I posted last week about vaccination reaction and the effect that it appears to have on some breeds, to my knowledge Cavaliers.

Two weeks ago my seven year beautiful little boy have his booster and since then has not been 'just right', not really ill, he is eating,pooing and playing o.k.it is just his eyes which looked odd.

Anyway yesterday we decided that it was time the vet looked him over. Clear bill of health apart from a possible eye problem which Toddy refused to let the vet look at. He is booked in for sedation and further examination on Monday.

However this morning I noticed that he has a definite corneal ulcer forming so I decided to look at a few books. My Home Owners Guide to Vet Medicine and Problems tells me that sometimes these ulcers can be the result of Hepetias infection, either the actual disease or vaccination for it. Has anyone else expericed this or are there any vets amongst you out there who may know of this problem. Thankfully he is seeing our own wonderful vet tomorrow so at least we can start treatment and hopefully (please God) heal his beautiful eyes again.

Hi Alice,here are a couple of sites for you to look at. Don`t have any experience of corneal ulcers tho but see if the sites help. In a rush at the mo get back to you later.

http://www.ckcs.com/health/health_eye.html
http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/ocular%20disorders/corneal%20dystrophy.html
http://www.veterinaryvision.com/dvm_forum/dvm-ulcer.htm
http://www.beaconforhealth.org/Eyes.doc
http://www.mesavet.com/library/corneal_dystrophy.htm
http://www.eyevet.info/corneal_dystrophy.html

Christine2

Hi Alice - I'm sorry about the the problem Toddy is having with his eyes.

A few years ago my dog died after contracting hepatitis from his booster vaccination. Apart from extreme lethargy the first sign I noticed was that the whites of his eyes had turned yellow. Unfortunately the disease spread very quickly and despite frantic efforts he went into kidney failure and never recovered.

If there is a connection with Toddy's booster and his eye problem it doesn't sound as serious (thankfully) as the problems we had. All I would say is keep a close watch just in case he develops any other symptoms.
Best of luck - let us know how you get on at the vets.

Joyce

Hi sorry not clear how do the dogs get hepitatis is it from dirty needles or what? As I said no expert just a bit worried cos my little un may need a booster soon and not sure whether I will bother but may need to kennel him. Details on separate thread. So now not at all sure whether to have try out kennels now
Thanks Gina

Hi I am new to this board so hopefully I will bet this right. I have a concern with regards to boosters, can you give me your thoughts on the subject. I fear getting them done due to family experience but I have to kennel them so I have no choice, is it that big a deal to have them done every year, I mean you don't put you kids through as much torment do we so why should my dogs be subjected to it. Any advise would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Denise

No Gina, it's not from dirty needles. The problem is that some of the vaccines given are 'live' so if the dog's immune system isn't all it should be it cannot mount a response by developing the necessary antibodies. So in effect it can catch the very disease the jab is supposed to prevent.
There is a lot of info on the net, one that explains it all quite well is

http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/health/common/vaccinations.html

Denise - there has been a lot of debate on vaccinations on this Forum. If you do a search and have a look through the various posts you should be able to pick up a lot of information.

Joyce

Hi Joyce,
Thankyou very much for your reply and that site was very useful. I have contacted my vet and they said that if your dogs have not had injections for some time then they must be injected with a 2 week interval to allow the immunisation to work also twice the cost would you believe.
Thankyou anyway and hope we can chat again sometime
Denise

Yes, Denise, this is a fairly typical response from vets who recommend yearly boosters.

There are blood tests (titres I think they're known as) which you can have done to see if your dog still has protection. Having said that, my older dog has never been blood tested or received any jabs after the initial puppy vaccinations. I use homeopathic nosodes - touch wood, he has been fine for the last six years.

Regards,
Joyce

Joyce,
Can you tell me a bit about homeopathic nosodes, how often do you give them prices etc. Thanks
Anne

Hi Anne

I get mine from Ainsworths (tel 0171 935 5330). The dosage instructions are included on a leaflet which comes with the bottle.

Hi Joyce,
I have never heard of that (titres) and it is highly unlikely the vet would mention it to me either lol.I just wish that using homeopathic remedies would satisfy kennels but sadly they still request all vaccinations including the dreaded kennel cough one, I think that is so cruel to put them through that. I am dreading next year when we go on holiday having to put my two younger ones through that. I also have two older ones which I have decided to leave with my elder son, don't think they could cope with the jabs.
Anyway will go just now
Take care
Denise

Yes, Denise, most kennels do insist on yearly vaccinations unfortunately. I can understand that they have to be careful about the spread of disease but perhaps this could be overcome by accepting some kind of certificate from the vet giving the dog a clean bill of health prior to kennelling.

I do feel that over-vaccinating dogs can cause a whole range of immune-related problems. I also believe that it can trigger behavioural problems in some dogs.

Hi Joyce I also believe the same as you.
Christine2

I had a feeling, from previous discussions here, that you and I were were on the same side of the fence on this subject, Christine ! :)

Just thought I`d mention it in case anyone wasn`t sure :) :) :)
PS. just heard this morning about a new test been developed & used in USA to detimine antibodies for Parvo & Distemper & levels in the dam to work out v.v. accurately when to vaccs pups & also cheaper than here. Will pass it on when I hear more.
Christine2

If had been online sooner I would have known about boosters .
I do now
Iam not going into the post mortem on Alice at the moment . cant face it . but as i go on and hear more I am sure that boosters had a major part to play in her early death.
Mari

Mari - I understand you not wanting to go into detail. Have you posted previously about losing Alice ? It's just that I can't recall seeing anything. When (or if) you feel up to it I would be interested to hear what happened, in view of the link to the booster.

Regards

Joyce

I would agree with you guys also Joyce and Christine, Nanouki is now atopic following his booster last feb.
Never had a problem before the booster, it seems to have brought it on

:(

Christine would you mind sending me the info to report an adverse reaction

Thanks
Theresa

Hi Theresa,so sorry to hear about Nanouki. If you go to the site below & look on the left hand side you will see adverse reaction, scroll under it & click on forms & you will be able to download an animal adv/reac form. To fill it in you need Nanoukis vac.card that your vet sticks the info on the vac`s hes had & all the info you need should be there. If you need any help just shout. Can I ask why isn`t your vet doing it? They are *actively encouraged to do them* supposedly!

http://www.vmd.gov.uk/

Christine2

The vet isn't doing it as he is dubious as to whether or not there is a link?

In my mind there is, he had the booster in early Feb and a couple of weeks later became ill. Am going to fill it out tonight

Thanks :)

Theresa

Hi Theresa, vets eh?? The thing is with the sarrs is it only needs to be suspected, thats all. Good luck
Christine2

Sorry thicko that I am but I can't find the form to complete...... Help please

Hi Alice, I`ve tried to copy & paste it but its an adobe & that didn`t work so I`m going to try sending it to you .
Christine2

Me again Alice, I`ve sent it to the addy in your profile & I think its as an adobe attachment its got the little adobe sign on it. Couldn`t work out any other way to do it OK
Christine2

Hi Theresa
Just wondered if the booster was a trigger for your dogs atopy as I have been reading up on this and understand it's hereditary and has to be in their genes. Hope your dog is not too uncomfortable.
tangle

Me too Tangle and he is a GSD according to my vet they can be prone to skin problems?

Just wanted to say that you are describing a lot of what Nanouki suffered with before we got it under control. He was on Baytril which is like Marbocyl, both of them are very strong, has your vet mentioned this to you?

My understanding of insurance with Petplan, (I called them to verify) is that they will not cover an insured dog for parvo etc if they are not vaccinated.

Tangle with nanouki, the biggest change in him came about through homeopathy and a natural diet?

Not sure if you have gone down that road yet.
Nanouki is also young, will be 2 in January :)

Good luck

Theresa

Edited to add that nanouki is allergic to grasses, synulox, hazelnut trees, and housemites.

Theresa, Bingo is a Lab 18 months old today. Our Lab that we had to have PTS last year was nearly 12 and we used a vet that did homeopathy as well, whichever he thought suited the animal best. He has now gone over to alternative treatment full time (people too) and has moved but not too far. I did ring and explained about Bingo and was told by the nurse that the problem is with a case like him he will keep developing new allergies, I did make an app. but cancelled it as he was in the middle of taking the Marbocyl. I did know it was strong, thanks, but he is sensitive to just about all the others. The places just got larger on those. I don't know about you but I knew he was different right from the start. Vet said I had forgotten what it was like to have a puppy! Lab puppies are a bit OTT but he really hard work. Can your boy play normally, Bingo's blood overheats and he gets very hot. Between 10 and 20mins is about it. We haven't tried(dare I write it)Barf if thats what you mean. He improves for a week or two when we change food but then gets used to it and we are back to sqare one. Did you look at the Pet Education website. thanks for your answer.Which test did Nanouki have to determine the tree and housemite allergies?
tangle

Hi Tangle,

Sorry this is a bit long so will do it in chunks.

Play: Nanouki is three legged, he lost his leg when he was eight weeks old, so his play is not as hyper as the others and not as long as a normal dog. BUT when he was at the height of his illness he could not play at all and after less than a five min walk would lie on the floor like a beached whale and pant and pant and pant. He sounds like Bingo in this regard too. He literally could tolerate no exertion at all. Another thing, he could not stand heat, if it was a warm day he would find the shadiest spot in the house and rest there.

Food: Nanouki was on Chappie complete, and on the advice of my homeopath I changed him to BARF. Now to rule out the possibility of food allergy he had only turkey and veggies for several weeks, and he now has beef and chicken as well, with no side effects. I do not feed him any grains, and of course with BARF there are no additives that could be hindering him.

Medication and Tests: Please be careful about the Marbocyl, nanouki suffered increased liver enzymes and anaemia, due to prolonged doses of antibiotics. He does not currently take any meds, his problem is controlled through diet, homeopathy and vaccines. The tests that were done for his allergies were called Idex allergy tests, they are blood tests which are sent off to a lab. If any allergy comes back then they make up a custom vaccines using small amounts of the allergens to make the dog less sensitive to the allergens. We are starting the vaccines tomorrow. They are effective in 60% of dogs with allergies.

Now to the good news. Nanouki has had his allergies since February. At one point he was so bad, that he was bald along his entire underbelly, his front leg, back legs and groin. He could not play at all, and used to scream if any sore part of him was touched. Antibiotics controlled the problem but didn't cure it. The change of diet to BARF and use of homeopathy brought about a fantastic change to the point where Nanouki now suffers occasional outbreaks, but nothing compared to what he was like. He has been off antibiotics since July and his recent blood work showed all his blood levels are back to normal.

I am not suggesting that everyone with a dog who has these problems treat their dog the way I have Nanouki, I am just relating what has worked for us. If someone had said to me four months ago that Nanouki would be as happy as he is now due to the path we have taken with him, I would have been very sceptical. It has been worth the time and effort of BARF, the 300 mile round trips to the homeopath, and the constant monitoring to have Nanouki back to his usual self, a happy and well adjusted dog.

I hope this has helped you Tangle

Theresa :)

Hi Theresa i`m really pleased that everything is working out for Nanouki & you!! :) :) :)
Christine2
PS why did he have his leg amputated?

Thanks for your good wishes and all of the advice you have given me Christine :)

Nanouki belonged to the gypsies who bought him as a 7 week old pup, then drove over him, and damaged his leg so badly that he needed it amputated (broken in 3 places and totally degloved)

They brought him to the vet, paid for the surgery, and brought him back the next day to be pts as he was "useless" The vet contacted a rescue group who took him, and then he came to us!

:)
Theresa

Oh Theresa what an awful sad story. Makes it doubly more worthwhile to have got him on the road to recovery after such a lousy start to life.
Christine2

Hi Theresa. I am sorry your dog has had so many problems and that he had such a terrible start in life. We all know the kind of life he would have continued to have but thank goodness that is all behind him now. I have wondered about a diet more like the dogs used to have years ago. Our dog ate virtually the same as we did from what I remember and nobody's dog ever seemed to go anywhere near a vets. I wouldn't dare give Bingo any bone at all as he does have episodes when he coughs more. The vet has checked his heart many times. He never wears a collar at home as his throat seems tender as does his feet, We have a gravelled area but he won't ever play on it and it is still a major job to dry muddy feet. Our other dogs all got into the habit of lifting paws and I know some dogs dislike having their feet touched, Bingo hates it and really blows, then puts his bum down and charges around a bit hyper. Absolutely ignores what you say for a couple of minutes and although I trust him completely feel if he was at all nasty he would bite, it seems to distress him that much.
Actually he is no worse than any other Lab we have had in the hot weather,apart from excercising, can't do it for long, hot or cold, and he absolutely loves laying in front of the Parkray. I know a person that had the desensitizing injections, I hope it works for Nanouki. Bingo hasn't had Marbocyl since July, he has only two places on him at the moment and I put the Aloe on those, also his hair is not too bad. Keep us up to date on how things go. This is terribly long!
tangle

Hi Alice, here is another link from Dr Dodds who is reknowed for her knowledge on vaccines & immune disease.Scroll down to vaccines.
http://www.golden-retriever.com/dodds.html
Could I please ask you to report whats happened to your dog to the Veterinary Medical Directorate as a Susected Adverse Reaction. You can ask you vet to do it or you can do it yourself.
http://www.vmd.gov.uk/
Go to the adverse reaction page & it will tell you all about SARSS & how to download a form for you to do it yourself.
Hope your dogs OK, let us know what the vet says.
Christine2

How many people here are confident 12 month boosters are risk free and how many prefer a longer gap?

I don't believe any gap is risk free I think there will always be individuals who will unfortunately be damaged by vaccination but the vast majority are not going to be damaged and only stand to benefit and I believe that will be the case at whatever gap is set.