Just came across this site which gives an excellent explanation on what you should be looking for when you go to buy a Labrador pup

Gives comprehensive imformation on all the health checks and what to look out for when talking with breeders. Also gives an insight into what happens when you buy a pup that has been bred without health checks and what the implications could be ;-)

http://www.lab-health.co.uk/index.html

Sue and Wendy WILL be pleased with that link Lucy, it's a very good site :-)

oh i'm welling up here... they should have sites like that for all breeds and make them very obvious to people. oh god some of those stories are sad.

Oh my goodness, just stumbled across this post, I am one half of Sue and Wendy, and we are very grateful for the positive feedback.

There are posters on the homepage of the site that people can use to highlight the need for parents of future labrador puppies to be health-tested.

Thank you
Sue

Hi Sue

I only came across this yesterday myself and think it is a really good informative and useful site.

Well done and lets hope it helps a few people make informed decision when getting a pup.

Lucy
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A very good site BUT, I feel it and all the stories are in a way a little misleading.

The statements almost all imply that if you buy from good health tested stock you will not get these health problems (OCD/HD). Especially given that HD in particular is 'polygenic' and cannot be pinned down to being simply hereditary. That unfortunately simply isn't true. I don't know too much about OCD but I do know a lot about HD, having had several GSDs with the problem.  Two of my dogs with HD come from very good stock with very very good hip scores by sire and dam and grandparents. Even the KC have admitted that the Hip Scoring programme hasn't solved the problem, which is why they took DNA samples from dogs with and without about 2 years ago, the results of which have yet to be published.

I have no doubt that the intention behind these stories is a good one, it may help to ensure people DO go to a good breeder. I feel for every one of these dogs and owners, having been there myself - but good breeding isn't the only answer unfortunately.

K

No good breeding is a start and HD is hereditary and environmental. Yes I will be very interested in the results of the study. Dudley my Lab was from good Hip scored parents and proven lines and she has severe HD.

Perhaps the site does need a bit more on the environmental side of bring your puppy up but to start to educate can only be good.

I am sorry you have read it that way, because that is NOT the sites' intention;

Its overall aim is to try and prevent people buying labradors irresponsibly.   It is probably little different in other breeds, but the labs increasing popularity sadly has them seen as 'money spinners' and there are people out there deliberately breeding without health tests and spinning naive puppy buyers massive yarns on everything from health tests to KC registration (and probably lots of people inbetween) - there are also some doing so because they know no better :( (should ignorance be an excuse? - not really - but no-one is perfect).

Like you, I know only too well that even with the best care in the world, there are no guarantees - sometimes there is also no logical or justifable cause.

If you read the health testing section, it does show that there are other causal factors for HD - and the section on ED also shows that environmental factors can play an insignificant role.  Some of the stores even clearly state that they do not know if they MAY have unwittingly played a role in the condition.

As with everything in life, there are NO guarantees, what we do know is that many of these dogs came from truly irresponsible breeders; there is another element that if a 'novice' is buying from an 'irresponsible' breeder', then the likelihood is that they are also not giving the new owners guidance on how best to rear their puppies to reduce any long term risk to their joints, so they could unwittingly exacerbate any conditions through ignorance :(

Hopefully by educating people into buying responsibly we can massively reduce the problems in our breed.

Just as with buying a car from a responsible dealer or a dodgy one, they hold less and greater risks of problems respectively, but just as you can be unlucky with the responsible car dealer, you can also be lucky with the dodgy one - and buying a puppy is sadly little different, other than you are dealing with living creatures.

Yes as Sue has said look at the statistics compared to other breeds so the implication are far more wider reaching :-(

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/887

To try and clarify the situation, I have added a statement on the health tests page

It is important to point out that buying from health tested parents significantly reduces the risk of future problems, it does not however provide a health guarantee.  Your breeder should also give you guidance on early joint management for your new puppy to further reduce any risks.

http://www.lab-health.co.uk/tests.html

Charlie, the Bionic Pup, is owned by Wendy the other half of the website partnership, and was set up following Charlie having bi-lateral THR's when he was just one year old.

We are hoping, that in addition to encouraging people to buy responsibly, it also gives some hope to those that find themselves in this terrible position.

I would like to add that we actively encourage contributions for the site - if you are providing valuable health related information, we include a full acknowledgement and a link to a website of your choice.

Many thanks
Sue

In one of my paragraphs above re:  environmental factors - it should read - Signficant Role - unfortunately, it appears I am unable to edit my post.

With regards to Labrador Numbers, they now form ONE FIFTH of the top 20 most popular registrations with the KC - and have done year on year for quite some time - this does not even consider the number of pups that are unregistered - sadly, of which there are many :( so yes, it is a huge problem.

>but good breeding isn't the only answer unfortunately.

Surely it's a step in the right direction though? Or do you disagree?

Anything that encourages puppy buyers to steer well away from undesirable, uncaring and money-grabbing low-life scum of the earth breeders :-O is a good thing in my books :-)

All the stories on http://lab-health.co.uk are fact, not ficticious in any way...........

Jo

I don't think she disagrees but has been an unfortunate owner in a different breed that has the same health problems :-(

Lucy
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Jolene - Of course I don't disagree! and it was not my intention to indiscrimately criticise. The site and all it's intentions are good and anything which can direct people to a good breeder is a fantastic step in the right direction. What I was saying was that it could be read that the only reason these dogs had such terrible problems was because of bad breeding, and unfortunately it does happen with good breeding too. So I think it is important to give the full picture. My first dog was bought from 'Loot' in the days when I didn't know any better and I castigated myself bitterly when she had the most appalling health problems. Next time I went to a good breeder, researched hip scores in the line etc, and had pretty much convinced myself that I would not have the same problem BECAUSE I had done everything right this time. You know what's coming - I had her hip scored just to set my mind at rest and bingo, she had moderate HD. Please read my original post again to be clear on what I was saying. I am appalled by bad breeding and 'puppy farming'  In fact I am trying to get my local paper to print an article I would like to write about puppy farming and why people shouldn't buy a puppy from pet shops etc. Don't know if they will agree to it yet though, as it may seriously upset some of the people that advertise in it!

Sue, I am really pleased that you are so responsive and have added that statement to your website. I know it's a double edged sword and you don't want to discourage people by saying it can happen in other circumstances too, but, particularly bearing in mind that it is largely aimed at people who may not be very well informed about health and therefore aiming to educate, I do think it helps to clarify that these problems do not only occur in poorly bred dogs, but as you say, that the risk is vastly reduced by using a good breeder.

I looked at the weblink, and that is a frightening number of registrations for the Labrador - I do see why you are so worried by it. Maybe you should contact Many Tears website and put a link through to them so that people can see the poor dogs used for breeding by puppy farmers too Sadly many of those are Labradors, especially chocolate.

Thank you for taking my comments as they were intended, and I wish you well and support you in educating people.

K

Sadly many of those are Labradors, especially chocolate Yes I know :-(