person was convicted and was killed!

That said dna evidence is extremely reliable now, I would definately like to see prisoners locked in a concrete cell with no comforts etc they shouldn't have rights once they break the law!

I get very worried when I hear the cry of "bring back the death penalty". It is proven that the death penalty does not act as a deterrant. So why that particular sentence? Retribution. But I'm sure that many have found killing in revenge to leave them empty and not with the satisfaction they thought it would.

Isn't that the sentence that was cried out for in the case of the Guildford 4? Even with DNA advances we cannot be 100%. Conviction is still down to a jury and juries can be wrong.

Plus there is the cruel and unusual punishment question. Did anybody see that programme with Michael Portillo where he did experiments relating to the current methods of execution (although I think they missed a trick when they saved him from oxygen deprivation)? The lethal injection is not a nice shot of morphine. It has 3 separate stage and can take about 20 minutes and the prisoner is paralysed but possibly able to feel pain throughout. Doctors do not administer the injection due to that pesky "And ye do no harm..." bit of the Hippocratic Oath. So it is left to technicians who often mess up the procedure. The electric chair is no better. Often the prisoner will need more than one shock to die and suffer massive burns as a result. The gas chamber- it is possible, if one cooperates, to pass out before the cyanide gas causes convulsions but think about it, could you really willingly participate in your own execution? Hanging... well there's the possiblity that the rope is too short so the neck is not broken and the prisoner dies slowly of asphyxiation... or you can make the rope too long and rip the prisoner's head clean off. I'm fairly sure you wouldn't want the guillotine brought back but that would possibly be the best method barring nitrogen asphyxiation which is painless. Most people will not consider introducing nitrogen asphyxiation as it causes a form of euphoria before death and that is unacceptable because people want the prisoner to suffer. The death penalty degrades us all as human beings as it is merely a base form of revenge, regardless of how many people pretend it is for the greater good, a deterrant or whatever else.

Let's also not forget that the Americans love to execute those that were minors at the time they committed the crime as well as those considered mentally deficient. What would stop that from happening here?

I am not in favour of giving prisoners sky TV and luxuries (I don't even have sky myself!) but I also think that prisoners should be able to live without the fear of rape, beatings and drug dependence while in prison. Unfortunately the prison system in itself tends to cause a vicious cycle of reoffending as putting prisoners together allows them to discover more ways of committing crime. The only real way to stop this would be to put the prisoners all in seclusion for 23 hours a day with 1 hour exercise but of course this is impossible.

Then we may as throw out human rights all together. Let's torture prisonors of war, hell they asked for it!

>Then we may as throw out human rights all together.

Certainly we should throw out the Human Rights Act - the one that allows burglars to sue homeowners if they (the burglars) injure themselves while committing their crimes!

When a person is so warped they repeatedly take away other people's right to life - the Ultimate human right - then it obviously means nothing to them. Then they can't object to losing their own.

Is that disregarding mental health issues? Life is no where near that black & white.

As I said, justice is not revenge. An eye for an eye does not work - dead people don't come back once you kill someone & you are certainly no better for doing it. What kind of morals does it teach people? That we should be afraid of the government & officials?

I rather the Human Rights Act, thanks. At least its trying to go forward & develop civilisation instead of bringing it back to the Dark Ages.

Death penatly tends to take 20 years before it is administered in America.
Nut another thought,
Someone foulnd guilty (I think it was the guy who killed a women then had S$$ on her dead body was found guilty/. Now, on our expense, he is being kept warm, comfortable bed (human rights ) TV, fed, Maybe TV in his room, etc etc etc etc  And doesnt have to pay for anything.
Now SORRY butr that SUCKS. Ok he has lost his freedomw, but thats all he has lost, he now has a better life than alot of other people have, No worry about money no worry about paying mortgage rent etc, and I bet at least half of us cant say that!!!!
He lost all rights when he did the evil act (and this is the same for anyone that commits murder) But has more human ruights than single mums, People struggling to make ends meet through no fault of their own struggling to live etc etc etc.
Lea :(

> Is that disregarding mental health issues? Life is no where near that black & white.

Nope but then that goes onto another issue where alot of the mental health hpospitals have been closed and they go into care in the community, but the care in the community is more someone checking on them once a week and if they are not in they wait another week!!!!
A totally different aspect on things!!!
Lea :)

Hanging isn't a nice thing, but the lethal injection is just as barbaric. It's painful and the pain lasts. The death penalty does not deter crime. If someone wants to kill someone they will. If they know they will get death why not kill a few more people as well ... it's not like they themselves can be killed more than once. Why not be remembered for it. Also the incidents of people being wrongly convicted is surprisingly high. Also in America Excuting someone costs a lot more money than keeping them in prison for the rest of their lives - on death row they have maximum security and they are all entitled to 5 appeals processes each one taking about 5 years ... which is why the minimum time spent on death row is usually 25 years.

Whilst our CJS system could do with some change, bringing back the death penalty wouldn't change a thing.

But what constitutes 100% certainty? Just that 100% evidence.

what you are effectively saying is that it is OK   I don't think I said that at all :-)

Do you mean,  that is how you interpretated?

I gave you a factual quote from our legal system.

So, in other words, No just the same ones as I said Jackson ;-)

I think America has a lot bigger trouble that it's method of punishment.   I don't think it fair to say that the legal system hasn't helped.

It is a big big place. We are just a pond in the ocean really.

I think spending my whole life in prison would be worse than being put out of my misery with the death penalty. Bringing back capital punishment wouldnt change anything,just as it hasnt in the US.People who commit crimes usually always think they're not going to get caught!!
There are many battered women on death row in America.They killed their husbands after suffering years of mental and physical abuse..I dont think they deserve the death penalty.

Then we may as throw out human rights all together. Let's torture prisonors of war, hell they asked for it!

That comes under the Geneva Convention and is not pre-meditated murder by one individual.

Buzz wrote: Hanging isn't a nice thing, but the lethal injection is just as barbaric. It's painful and the pain lasts. This is mainly because of the way they do it and the drugs they use it could be made painless, hanging if done correctly is meant to be painless and very quick it just appears to be barbaric.

Having said that I'm completely against capital punishment, it is premeditated murder by the state and makes us no better than the criminals.  There is no proof it acts as a deterrent just look at the numbers of murders as a proportion of the population in the States compared with Canada.  There is a risk you will execute innocent people (it has been estimated that up to 10% of people on death row in the States are innocent of the crimes they were convicted of).  It also tends to be biased against the poorer sections of society, basically if you can afford a good lawyer you've a better chance of not getting the death sentence, this was the case in the UK while we still had capital punishment it's a lot worse in the States.

Totally agree with shadbolts and others of similar leaning.

I watched an interview a few years back with an ex prison warden, prison chaplain, death row guards and those involved in administering various forms of execution and none of them had a remorely positive view on capital punishment :(  All had experienced horrific sights (sounds & smells too) and felt they would be forever haunted by their memories.

While I can't begin to imagine how I would feel if ever anyone close to me was murdered or s#xually abused (I'm under no illusions - "forgiveness" would be a tall to impossible order!) I would hope and pray that the criminal's incarceration would be sufficient penalty for me to move on ...... but who knows.

Teri

saluki pup that was a brilliant post, totally agree with you

shadbolts wrote > It also tends to be biased against the poorer sections of society

and against ethinic minorities

> That comes under the Geneva Convention

actually torture of any kind comes under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948)

> One person wrongly sentenced to death is too many. Imagine if it were your husband/father/brother

Not getting at Kirstie, but isn't it interesting that the above assumes a male murderer?  What about Rosemary West, Myra Hindley etc.

That's a very interesting point. Has anybody seen Nick Broomfield's documentaries about serial killer Aileen Wuornos? It is clear from the documentaries that the woman had committed terrible crimes but in his second documentary about her (Aileen: Life and Death of a Serial Killer) it becomes clear as she approaches her execution that she has become completely unhinged. She is convinced the guards are poisoning her and there are listening devices in her cell. She keeps saying she is guilty and deserves to die but when she thinks the cameras are off she says that she didn't commit all of the crimes and she is going along with the authorities and has given up appealing because she just wants an end to it all. It is worth noting that the first murder she was convicted of she claimed she had been raped by the victim (she was a prostitute) and killed him in self defence. It turned out that the man was guilty of sex offences in another state but this was inadmissible in her defence.

Sorry for going a bit off topic there but I very much recommend the documentary both as a study of a killer descending into madness and as a critique of the capital punishment system in the US.

Personally, I don't believe that anyone should be on death row for 25 years.  It's an obscene waste of money to feed and keep a murderer.  Appeals taking 5 years is ridiculous.  Death sentence should mean death sentence, and within a limited time.  For those that find some methods barbaric, and worry about the suffering of the murderer before death, remember that some murderers enjoy torturing victims, and recording it, so families have the memory of how much suffering went on before their loved one was eventually killed.

But just think, in this country, someone who has done premadetated murder, can be sentanced to life impirsoment and then released after 25 (this is more them some but I havnt google to find out how many years) years back into the community to live beside anyone of us.
In this country life doesnt mean life even to the premeditated torture killings :(
I would rather pay for someone to be in jail for 25 years and then execute as if in the 25 years they havnt convinced anyone they are innocent then I am positive in my mind they are not!!!!!!
Lea

the majority of violent crimes are conducted by men, though i agree we shouldn't assume

I read somewhere about an author (can't remember the name of hand) who went visiting prisons and said that they were full of abused victims reinacting their abuse.   This is a sick world and unfortunately sickness for some is internalised for whatever reason. 

Yes we could hang them all and they'd be plenty lined up to take their place, but we are not addressing the problem at its source.   Criminals are a by product of the world we live in, but that doesn't make it right or acceptable.  

I don't feel comfortable stooping to their level by killing them for killing someone else, fine example to send to the young - 2 wrongs don't make it right.  There are much worse fates than death - bland prisons, no perks, rehab, hard manual labour and bill them for their keep.