Lately I've found several Sibe breeders in my area advertising that their dogs are trained to be walked on or off lead. I started looking for ads after a friend of my mother announced that she is getting a sibe pup and that when she met the breeders dogs on a walk they were all let off lead. As soon as I heard this I tried to point them in the direction of the relevant Sibe clubs and told them to do lots more research. They've gone ahead and apparently I'm wrong, the dogs all had very good recall. I was tempted to contact them myself and quiz them but then thought what's the point?

No no no no no! You are right and those breeders are being big idiots and irresponsible advising people that sibes can be let off the lead. Even if the owners do have dogs with perfect recall there is no guarentee the puppies will be the same. Sibes should not be let off the lead unless it is in a fully enclosed secure area with fences of a minimum of 6 foot although this is often not high enough. Too many owners are lulled into a false sense of security with their Sibes and let them off and yes there recall may be fantastic for days, weeks, months, even years but it takes that one time for them to see something more interesting or decide not to listen to you (Sibes are often very stubborn and only do something if they think there is something in it for them) and thats it - no more husky. I know of owners this has happened to and heard of others. They have lost a wonderful dog for ignoring research and advice and thinking there dog is completely trained. As far as I am concerned no husky can ever be trusted off the lead. I have 2 and know there is no way Missy would come back (shes too much of a busybody) but suspect Zak might but I am no way going to try it. I walk them on a very long lead so they get the chance to run and yes I do sometimes feel sorry for them not being able to be let off the lead but I chose to own this breed and researched both the positives and negatives for years before buying a puppy so know what I was getting into. I do though want to start training them to pull a scooter as an alternative way of exercising them  - IMHO if you want your Sibes to run and there is no enclosed area this is the safe alternative.

I don't own the breed but everything I've ever read backs up what you've just said and exactly what I've tried to get across to them. I've been told the owner intends to cycle with the dog, lets hope he see's sense & uses a springer or similar. The breeders on the other hand...
As far as the dog scooter I'd say go for it, great fun. I end up completely filthy as mine doesn't have mud guards but it's good exercise for me & the dog.

>if you want your Sibes to run and there is no enclosed area this is the safe alternative.

it shouldnt be a case of folk "wanting" their sibes to run, surely if you take on a breed such as this you must be prepared to either run them with a rig/scooter, or bike with them or have access to somewhere with an enclosed area where they can have a daily run in safety.  I see so many sibes these days being walked on flexi leads around housing estates, its so sad. 

Sorry for sounding soooooo stupid but what are the risks of them being off the lead!

Just intersted!???

surely no breed of dog is 'ever' 100% safe off lead?

> what are the risks of them being off the lead

Sibes are bred to run - fast over long distances. However well trained they are this instinct is bred into them and if they want to run they will do. Sibes love running! They will literally run themselves to death. As I mentioned in my other post they are a stubborn breed and will only do something if they think they there is something in it for them - including returning to the owner. They are also not very loyal to their owners and are certainly not one man dogs. Don't got me wrong they love people but thats the problem they love all people so have no particular desire to return to there owner - anyone will do!

> Sorry for sounding soooooo stupid but what are the risks of them being off the lead!
>
> Just intersted!???

I have a breed that is prone to selective hearing as they are a dog that ranges ahead of the hunter, but keep contact at regular intervals and inevitably finds you, but the difference being they will mooch somewhere within earshot, and have a great sense of direction.  A Siberian will cover a lot of distance in a straight line before it stops to wonder where they left you, and won't know where it is.  They also have a very strong predatory instinct and no small furry is usually safe.

> I see so many sibes these days being walked on flexi leads around housing estates, its so sad.

I completely agree. We have a large garden for our two plus I mentioned they are walked on a very long lead when out. Now they are at a suitable age I want to start training them to run with a scooter as I truely believe this is the best exercise for this breed as its what they have been breed to do. Plus my OH has a massive barn for his business which is completely secure and they often go to work with him and have a good run round.

If I am just nipping out with them then yes I do use a flexi lead and try and choose a route where they have a chance to have a run on these but this is by no means their regular daily exercise whereas for so many dogs of this breed a quick walk round the block on a flexi lead is all they get day in day out.

Thanks

> surely no breed of dog is 'ever' 100% safe off lead?

Personally i don't think any dog is 100% safe off the lead but some are certainly more reliable and trustworthy than others.

I have seen a guy near me run with the dog, Harness attatched!

We have seven Siberians currently and of these, one is trustworthy 99% of the time of-lead. It is the 1% that is the problem. In the 15 years we have been in the breed, we have known several people who have been 100% sure that they could trust their dogs off lead, only to find that, given the right circumstances, they have disappeared over the horizon.
We do a fair amount of film and advertising work with our Sibes, and they are off-lead for most of that time.  Even so, we make sure that the area is safe and secure.
Siberians can be trained to go off lead, but they will never be 100% trustworthy and the majority of novice owners would be incapable of training their sibes to that degree.

i think all the advise on here is spot on from sibe owners
i trained my boy hard as a pup + he had a good recall - untill the hunting instinct kicked in
sibes have a very strong natural prey instinct + the natural desire to run + run + run - believe me the last thing is a loose sibes head is 'ooh wheres me mum!'
i learnt the hardway about siberians natural instincts, he never goes off his lead now - well unless i can ever find somewhere safe to do so
the best thing ive found for my sibe is to run him with an attachment to my bike - he loves it
imho nothing gives a predominantly working breed more pleasure than to do exactly what is was bred for
i would always advise anyone thinking of taking on a breed such as a sibe to do sooo much homework + research - there are enough of these dogs wasting away in unsuitable homes alreay

I've said all of this to them but I'm going to print off this thread and pass it on as my advice fell on more or less deaf ears!
My frustration is directed towards the breeders but I've been told to keep out of it by my OH.

>I have seen a guy near me run with the dog, Harness attatched!

its called caniX, I do it with my two Setters, its very popular with sibe and malamute owners

I have a friend who has a siberian husky, bought from a breeder who lets hers off and says its fine to let them off as long as you do it from a young age.

Unfortunately, that is a really common mistake. Siberian Husky puppies will quite often give the appearance of being well-behaved, obedient dogs with good recall. Then - at about 1yr old, they turn into teenagers and all bets are off.
By all means train them to recall - we do this with all ours, but don't trust that recall in unsecured areas. As countless heartbroken Siberian owners have found to their cost and permanent regret, your sibe only has to disobey you once - cross a busy road and the rest is history. It really is not worth the risk.

You'd think these owners would rather leave them on the lead than risk them going off lead and losing them/dog getting injured. When i was at puppy training there was a women who used to let her tiny puppy off lead and go for a hours run every day (dog was about 10 weeks old). No matter how many times she was told it was irresponsible and would damage the dogs long term bones/joints/health she still did it. Im slightly digressing from the point about sibes but the point im making is some people dont care and do what they want regardless of the information and recommendations. Those are normally the people that do little or no research, then there are the rest of us who listen to other people, are open to advice and new ideas and would rather air on the side of caution for the sake of our animal.

There's a gorgeous 7 month old Sibe I meet on walks whose owners let him off - his recall isn't bad but I predict a tragedy one of these days :(

When I got chatting to them I said about Sibes not really being suitable to let offlead, and they said  "Oh yes that's what we had heard but he seems fine so far" - I did make noises about being careful, the teenage stage etc but they seem confident so what can you do?  :(

I have come across the same in my country park, but the ones off lead are invariably youngsters.

I feel if the breed club feel so strongly they should not let them off then people really ought to take that on board.

I suspect these so called breeders say this as many people would not buy a pup if they realised.

There are people in my own breed who don't let their dogs off and others who have large and safe enough walking areas to contain a ranging Elkhound, but an off lead Elkhound goes off on a mooch sniffing and keeping a weather eye on where you are, and will keep coming back to make contract, they are not into running.  I have just one that is a pain off lead as she will watch you all the while making you wait on her pleasure, as after 8 years she knows I won't leave her (afraid she would get run over if the followed me out of the park).

Sight hounds can be a challenge off lead because of their propensity to run after moving stimulus but seem to do pretty well in less open off lead areas.  A lot of scent hounds and Terriers can go selectively deaf, but again it tends to be within a safer range.  People have to work with the dogs instincts.

I know someone who has ex racing greyhounds. Part of the deal when they adopted was to NEVER let them off the lead. They think they know better and let them off. The dogs regularly run after rabbits, deers but the owners dont give a s**t. Really annoys me.
How can you tell these people when they dont wanna know?!

My lurcher was a nightmare to start with, being prone to chasing anything, especially other dogs. I did manage eventually to divert his prey drive onto toys and after that, he was pretty good, in fact I'd be going  "Ooo look, go and have a run  with that nice greyhound over there"  and he'd be bouncing about going  "Throw my toy throw my toy throw my toy!!!!!"

But then Lurchers don't tend to keep running - even if they're chasing something they expend so much energy zigzagging about that once they've lost their quarry they come back and want to go home for a nap LOL!

Is the same true for malamutes regarding keeping them on the lead?

i sometimes walk my collies in a park in the middle of cardiff, theres often a couple of sibes pottering around off of the lead, with their owner having a sit down. They look more of a "show" type, if that makes any difference i dont know. My main point being this park has roads on all sides & a road running almost all through it!!!!

Georgepig : Yes, the same scenario's exactly with Mals :) :)

I let my Malamutes off lead as do several of my friends some who have been in the breed for many years.
My dogs are trained on a daily basis - to a higher standard than many dogs as they compete in obedience. I have never had any issues whatsoever with my dogs not coming back and certainly my Mally girl has been much easier than my Lab - never went thru the wandering off with strangers phase as a youngster, she certainly does not run in a straight line, as my collie she plays in circles round me and is probably never further than 30 metres from me at any point.

I do not see myself as an irresponsible owner, although one of the reasons that I will not have a husky is because I believe the instinct to run and go deaf is much much stronger in this breed, friends who have both tend to agree with me.

I have heard the same that the Mals are less fixated on keeping going, and can be reasonably good off lead in the right circumstances.

Yes Mals can be trained, I do have friends (BusyDoggs for example)  who also let theirs off lead regularly, I do with 2 of mine, I still dont trust them 100% though & still only let them off in an area that I can see at least 2 miles around me, constantly call them back to me & always carry treats as mine are food orientated, not all mals are.. :)

But, I have also heard alot of unpleasant stories from people who have let Mals off lead, & a rabbit/bird etc has crossed the path with fatal consequences to the dog.. one of which had been OTL for 10 years, its an awful story :(  They can be trained & trained well in the right hands but at the end of the day, they are the same as Huskies, high prey drive & they will often run if given the chance........... !!

I think the same can be said though for 90% of dogs, no matter the training things can suddenly appear a dog react and we simply aren't quick enough with our responses.

Having any dog off lead is a calculated risk.  This is why choosing the lest risky places is best.

And you can never predict for the unexpected.
You can have a dog with fantastic recall for years but one day something may happen that spooks the dog. As sai, it is a calculated risk (as is crossing the road or riding on a motorbike :-) ) with the pros and cons weighed up obviously there is a higher risk with dogs that are not good at recall or have high prey drive.

I agree totally with the calculated risk - any dog can suddenly be naughty.

My friend lost her fabulous collie about 4 years ago - wonderful dog - working B in obedience - suddenly wandered off and didn't come back - was killed on the motorway :( :(

Mine are never off the lead, their prey instinct is very very strong and they would be off like a greyhound out of a gate.  Even though they are extremely food orientated they are totally oblivious to any food that I carry when out walking - they are fed raw and the prospect of a free meal is far too exciting than a tripe stick!  Squirrels tend to stop them in their tracks simply because they run up a tree - doggy TV - at least for a short while. :D

>You can have a dog with fantastic recall for years but one day something may happen that spooks the dog.

Like those people who have all the confidence in the world walking their dog off lead next to a busy road  :( uggh makes me shudder every time!
Usually these dogs are pretty close to their owners anyway,so i have never seen the point of not having a leash on them

I met two today and they are never near the lampposts that have the signs up about fines for off lead.

The first was a very scrawny GSD right in Kingswod high street a very busy A road.  It was sprinting ahead of the owner and of course made a beeline for me and my four dogs until the owner yelled at it so it nearly ran in the road.  The other was a staffy type out for an evening stroll with it's middle aged owners walking up a cul de sac towards a busy road.  It was after dark and the dog was black brindle, no chance for a driver to spot it should it have strayed into the road.

>Is the same true for malamutes regarding keeping them on the lead?

Mostly, yes. We will only let ours offlead if we are in an enclosed area. They get to run with a rig though ;)

Bint,
Did your mothers friend end up getting a husky and more importantly has she let it off the leads?

I would never let mine off lead , unless in a secure area .. i can trust mine not to go over the council erected fence in the dog area as we kind of have a routine in there ..lol.. we run they beat me i run back they beat me so i run back up the area and so forth till i gasp    lol  ( only if there are  other dogs going by the area then i lead them as they love to meet and greet ) But i am always on guard in the area as i know they could clear the fence no problem and i would never do this alone either ...(  but they seem to see this area as playtime not bolt time, but might be cos they run on a rig too)

Bint,
Did your mothers friend end up getting a husky and more importantly has she let it off the leads?

Yes she did pinkbrady and as far as I'm aware it is being let off lead. It's still young though, let's see what happens as it matures.

About 12 years ago we sold a Sibe puppy to a lady who was a superb dog trainer. She was heavily into obedience and agility. She trained her sibe puppy from day one and by the time she was two, she was always off-lead and was competing regularly in obedience and agility at a high level. Her level of recall and obedience was the best I have ever seen in a Siberian. One day at the age of 4, completely out of character, she got out of her garden, refused to come back, ran across the road and was killed instantly.
If I had a fiver for every time I have heard a variation on this theme from heart-broken Sibe owners, I would be fairly well-off. It always amazes me that a small minority of newcomers to the breed (and I include here most of the backyard breeders advocating off-lead siberians) are so arrogant that they assume they know better than the breed clubs and people who have been in the breed for many, many years. We don't say these things for fun - we say them because we never want to see another Siberian Husky die under the wheels of a vehicle, or get shot by a farmer for worrying livestock.

front page of my local newspaper this week is the story of two huskies which were shot by the farmer for attacking his sheep. They had escaped from a nearby garden.  Very sad for all concerened and especially two dead dogs.

Wendy

Sibes ahve extreemtly strong prey drive and will go after livestock with real intent.

In Poland the breed seems very popular and they often end up shot for worrying wildlife.

> Sibes ahve extreemtly strong prey drive and will go after livestock with real intent

Too right Brainless, I don't think people realise quite how strong their prey drive is. At 4 months my girl caught and killed a rabbit when she was being walked on a long lead. The rabbit was dead before we realised what had happened and of course Sibes are incredibly quick. If she can do that on lead I would hate to think what would happen to her off lead. Their strong prey drive combined with their speed is definately a potentially fatal combination.

Since the rabbit incident she's had a toad and a bird, both out the garden though not on a walk - and she's still only 16 months! I dread to think what is still to come.

Talking of prey drive and speed , one of my girls did exactly that today on a walk . Down the country roads on her lead (just a double length one )Walking her usual hurried speed that she does,,,,She dives into a hedged field nearly pulling me through and comes out with a bird in her mouth (not sure what it was )Without a single warning too...(good job i am a sturdy built lass...lol)..Got the bird out of her mouth which appeared to be just badly startled as it flew off okay .. then carried on as if nothing had happened .... And this is the dog that does not bat an eyelid to the ringed doves that hang about our back gardens .... it just goes to show ... when they fancy something they will take it if they can ... And i never walk her on a collar either as i am so worried she might slip it , full harness here with collar just in case i need to get hold of her ...

My two caught a rabbit last year.  I had them on a two-dog couple with the lead at about 1 metre and was walking down a narrow pathway with high nettles either side and they just pounced into the undergrowth, I heard a squeak and out came big 'un with a bunny, luckily it was a clean kill, trouble was she wanted to get away into a corner to eat it and little 'un wanted to play tug, and I wanted to get it off them so we could get on with our walk - pretty difficult with two huskies tugging a dead bunny.  I dragged them into a field thinking that if they saw another live one running they might drop it (yes I was willing to have my arms pulled out their sockets and be dragged across a muddy field!).  Of course, there were no bunnies to be seen.  I then saw a guy with a greyhound (on a lead) heading my way, I shouted to warn him that my two had a rabbit but he came over anyway and said his dog didn't bother about rabbits.  He held on to little 'un who by then had a leg to herself, while I managed to get the rest of it from big 'un (do not ask how eugghhh!), who was happy with the leg she had.  Phew!  Wouldn't mind but big 'un will not eat a skinned rabbit from the butchers.

They other day they both pounced at the riverside and got a next of what I think were baby mice but they spate them out and off we went so perhaps they were rats.  Apparently female huskies are supposed to be good mousers?  Not sure where I heard that but my two seem to be.

"Apparently female huskies are supposed to be good mousers?"       Mine used to go nuts under the garden shed when we had a family of mice there , my neighbour caught most of them as they moved into his garden , but we did find a few dead ones ... I always thought my huskies were very cat like, in the way they stretch and have the ability to curl up in the smallest places ...lol....Mine too will not touch a skinned rabbit from the butchers either..

I think Misty doesn't like rabbit because I thin the small rib bones are too spikey, so perhaps the furry covering makes them more appealing - lol.  Foxy will eat absolutely anything - not always a good thing........... :D