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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Grumpy GR
- By jiggy [gb] Date 01.02.08 16:47 UTC
Hi everyone :)
Im new to the site and would like to ask your advice :)
I have an 8 month old GR dog and his behaviour over the past 10 days has slowly got worse.  I have had him since he was 8 weeks old and he has been an absoloute angel.  He was so easy to house train and has always been brilliant with my two boys (6 and 10).  We went through a phase when he was tiny of him pinching things and running off with them and just general puppy stuff.... nothing major.  
To try and keep it brief..... he has started taking things again and running behind a settee we have in the kitchen area.  If I go after him and look over the settee I get growled at.  If I try to take the item off him then I REALLY get growled at.  I have been swapping the item he has for a treat and that works fine but I have noticed that it has made him increase his efforts and he is taking things more than ever now !!!  I have moved the settee backwards so that he cant get behind there anymore as well.  He is also growling while waiting for his food to be prepared and he has started to growl at my husband if he gets too close to me sometimes. 
We attend weekly training classes and he has always done brilliantly up until the last 2 lessons and its like he doesnt know how to behave any more!!  My instructor has been great and I am going to have some 1 to 1 lessons as well.  Walking has also become a problem :( He has always walked by my side no problems but now is really dragging me around and has knocked me down twice in the past week!!
I know he is at that age now where he is going to start testing me and that is fine (Im no pushover )  but he is driving me bonkers at the moment and any advice would be greatly appreciated :)  Its taken me forever to type this as he has raided the kitchen worktops, taken my sons school work and the batteries out of the tv remote !!!!
- By Goldmali Date 01.02.08 19:55 UTC
Hi!

First off, you're right about his age. He's now entering the "Kevin stage" (remember the teenager Harry Enfield played on TV that was always grumpy and moody?) and yes, a lot of Goldens go through it. Keep up with the training.

Secondly, to make life easier, make sure you put as many items as only possible out of his reach. In other words, get rid of temptation whenever possible. I have a 13 month old Golden and I've recently virtually cleared everything off my worktops as she suddenly realised that she could get things down from there. She would even take plates and glasses off the draining board! The good news i,s they DO grow out of it. The bad news is, it can take up to age 2 years.

There is a good article here that deals with resource guarding, which is what you are seeing:
http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/resource-guarding/

If he growls at you over food, start ADDING bits of food to his bowl whilst he is eating. That way he learns that you being near the food doesn't mean the food will vanish, it means the opposite.

If he pulls a lot on the lead, use a head collar such as a Gentle Leader.It makes things so much easier. He will dislike it at first but dogs do get used to it, and I have found with mine that after a while (even if it is after a year or so sometimes) they stop pulling and can go back to wearing normal collars instead.

Good luck!
- By Freds Mum [gb] Date 01.02.08 20:35 UTC
Is it his toys he is guarding as well? I would say take them away from them and give them to him as  a play thing, not something he has all the time. If he sees them as "his" because they're on the floor all the time then that could be another contributing factor to his agression.
- By karenclynes [gb] Date 01.02.08 21:05 UTC Edited 01.02.08 21:10 UTC
Hi,

Guarding can be symptomatic of stress - is threre anything else changed in his routine or has anything unusual happened that you can think of that could have triggered this, even if you wouldn't have thought they could be related?  I would also advise that as this has come on suddenly it would be worth getting him checked over by the vets.  I have a girl that becomes guardy if she is feeling unwell or if she is feeling stressed.

Can I just ask has he has his food bowl taken away from him whilst eating before?  As this can actually cause a dog to guard his food and may be why he's growling whilst waiting for his food.  A dog that is guarding is doing so because he is afraid he's going to have whatever he has taken away from him - so if someone then goes and does this when the dog is feeling the need to guard he is just being proved right and will usually just up the guarding stakes.

I would advise being as non confrontational as possible and manage the situations as much as possible, for example put aways as many things that he might steal as possible.  Maybe try hand feeding him his meals so that he learns that you are the source of his food not someone he has to worry might take it away.  You could also try and dividing his meal up into four or five - put one section in his bowl and then when he's finished go back and put next section in and so on, so that way he learns that you near his bowl means more goodies not anything negative.

In the meantime I would teach him a strong "leave" so that you don't need to get into a situation of confrontation.  That way if he has something of value you can ask him to leave it and reward him for doing so.  Also work on teachijng him a strong recall so that you can call him out from hidden places rather than having to go and approach him behind the sofa or under a table etc, where he is more likely to feel trapped and the need to guard.

It might be worth getting someone professional in (who uses reward based methods) to give you some guidance on this, as these problems can easily escalate if not treated in the right manner. 

Good luck.
- By jiggy [gb] Date 02.02.08 11:41 UTC
Thank you all for your help :)
and in reply to your questions......

is threre anything else changed in his routine
The one thing that has happened in the past 10 days is that I have found out that I am going into hospital in 4 weeks for a major operation.  I'm a little apprehensive about it and he could be picking up on that.

has he has his food bowl taken away from him whilst eating before
No this have never happened.  He is completely fine when he is eating and I could quite easily put my hands in his bowl and he wouldnt mind.  The growling has been when he is waiting for his food (It is soaked) and its not a nasty growl, its more of a "hurry up and get on with it" growl.

I would teach him a strong "leave"
I am working really hard on this :)  but I think its going to take a while !!

get rid of temptation whenever possible
This is what I have started to do.  I am going to clear all the kitchen worktops !!

use a head collar such as a Gentle Leader
I have just been out and bought one :)  He's not going to be happy!! 

Is it his toys he is guarding as well?
No. He doesnt have access to his toys unless I am playing with him.  Then it is me who starts and finishes the game.  He is great with his toys :)

Thanks again everyone :)  I'll let you know how it goes

Jiggy
- By Brainless [gb] Date 02.02.08 12:29 UTC
Sounds like you may have a talker (in some situations) rather than a growler.  Lots of dogs are very vocal in various situations, with all manner of grumps, chortles and rumbles that are nothing to do with warning growls.

Have you thought about the NILIF http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm approach to teach him his place in a non confrontational way, some of which you are already doing.
- By karenclynes [gb] Date 02.02.08 13:49 UTC
Hi,

He could very well be picking up on your understandable apprehension - our doggies can be very sensitive to changes in us, some more so than others :-) I hope all goes well with you op!  GR's are known for being talkers and his grumbling when waiting for food sounds more like talking than growling :-)
- By jiggy [gb] Date 02.02.08 15:44 UTC
Ah !! I hadnt thought that it might be more talking :)
Up until now he has never been very vocal but thinking about it now, some of the "growling" could definately be talking. 
When he was taking things behind the settee it was definately growling but just moving the settee back were he cant get behind it seems to be doing the trick :)
And I have just taken him for his first walk in a Gentle Leader and I cant believe the difference !!! We had about 2 mins of him trying to get it off then he was fine !!  He walked all the way up to the field by my side and then went off and had a good run, walked all the way back by my side and now he's fast asleep !! :)

Thanks again for the advice and I will definately have a look at the links that have been provided :)

Jiggy
- By Harley Date 02.02.08 16:23 UTC
We have a terrier who emits a very low growling noise when he is contented - he has a naturally high pitched voice :)

To the uninitiated it sounds as though he is getting ready to take your arm off but is actually a sign of contentment - sometimes he sounds as though he is purring like a cat :)
- By peaches1 [gb] Date 02.02.08 19:12 UTC
One of my goldens is a talker too. And it could be mistaken for a growl by people who dont know her. She mainly talks at dinnertime, walk time and when we are going to a show and she sees her bag. If hes not snarling or looks threatening when he does it, id say its quite possible he just likes a good chat!!!
mel.
- By georgepig [gb] Date 02.02.08 19:49 UTC
On the other extreme my 14 year old collie x literally screams and squeals when she goes out for a walk for the first few mins :-o
At first we thought she was in pain but now we realise it's just excitement!!  It's sweet really I suppose but it was alarming when she did it the first time
- By Goldmali Date 02.02.08 22:47 UTC
Great to hear that the Gentle Leader worked -and yes, Goldens often do talk. (And a typical situation is when they are happy and carry a toy in their mouths.) I didn't even think of that as I'm so used to it myself! :)
- By Brainless [gb] Date 03.02.08 02:17 UTC
A dog I bred does some quite ferocious growling with lips firmly closed and tail wagging, he will lay down on his back doing it if you let him, he does it most to his especial favourite people.  Needless to say I had to teach him not to do it in the ring :D
- By shadbolts [gb] Date 04.02.08 09:54 UTC
Our Golden talks like this especially when she has a toy in her mouth that she wants you to play.  She will come up to you and nudge you while growling with ours it's fairly obvious she's playing as her tail is going like mad.  I'd be a bit careful if he is not obviously playing and is guarding instead.  If he is guarding as others have said you need to in teach him who is in charge and that he should leave if commanded to.  It is also a good idea to do this sooner rather than later.
- By jiggy [gb] Date 04.02.08 20:36 UTC
Thanks again everyone :)
I think its probably mostly talking but there has been some guarding as well.  I am working really hard with the "leave" command and he is getting the hang of it :)

Jiggy
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Grumpy GR

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