I've just got back from a long Sunday walk with the dogs and seen as its such a nice day we stopped off at a pub on the way back. As we were walking through the beer garden we past a lady with 2 border terriers and another small dog (not sure of breed). As both myself and OH walked past her dogs started displaying aggressive behaviour towards our dogs (snarling, barking, growling, baring teeth etc). We kept our dogs on short leads and walked past in single file. My OH went first and as I walked past she said in a very angry voice "can you not keep your dogs away from mine!" to which my reply was "No! You should be able to keep your dogs under control!" My dogs were not paying any attention to hers and without finiding a different route round the beer garden they were as far away as possible! I got the impression she thought because my dogs were bigger they were obviously to blame - stupid woman. Anyway she did not like my comment and I could hear her muttering comments as I walked off. She didn't stick around though as her dogs reacted in exactly the same way as another couple walked past with their dog - point proved I think.

i dont think that has anything to do with not being able to keep your dogs under control my terriers are excatly the same as hers

That may be the case but there was no need for her nasty tone and aggressive manner. That is what annoyed me the most as her look and tone implied my dogs didn't have a right to be in the same place as hers as her dogs will react to them.

I think if I were in that lady's position I would be very apologetic about my dog's behaviour...not implying that you shouldn't let your perfectly well behaved dogs near hers! ah well, some people!

i detest people like that.

just because their dogs are small and displaying aggressive tendances doesnt mean they should be allowed the right to verbally attack others who have well behaved dogs!

what if they had done that to a child, especially as it was in such a public place? the DDA comes to mind.

i wouldnt have been so nice about it. stupid people.

I agree it is no excuse, yes, terriers are naturally more yappy and barky then many other breeds, my Grandfather has 3 Parsons Jack Russels, and my mum amongst her brood a terrier cross and I would say out of all the families dogs these 4 are most likely to have a good yap. :-D

But......... they are all taught the command shush or quiet, and they all obey that command, sitting in a public beer garden, with other dogs likely to pass and being allowed to bark I would find most annoying as a patron let alone a person with dogs getting lip from others.

The woman had absolutely no right to have a go at you, and it served her right to get a shrift reply.

Any breed of dog can obey a command of quiet! If the owner can be bothered to teach it.

>I think if I were in that lady's position I would be very apologetic about my dog's behaviour...

Me too!

Sadly things like this happen all too often...so i sympathise.
I usually walk my two staffords together... Sometimes we meet a yorkie owner (no offence to anyone) Who has NO control over her dog who cames running over snapping and snarling usually at saffie... who luckily enough is very placid..
Ive asked the owner many times to keep her dog under control.. she usually just huffs at me saying 'us pitbull owners are all the same' (saffie is def all staffie and not pbt)
I think its unfair .. if my dog was to snap back she would probably kill the yorkie...

So i do sympathise... BUT its usally the owner that gets on your wick...

Donna x
(and my boysxx)

Me being the owner (owned is more apt ) of two medium sized dogs that people cross the street to avoid and a little lovie dog that everyone wants to stroke  ,,, could come into this catagory you know ... my little cav is a yap and although she does not yap at dogs who are near her and greeting her, if she can see a dog who is ignoring her or just not interested in her she yaps to high heaven.. i get very embarrassed but would never be snotty about it . I have come to the conclusion that she is just an attention seeker and must be seen or heard and do try and explain this when she starts .

I give anyone with dogs a wide berth, if you look upon it from her point of view maybe she had aggressive dogs and was looking after your best interests.. i personally wouldnt be so close to someone with dogs as you can never tell and rather go on indication from that person that mine can inititate play..

what i hate is when people get snotty cus your dog has had a go at theirs when theirs started it

To be honest the lady had no call to get snotty, but if the dogs were under control but being growly it is no big deal, many dogs will behave this way when on a short lead.

I usually have a problem with my youngest when we spot other dogs as she squirms and twists ans turns trying to get to them and wines with excitement. 

This usually results in her Mum telling her off which could easily be interpreted as being aggro to the other dogs we are passing, but as I have them on short lead then there is no issue. 

One or other of us will choose to give the other room to pass, a smile and a quick comment on how dizzy young un is about other canines and all is well, as she grows up she will ignore other dogs as the others have learnt to do.

I have also had a couple of stud males to stay and when otu with the girls they ahve been on their toes and macho sworn at passing dogs, they have been told off and again as safely on lead no harm done.

> Ive asked the owner many times to keep her dog under control.. she usually just huffs at me saying 'us pitbull owners are all the same' (saffie is def all staffie and not pbt)
>

ohh...if i had been you she'd have gone away with such a flea in her ear... sorry that really annoys me.

She did :wink

Donna x
(and my boysxx)

i dont think that has anything to do with not being able to keep your dogs under control my terriers are excatly the same as hers

Hayley that does not make it right!!

No dog should be allowed to snarl and bear teeth at any person or dog while out in public, why sit in clearly a oublic place where their may be children and let them make everyone else feel uncomftable?

Its not something people with perfectly well trained dogs need or want and to add the extra insults from that lady would have had my blood boiling!!!!

In Response to Rach85

Its not something people with perfectly well trained dogs need or want

now whos being snotty

i was at a show last yr and we were in the border class and a woman walked past me with her border and her dog started growling at mine so mine had a crack back and you should have seen the look the woman gave me, at the end of the day the dogs mentioned in this topic are terriers and are bred to work not just sit or stand and look pretty

Oh dear!

Its not about being snotty, its about having control over your dogs in public and accepting that barking, let alone snarling and baring teeth at every dog or person is from your point of view normal, because it isnt.
Anyone who condones this behaviour needs a good course in dog training.

So because they are terriers they are allowed to bark, lunge, snarl or bare teeth are they?

Where are you living!!!

so i take it that you have never been to crufts then? all you hear at crufts is thousands of dogs barking

Thats completely different from them lunging, snarling and baring teeth at each other isnt it??

Barking is normal, aggressive behaviour is not acceptable, fact.

no one said that because they are terriers they are allowed to do that but that is what most terriers are like if you want to be the one to change the group as a whole go for it :)

Dont try and be smart mate when you have no point to make.

I own a terrier, a SBT, so dont tell me that its acceptable for terriers to lunge, snarl and be aggressive to other dogs as its complete rubbish.
what you are saying is refelcting that the terrier are an aggressive breed which they are not, just becasue your dog may be untrained and aggressive does notmake the whole terrier population the same, does it?

Most terriers are NOT like that. They only are like that if their owners allow them to be.

Hear Hear Fillis, exactly my point. :)

> at the end of the day the dogs mentioned in this topic are terriers and are bred to work not just sit or stand and look pretty

The breed I own are also bred to work but it doesn't make them aggresive towards other dogs.

>all you hear at crufts is thousands of dogs barking

But they're not having a go at each other! In most environments if one dog is alerted by something and starts to bark then others will join in - but they're not attacking each other. Most terrier breeds are meant to be 'sharp' to deal with the vermin which are their prey, but in the old days if they started on each other they'd soon get knocked on the head.

Well said JG. :)

Terriers like a good bark, but aggression is in no way a trait of the breed!

To be honest I am fed up of so many terrier owners making the excuse "well, they are terriers". OK at a show, mine take exception to other dogs poking their noses in their crates (and I dont blame them - it is THEIR safe space), but the number of times they are snapped, snarled and lunged at for just walking past is unbelievable, and owners/handlers say nothing.

I agree it is a sad excuse and everyone suffers if you are of that view.
Mitz protects her ball from other dogs, fair enough its her ball, but any snappyness and she is told where to go!

Some people dont take any responsibility for their actions or that of their dogs, and that is so sad. :( Not to mention dangerous.

Pinkbrady the woman you encountered sounds like a real idiot making such comments to you about your dogs.

My Malamute is not great with other dogs, so if we see one coming we usually have to trek into the field a bit and off the path to avoid any confrontation on her part! (She used to love other dogs until she was attacked by an off lead, out of control dog). What I can't stand is owners who let their dogs run up to her, despite them seeing that I am trying to purposefully avoid them! I usually put my dogs on the lead if I see any other dog approaching. What I always think is I know how mine will react, but you never know how someone else's dog will be - better safe than sorry :-)

Nicely said! :)
Thats what being a responisble dog owner is all about, taking control to avoid a situation, ''prevention is better then cure'' is a saying I live by.
We now put Mitz on the lead till we are close and ask if their dogs like other dogs, it saves so much hassle doesnt it?
As you say, you know your dog is good, its other peoples dogs you have to worry about!

We never let Mitz go up to a leashed dog, wish people would return the favour sometimes.

> The breed I own are also bred to work but it doesn't make them aggresive towards other dogs

ditto. i wouldn't say "ah its just cause their bullmastiffs" if they suddenly started jumping on people and pinning them down. terriers are noisy no doubt, but not in an aggressive way as a rule.

Got to say we meet quite a few terrors, lol, I mean terrier types, :-D when we go to hydro, and some are often pulling on the lead to get over to my 2, yapping and growling and making lots of noise.  Owner trying to keep hold but they don't say anything, and we don't give them any excuse apart from walk past.   GSD's walk past on lead as if to say, naaah, just a yappy thing, aint worth looking at.  I tend to look on with amusement.

At the end of the day, if your dog walks past another dog making a show and throwing teddies out of the cot and your dog does not retaliate and remains well behaved, you have the upper hand and the other owner knows it.  Instead of taking responsibility they blame someone eles, and we wonder why their dog is kicking off, with an owner like that ...Mmmmmmm...

my partners last staffy (hes owned staffys since the early 80's) hated other dogs when they went near her owner so how do you not know that the dogs in the start of this topic werent just jealous of other dogs being near their owner? my younger bitch gets extremely jealous when other dogs come near me, and lots of terriers get assy with adult dogs they dont know, i own 5 terriers and four of them are funny with at least 2 of them mainly because 2 were bought in as adults

Whatever the **reason** is, that is no excuse for an owner to get angry with another for simply walking their dogs past, because their dogs decide to kick off. 

Have to add here just to add a point to the thread ... was walking my two huskies this teatime and cos i was in a rush tonight (had a lot to do in so little time)i walked them in my interview clothes (blouse ,skirt , boots and nice coat as oppossed to my usual trackie pants and trainers ... lol poshish looking  bird walking her dogs... not putting  them in her handbag )sorry had to ..... well i put the halti on one of the girls , as she if she wanted to go would go and you need the trainers for grip .... i expect the usual from most ppl ( its a muzzle )so don't halti her that often cos she hates it too . well anyway was walking past some houses and two dogs ran out of the gate and started barking and just going crackers at me and the dogs .... me i just carried on , but my girls being the girls they are started jumping and getting excited ... i got them together and told them off ( just cos i had my boots on   i must add )one dog was getting rather intrusive to mine and the wellbehaved girl gave a bit of a bark , well the two dogs carried on and on and followed us barking ( not nasty but as if to say beggar off this is my patch)next thing i know is a little yelp and the bigger of the two dogs went home ...owners were out straight away trying to call their dogs back but they would not listen and they were appologizing all the time  ... guess what ... i found my self saying , sorry but i think she might have nipped your dog ......i was waiting for the abuse to come but it never.. the lady appologized again for her dogs and said,,,, so what, basically if she goes out and does that she deserves a nip....  one was a shitzu (sp) and the other looked like a tiny pointer or a spaniel type .. my well behaved girl would put scoobydoo to shame in size ...  lol 

i dont think that has anything to do with not being able to keep your dogs under control my terriers are excatly the same as hers

When I first knew Border Terriers (about 30 years ago) they were always sensible around other dogs. In fact I was taught that a true working terrier saves its aggression for the quarry underground and should never be argumentative with other animals. So what's happened to the breed? I have two Patterdales - both of whom came to me as adults from a working kennel. They certainly aren't backward in coming forward if another dog shows aggression to them, but they won't ever start a fight, or even bark and growl at other dogs - because they have been taught that it's not acceptable behaviour. When so many people are anti-dog nowadays there is no excuse for having noisy, aggressive, badly behaved dogs in public. Any breed can be taught basic good manners if the owner is prepared to put in just a little bit of work.

Oh, and I've been at Crufts on Terrier Day for the last twenty years or so - and I always think how quiet it is even with all those terriers around. Most show dogs, even terriers, don't spend their day screaming their heads off, they just curl up in their boxes and go to sleep.

I have 3 terriers and 2 gundogs, 2 of the terriers are mother and daughter. I have never had a problem with my older 2 terriers barking or snarling or lunging when on a lead at other dogs but my youngest (the daughter) is a nightmare. When on a lead and coming up to people or other dogs she is horrible, she lunges, barks and sounds really aggressive but once she's up close and sniffs the other dog she calms right down and is fine. She will also attempt to chase cars and cyclists and basically on a walk is in a very hyper alert state.

If i were coming up to her and i didnt know her i would think she were an aggressive dog BUT i know she isnt and its just a front. I've tried walking her on her own but it makes no difference and have tried treats to distract her and just holding her still on her lead but it makes no difference really. Never had a dog like this before and not sure why she's like it - i thought perhaps a protective thing for myself and what she thinks is her pack, or a form of fear agression.

It is embarrassing but i have to walk her and we do have to go to places where we meet other dogs and owners but i try to give a wide berth (often makes her worse) and tell her to be quiet or just keep walking very purposely onwards. I do apologise for her behaviour when out.
any suggestions on how to cure greatly appreciated.

just to note that when i am at shows with her she is an angel - its like i have taken a different dog, very quiet and no barking! My husband couldn't believe it.

My Female lab was very defensive on the lead, bark, lunge it was horrible and embarrassing!! it's only with other dogs but it was a front as she would never attack, she was attacked twice by different dogs, both times needing veterinary treatment to be stitched and patched up! so i can understand why she went nuts, as both times she was attacked on the lead, and she couldn't run away. We are just getting there now!! it's taken along time!! she has off days (don't we all) but we can walk past dogs without getting any reaction now. She has doggy mates that she plays well with, we went to training had  one to one, also classes as their controlled, also i had to walk her separately from my other dog, so i could correct her and not teach my boy any bad habits!!

Hayley

I have a terrier and a Golden Retriever. Both are rescues but the GR was only 10 weeks old and has a wonderful temperament even though his socialisation was a bit late in starting due to his delayed entry out into the big wide world.

Our terrier was around 5 months old when we got him and he had not been socialised at all. He is the noisiest dog I have ever owned and yes I know that feeling of embarrassment when a manic dog is standing on it's hind legs barking and sounding as though he is ready to take your arm off :O He is very hard work but, if I never take him out and let him meet other dogs ( on his lead I might add) how am I ever going to get him socialised? He barks when he sees people or dogs in the distance, but is very friendly when he actually meets them. Very slowly he is learning that most other dogs are not a threat and most people are fine but it is a long slow process. However aware you are of what is going on around you and are prepared for his next behaviour there are always things that take you by surprise - a bird flying out of the undergrowth, a pine cone dropping off a tree etc . It is annoying when people let their dogs come up to dogs on leads but it is probably something that is always going to happen so are trying to cope with every eventuality. It doesn't help that he appears to be such a slow learner :) or perhaps we have just been spoiled by our other dog's capabilities for quick learning :)

Sometimes those people whom might come across as bad or irresponsible owners are just ordinary people who are trying their best to deal with the problems their dogs might have. Rescues can come with all sorts of baggage :)

Hi Pinkbrady

Thats a coincidence, as when i was out walking my two boys the day before last we were going our usual walk and a woman approached with a border terrier on a lead (extendable one) , my puppy was on his lead and my other boy off lead minding his own business.
As we got close she let the Terrier go full length on its extendable lead, it charged right into my boy who is a big lad , he has no interest in other dogs, as he went to sniff it , it jumped up and bit his cheek very hard!  He yelped and ran past quick.

The sstupid woman then let it come towards my puppy at which I grabbed hold of its lead and said "oh no , its biting my pup as well". She laughed!! and said how naughty it was, I told her she was very lucky as if my other dog would have been of a different temperament her dog could have lost its head. I told her she should be trying to stop that before her dog gets injured or if she cant to keep it on a shorter lead.

At no point did she apologise and i got the impression she thought just because it was small it could do as it liked, it was a nasty little creature and it would have served it right if my dog would have give it a bite back!

I had this happen at ringcraft with a toy breed going off its head at the Deerhound I was handling. Owner thought it was funny"Oh that dog could eat you" So why let it behave like that!!!!

I had a small terrier type come flying out of its garden and attacked the four dogs I was walking. Its owner came out and thought it amusing that her dog was taking on 4 dogs, I gave her dog a couple of good kicks before it would back off, I doubt she was overly impressed by that but mine were going mad, two barking and lunging and two trying to get away !!

Fagan used to love small dogs, his best friend at the dog sitters was "Onion" a westie.  Nowdays he tends to give them a wideberth because he has been snapped at so many times :(

to harley

in that case though i'm sure your apologetic for his behaviour, not aggressive like the people mentioned above. i disagree with the statements of people that theres no excuse for an aggressive dog, sometimes there really is (has been attacked, abused etc). it takes time and a lot of hard work to fix that in them. there is no excuse for poor manners about it though. one of my (now deceased) dogs was not keen on other dogs (had been attacked), he was not even particularly aggressive but as a big breed i wasn't taking chances. i kept him on lead for walks unless somewhere VERY secluded and if a dog approached i would shout to he owner that could they please keep their dog away as he didn;t like other dogs.  if he did start woofing etc i would be extremely apologetic.

> Oh that dog could eat you"

idiot. wonder how funny she'd find it if it had.

We have 2 cairn terriers who live near us. One of them Winston has adopted as his best friend!! They look so funny together little and large. Those 2 are always very well behaved but then I know that the owners spend alot of time socialising them as puppies which I believe is very important.

It's really upsetting that some people are giving the impression that Border Terriers are little monsters.Yes,mine like to bark,but there's not an aggressive bone in their bodies,and have never had any problems with this in that regard.

I've only met one nasty-natured Border - all the rest have been delightful dogs.

I hope you don't mind me asking, Ktee, but the new flags have got me curious - how come your IP is Australian when your profile says you live in Dorset? I'm famed for being a computer dunce, and I didn't know we had so much choice of providers - who are you with?

i think that its again an owner problem. the one and only border i knew was a cheeky little b*gger but was such a cutey. not aggressive at all (appart to sheep??) but was very very naughty