hi everyone new here have been reading your posts all day and have learnt all sorts of invaluble info off you all well i have a q for you all i am thinking of breeding my 3 year bitch but dont know when the best time is she is due in season in the next month sometimes shes early sometimes late but she only has very short seasons and only bleeds for roughly 5/6 days is this normal and she is quite small (she was the runt of the litter) most of all if succesfull i am more worried about her welfare if something goes wrong mainly losing her as she is as presious to me as my 2 children and i have had her since she was 5 weeks old well anyway im babbling now but i just wanted to know if her seasons were normal and could she still be mated thank you in advance for your help wich im sure will be honest and invalluble x

Hi Ashleigh

I've copied Blue's post of 20th February in full here - this points out the HEALTH tests which are imperative if you are going to be a good breeder:-

[i]Edited whole post

edited to add : Importantly it is currently VITAL that should you decide to breed from your dog that it is health screened for the eye conditions PHPV and Hereditary Cataract and the neurological condition L2-HGA. For HC and L2 there are now specific genetic screening tests that can be done to determine whether or not your dog is a carrier for either condition.For PHPV and PPSC (another eye condition) there is a clinical eye examination that can tell if your dog is affected by either condition. People buying pups are now demanding that breeding stock are health screened.

http://www.staffords.co.uk/sbtbc/health_issues.htm

http://www.staffords.co.uk/
Have you done any of these tests?    Even if you only ever intended her to have just one litter, they are still vital.  As you know there are loads of sbts out there which have not been well-bred - and from your post it would seem as if you are really concerned about the welfare of your girl.

Read also the first post in the Breeding Section "Should I breed from my pet bitch".

She sounds very precious to you - and I would keep her as your pet.   You say she is quite small, and may not be the best type to breed from.

Personally, I would love her for herself!

Margot

welcome!

do you mind if i ask why your wanting to breed her? you didn't mention if you show her or anything. most people would only recommend you breed from her if she is a really quality specimin who has passed all her health checks (hips, eyes and a genetic one for staffs i think, please correct me guys!). don't get me wrong, our bitch that we bred from is not a showing girl and is not a BRILLIANT example but we were asked by the stud owner to use her, she fell in love with her as her temprement is totally bomb proof while being a decent breed example. the stud is a gorgeous champion animal and they complimented each other well plus we wanted a pup from her to so we went ahead (i make this point to show there are other reasons for mating than perfect conformation, so not judging just pointing out). we also had a waiting list for pups from the mating. thats something worth considering to, what happens if you can;t home the pups? there are A LOT of unwanted staffies out in the world since they are so popular with a rougher element who are carelessly breeding them at the moment, the numbers astonishing (i;ve been considering getting a staff so have been looking today)

thats not a normal season though, thats really really short. on the other hand every bitch is different, i'd see your vet to check it out. they'd be able to advise as to any reason she might have trouble. you;d also need to talk about health testing- not sure they'd be able to do them in time if she's due in a month (again more experienced folk please jump in!)- what about the intended sire? has he had his? might be pushing it for next month (of course you know if you rush she'd come in late lol)

can i also ask, is it a typo or did you really get her at 5 weeks?? thats very very young to be away from her mum, most breeders would say 6 weeks at absolute minimum

hope the advise was ok, sure far smarter folk will be along soon. there are also loads of staffy people on the site who are very forthcoming with advice- if you look at threads you'll see staffie avatars (the little pics), you'll see who to try and talk to for the best info specific to you :)

ah see margot you got in there before me! lol, i type to slowly...

no i dont show her and no it wasnt a typo i got her at 5 weeks and by this point only her and 1 they were keeping were left if u ask me he didnt have a clue wanted the money nothing else the mother was struggling and rather than hand feeding them helping her and putting in the time he just sold them not to mention the poor things were kept in a shed outside he sed they were weaned but she want i had to feed her and wean her myself i want to breed her so i can have one of her pups but not so sure now as i mentioned before she means as much to me as my 2 children (as in my opinion any dog should to its owner) and i woul be devestated if something happened to her because of me being selfish i am taking her to the vets tomorow anyway to c about her seasons and get her checked over and possibly book her in to get spayed

To be honest only the best examples of a really popular breed should be bred from.  She has not had the best of starts in life and it appears to have affected her growth, so I would think it far too risky to breed from such a bitch.

You don't mention at all if she is Kennel Club registered, and you would not be contributing to the good of the breed by breeding unregistered and untypical stock.

Enjoy her for the character she is.

If she has given you a deep interest in the breed I suggest you join the Breed Club and any regional club near you and start attending club events to learn more about the breed.

In this way you can get to know the best the breed has to offer and obtain a pup from a caring reputable breeder who has bred for health, type and temperament.

With the real rescue problems the breed has there is really no room for any more casually bred litters, even the top breeders are reducing their breeding to the bare minimum to keep their lines going.

i also forgot to ask do you know how much these tests cost does any 1 know

Hip scoring and eye testing alone are likely to set you back over £200,  I imagine the 3 DNA tests are likely to be about £50 each, hopefully a staff breeder can give a better idea.

thanks for your advice i am going to ask the vet for her opinion tomorow but i have a feeling she will say the same and tbh i think its best i get her spayed and like you sed love her for the caracter she is there is no point putting her through that trauma unnecisarilly and as you have al said finding a suitble home for the puppies is hard and on my consience if they are placed in the wrong homes wich no doubt so many are and these dogs are so intelligent, energetic and mischievious at times although they are fantastic companions and excellent with children if they are not trained well they can be a pain and some people think awww arnt they cute or buy them as an accesory and arnt prepared for how boysterous and destructive these pups are (i found that out after tia ate my entire skirting board ) tht they get "rid" of them after a few months

The L2 test was £65 and the HC test was £65 plus there was the vet cost for taking the blood that was £28 consultation fee and £12 for the blood test, then you will need to find a vet who does the eye test to test for phpv & ppsc i paid £35 for that.

To be honest you would probly be better looking for a well bred pup, and keep your girl as a much loved pet.

your being very sensible about it- i wish all staff owners would research it before jumping in feet first, then there wouldn;t be the awful numbers in rescue and the poorly bred/raised examples responsible for attacks recently. staffs are lovely dogs, brilliant brilliant pets when done properly but so often now they are not.

i know the draw to breed from your pet girl can be huge, but theres no guarentee that the pup you got from her would be like her mum, its a big gamble for such a huge responsibility. and as brainless said the start she had in life might have influenced her potential to have healthy pups etc.

thats so awful about the person who- i'm loath to say- bred her. no way to treat an animal.

from all the info you've given us i'd say maybe shop around for a line and breeder you like- go to shows etc, its a great day out! the kids would enjoy it to i;m sure (and often much cheaper to get into than even the cinema etc now lol) meet some breeders, get their experience and maybe buy a pup from a good line. then consider breeding later on. you'll feel better about it knowing your not risking as much with a really health animal, having people waiting for a pup so not worrying about that etc and you'll enjoy it all the more for it.

stick to the forum to! you can get some really helpful advise and theres always someone who can answer a query- they are all very smart on here, with lovely lovely doggies :)

you going to get a pic of your girly up?

> arnt prepared for how boysterous and destructive these pups are (i found that out after tia ate my entire skirting board )

lol, monster! my our boy Tio ate my parents wall (bit bigger than your staff though...)

>To be honest you would probly be better looking for a well bred pup, and keep your girl as a much loved pet.

I couldnt agree more.It would be much easier to buy in a well bred pup then rear a litter yourself,which if done properly is a monumental task and one that i personally wouldnt undertake,and i'm home all day and my kids are practically grown.
As has already been mentioned,think of your little girl,besides the health risks to her,could you stand watching her go through the pain of Labour,it really is a heartbreaking site,watching the dog you love go through that and not really being able to help.

And to be brutally honest i dont think anyone should be breeding staffs until we get the Thousands already born and homeless under control.

> if done properly is a monumental task

very very true. my sis and i moved back in for a few weeks with mum and dad to help and it was still exhausting...won;t be doing that again in a hurry! very rewarding but definately easier researching a breeder lol

Ashleig I cannot tell you how refreshing your posts are.  If only more people would take good honest advice about their dogs, especially when it comes to breeding.  So much easier to have her spayed and enjoy her company for many more years to come.  Then you can have all the excitement of researching a well bred puppy in the future :-)

Well done you!

Debs

Ditto what Debs said.  Often people have the idea that their girls would enjoy motherhood or should have a litter for their good (the oppostite is usally true pregnancy adn motherhood are very risky and take a lot out of a bitch).  In fact what she doesn't have she won't miss, and a lot of bitches do not enjoy mother hod at all, especially if they are big babies themselves, as they feel a lot of conflict between their instincts and their role as a family pet..

Ashleigh, you do not know just how refreshing it is to see your responses!   You have taken on board what we have said, and as you say, your girl is far too precious to you to risk breeding from!

Well done - do keep coming on here, let us know what your vet says, and when you have her spayed.

Margot

When you add up all the cost of the health tests, then add on the stud fee , then you require about £200 between equipment, food, wormer etc etc  then the huge part , Vet fees when assistance is needed. 

You could buy a very well bred puppy from an excellent breeder.  Do a lot of homework this time.

Here is some additional information about the testing.
http://www.aht.org.uk/genetics_l2hga.html

hi all seen our vet this morning and expresed my concerns and she agreed as tia is small for a staff bitch she wuld probabbly require asssistance to deliver if she were bred with a larger male as the chances are they could be quite chunky so i have decided to get her spayed and enjoy her she said to let her have this season and the 2 1/2 months after take her back they will check her lungs and kidneys again and then get her spayed also when i mentioned i was also worried about her abbility to rer pups herself due to her being taken away so early she aid she would probably struggle because she didnt have time to learn enough from her own mother so i know i am doin the right thing for my precious girl i will stick around as i love reading all your posts and i will be looking in to getting another well bred staff puppy  like you all suggested thank you all so much for all your advice you really helped me xx

sounds like the right decision, your doing the right thing.

Ashleigh,

I would just like to echo what some of the others have said - you really are a breath of fresh air. Many people come on here and ask about breeding their pet dog, and become very angry and quite rude when the pitfalls are pointed out to them. It is lovely to see someone putting the health of their much loved pet first.

Take time to find a well bred pup from a good breeder, who may be willing to mentor you in the breed and show you the ropes. I'm sure with your friendly attitude and willingness to listen you'll be a credit to your breed as a breeder yourself one day.

Claire
:-)

At last, someone who has listened to what our members have advised, glad to see you have taken on board all the advice given.  Enjoy your girl she will give you years of pleasure and I hope you can get a nice staffy pup in the future, I am sure one of our members could help you achieve this as well.

thnk you so much i think nyone who owns a dog especially one as loving caring and genuinly fantastic with children as mine is should love them as much as i love tia and when i comes down to it thats all they want a loving safe home and i dont get why people would ask you all for advice and then get deffensive at the end of the day you are trying to better people knowledge and help them understand it isnt as easy a it looks and there is a very real chance of losing your dog and i just dont think its worth the risk myself xx

Your quite rigth you only need to read this thread to see how heartbreakign it can be: http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/103233.html

Well done to you for making a good decision and also for giving Tia a good home when she could have ended up anywhere as she obviously wasn't from a good breeder who would have reared her much better than she was reared. Enjoy.

Just wanted to join in with everyone else -thank you for being such an excellent dog owner, listening to advice and putting your dog first! :)

So pleased that you have dealt with this in a correct manner and realised that no-one is getting at you like others have in the past!

Can I just ask another question also?  Was this dog even KC registered?  Just doubt it would be being sold at 5 weeks as this is against their rulings.

no both parents were (was shown their papers)i just never got any paperwork bu t i really wasnt fussed i fell in love with her as soon as i saw her she was the one sat in the corner and was so tiny and when he said they lived in a shed outside well i wouldnt put her in a shed never mind make her go through labour and then make pups live in one he really didnt have a clue al he was interested in was the cash like i said she had 8 pups and there was only her left when i went to look at her so i dread to think how young the others were when he sold them anyway she has a loving home now and at this time is trying to squeeze onto my knee coz the baby keeps prodding her lol she adores him though and my daughter walks her round th room all day till she sits down and refuses to move its a funny sight i can tell you

im back again just to say had tia weighed and she is 13kg bit on th small side and the vet sed she is in perfect health has great muscle tone and is all round great

That's great!   I'm not sure about SBT weight, but its good that shehas great muscle tone - shows her exercise is spot on!

Margot

With the amount of poorly bred SBT'S out there you would only be contributing to the problem and not solution by breeding top quality pups for temperament and type.

Breeding a SBT in todays world shouldnt be taken so lightly when there are so many in rescue and many are abused or not looked after properley becasue they are so 'popular' at the mo, people have one then loose intrest fast or realise how strong they are and the pup ends up in rescue.
But being a SBT owner myself I think ony long standing accredited breeders should be allowed to breed SBT's nowadays. :(

So like everyone else says I hope you will stick to your word and dont breed your bitch, be a good example for the other people who will read this :) Nice one for being tuned in :)

hi there i fully intend sticking to my word she means to much and as you said so many need homes already i would be adding to the problem she obviously isnt a excellent example to breed from because of her size issue and the vet strongly advised against breeding from her with her being so dainty as he put it lol (he wouldnt say that if he saw the way she runs round my house like a bull in a china shop lol) and so i am definatly getting her spayed after this season dont mean to sound like im getting defensive im not i no your not having a go just helping me understand what a huge problem there is with badly bred unwanted staffys i am now going down the route of buying another very well bred pup from a good breeder that does all the health checks xx